Is Mitch a good Quarterback (Kollmann Video)

[Urblock]

Technically yes, but it has basically devolved in an argument between two of the worst posters on CCS. Still going, kinda, readable, no.

Hey man I'm not in this

 

[Starion]

Can't believe I read 8 pages into this thread. Started off decent before the usual derails about other QBs, PFF stats debate, and childish fighting.


We can all reasonably agree about Mitch...

1. Showing progress. Has yet to peak. Also a reasonably acceptable floor. Has weapons & coaching at his disposal.
2. Not THERE yet, but doing "okay to pretty good".
3. As such, arguably not YET at the level of top tier QBs, including some drafted lower than #2
4. Began NFL journey with less experience. (interesting note: despite few STARTS, he played more SNAPS than many successful NFL starters, past & current)
5. Including college, he's had 3 different offenses in his last 3 years. This will be his first full offseason NOT starting over and actually getting all that time to bring it to the next level. We can agree the O should improve.
6. Def. missed some easy passes in 2018
7. Def. made some awesome passes in 2018
8. Can run better than most if needed, if designed, & if it's "what the DEF gives them".
9. Is a better leader than this team has seen in quite a while.
10. 2019 schedule appears harder than 2018.

To be debated and seen with on field results: (replies matching the above)

1. Extent of his ceiling TBD.
2. Preseason games & practices should NOT be overly scrutinized and used as proof of progress. Often vanilla and trying shit out to see what works & doesn't. Every year fans bitch & moan at lackluster preseason showings. It's dumb.
3. NA
4. NA
5. How much will this O improve? Nagy said 3 years needed. Can Mitch "master" this in 2? Or at least shift from scripted plays to reacting vs. thinking? IMHO this learning curve was a major factor in his miscues and poor plays last season. It's hard to focus on accuracy when not 100% certain on where/when the throw is going.
6. I'd say 1-3 of those missed passes nearly every game coulda/shoulda/woulda = TDs (vs. FGs & punts). MAJOR difference when all 5 losses were by 1 score. (Only NE was by 8)
7. How much we each feel about Mitch playing it safe vs. pushing into tight windows. We'll argue that forever. TBD how it plays out. I don't feel as freaked out by him vs. Cutler or Rex though. MT10 can protect the ball. Zero INTs in last 3 games of 2018 BTW
8. Mitch isn't a run first QB and isn't Michael Vick. He CAN force a D to account for him, which will give receivers & RBs a bit more room to get open vs. LBs & CBs. How much? TBD. I don't see them running him by design much though with exception of short yardage & goal line trickery. Just my opinion. So many other talents to use > risk MT10 health.
9. Calm & sorta quiet personality. Has some balls to pull off a straight faced Ditka costume at Halloween week and answer serious football questions without cracking. Can chug a beer. Still says "um" a lot.
10. Based on final record of 2018, last years total win % was 0.520. Based on final record of 2018, this year's upcoming schedule has a win % of 0.520!! Exact same dudes. No reason to freak out like there's an automatic 1-2 L added just because NO and KC are on there.

Bonus nuggets:

• We'll have to keep arguing about the run game until we see it for real vs. GB & beyond. IMO it'll be vastly improved and DM will go nuts like Kareem Hunt v2.0, but that's just me.
• Logically every arrow points up for this offense. Nagy ran more than most teams last year, even after Mitch checking many of those into passes. I'd like to see the stats on that vs. passes checked into runs, but the secret sauce should stay a secret.
• CCS will argue about strength of Offensive line for eternity. IMO they're underrated. Can't wait to see how Bars pans out. Cool to get 2nd round talent basically for free as UDFA, much less a "known talent" due to Harry @ Nortre Dame.
• Salary cap & future of the roster. This'll be interesting to see. Trust in Pace still varies a shit ton around here. Cool thing is, this culture and clear success is making players want to come join the Bears and stay Bears = hometown discounts!! We're used to guys getting paid > market value to play for a loser (ie. OAK, MIA, WASH, NYJ, etc). This now adds up to bonus cap space & advantages in getting & keeping FAs.

 

[Starion]

Quick note on the topic of all this Watson arguing about time to release, etc.

It IS a team sport. Mitch battled having the absolute WORST WR corps in the league as a rookie. He also had by far the most predictable offense in years while on the most injured team in years. (both statistically proven).

Not sure why you guys have been arguing for pages & derailing multiple threads ever since mitch was drafted like it's ALL on the QB for being shitty OR 2) all on the situation. With claims of having injured WRs and coaching somehow = flaming for "giving Watson or Mitch, etc. a pass".

Can it not be a bit of both the QB and his situation?!? ...Especially for inexperienced QBs still learning an NFL playbook? Seems this argument is kinda pointless; especially because so many of us want to be so QUICK TO JUDGE. It takes years to assess a QB for these exact reasons to average out.


"A simile is like a metaphor":
Just like us as kids. It's harder to learn & get good grades with a shitty teacher, and noisy classroom/no good place to study, much less being taught the wrong lessons (Fox's Offense = copying off a dumb kid's test).

