Is what Manny Machado did dirty?

[kapooncha]

Why are you comparing a good clean wholesome guy with two woman beaters?

Machado wholesome? Lol

 

[CSF77]

Not sure what you're saying here. Don't see what happening? Guys making dumb mistakes? There's plenty of examples I could bring out of the "playing the game the right way" variety if you want. Granted none of them other than the aforementioned Rizzo slide quite come to the level of physical contact. However, we've seen both Contreras and Baez have moments the team called them out for not playing the game the right way.

Regardless, to me it comes down to whether or not you think he was trying to hurt the guy. I don't see it. If you're trying to hurt a guy there's better ways. And because I don't see it that leads me to believe it was either unintentional or it was some sort of misguided attempt to send a message. If it's the latter I don't really approve of that either but I think that's an entirely different thing than a "dirty" play. As an example, you'll see several times a year pitchers throwing behind batters yet you rarely see them called "dirty." I don't agree with that behavior either but my point is that behavior is different than a pitcher throwing at someone's head which I would call dirty.

That's where I think you have vet players around to stop young people from making dumb mistakes. You'll notice the cubs don't throw at guys. And you'll also notice for the most part they play the game the right way and when guys like Contreras/Baez make mistakes they own it and get the behavior corrected. Who's telling Machado anything in Baltimore? They don't have a winning culture and he's one of the few guys who actually performed. LA is a bit different but they