Eventually its still on each of use to graduate and make something of ourselves. Can't blame others forever, but we all know there's advantages & disadvantages that factor in.

 

[Leomaz]

???

You're so fucking mad that Trubisky is the third best QB of the three.

Bwahahahahaha

 

[Leomaz]

95% of GM’s would rightfully trade their starting QB and multiple first round picks for Mahomes. I think you’re way off base.

Prove it.

 

[Leomaz]

Ahh...so the good things are all because of him. And the not so good because of the scrubs around him.

Got it....lol

This is the perfect summary of the Watson fanboys like @bearmick who has actually called him the greatest player in the world. 3years in and already supplanted by Mahomes.

 

[Toast88]

Trubisky has plenty of weapons.

Watson has plenty of weapons.

Mahomes has plenty of weapons.

Cutler had plenty of weapons.


I truly hate the splitting of hairs over who's better because their O-Line is worse, receivers are worse, etc. It's dumb as shit when they all have reasonable weapons that good and great quarterbacks can utilize.

 

[Midway Fields]

Prove it.

All you need are eyes.

 

[Bearly]

95% of GM’s would rightfully trade their starting QB and multiple first round picks for Mahomes. I think you’re way off base.

A redraft would have the vast majority of teams jockeying for position. Thing is, Mahomes success isn't ridiculously surprising. I described his arm as generational and easily the player with the highest ceiling. His question marks had to do with him assimilating an NFL O and cleaning up some very bad habits. He was also devalued because of the system he came from which has fooled evaluators in the past.

 

[Midway Fields]

A redraft would have the vast majority of teams jockeying for position. Thing is, Mahomes success isn't ridiculously surprising. I described his arm as generational and easily the player with the highest ceiling. His question marks had to do with him assimilating an NFL O and cleaning up some very bad habits. He was also devalued because of the system he came from which has fooled evaluators in the past.

Right and after last year there are no more question marks.

He would have more trade value of any player in the NFL.

He has the look of an all time great.

 

[Bearly]

Dude just keeps coming.

 

[bearmick]

Have to agree with Midway on Mahomes, he's just ridiculous. Obviously he was the high boom or bust coming out of school; crazy talent but history told us Air Raid QBs don't pan out in the pros. But the NFL is changing, and Mahomes is the prototype contemporary QB.

Even a Watson fanboy like myself has to admit that if they were re-drafted today, Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky would be the order.

 

[Black Rainbow]

I'm going to have an absolute meltdown if Trubisky is still over-throwing in preseason...lol.

 

[Black Rainbow]

Have to agree with Midway on Mahomes, he's just ridiculous. Obviously he was the high boom or bust coming out of school; crazy talent but history told us Air Raid QBs don't pan out in the pros. But the NFL is changing, and Mahomes is the prototype contemporary QB.

Even a Watson fanboy like myself has to admit that if they were re-drafted today, Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky would be the order.

Watch Erin Rodgers get injured and DeShone Kizer starts dropping bombs. This place would implode..lol.

 

[Bearly]

I'm going to have an absolute meltdown if Trubisky is still over-throwing in preseason...lol.

We know, lol.

 

[Bearly]

Watch Ro


Watch Erin Rodgers get injured and DeShone Kizer starts dropping bombs. This place would implode..lol.

That happened against us in the 1st game last year. Played about a quarter, poorly. Played almost all of the last game. Year rating was 40.

 

[Toast88]

Mahomes looked like Cutler coming out of college. He obviously had a huge arm and was a smart kid. But the scheme they ran at Texas Tech really kind of kept his strengths from being able to shine through (going through the reads and making quick decisions based on recognizing defenses mid-play, even in the face of pressure), which is fine because that was the design of his college air raid offense---makes sense.

But when you paired him with the perfect coach and some awesome weapons, and allow his strengths to actually shine through, you realize how special he is. It's easy to see how people missed it. What exactly would they have looked at in his college tape to show you what we can see now in his 2018 tape? There's really not much. The Chiefs did their homework, rolled the dice, and won. Good for them.

 

[bearmick]

Watch Erin Rodgers get injured and DeShone Kizer starts dropping bombs. This place would implode..lol.

I think Kizer retired from football after a quarter on the field with Mack.

 

[Bearly]

28 teams at Mahomes pro day, shot up the boards before the draft so teams were starting to see something once they got him alone in individual drills and interviews.

 

[Black Rainbow]

Mahomes looked like Cutler coming out of college. He obviously had a huge arm and was a smart kid. But the scheme they ran at Texas Tech really kind of kept his strengths from being able to shine through (going through the reads and making quick decisions based on recognizing defenses mid-play, even in the face of pressure), which is fine because that was the design of his college air raid offense---makes sense.

But when you paired him with the perfect coach and some awesome weapons, and allow his strengths to actually shine through, you realize how special he is. It's easy to see how people missed it. What exactly would they have looked at in his college tape to show you what we can see now in his 2018 tape? There's really not much. The Chiefs did their homework, rolled the dice, and won. Good for them.

It makes me wonder what Pace saw in Trubisky in one season at NC that put him ahead of Mahomes with 2 1/2 seasons at Texas Tech that was worth trading up to get Trubisky.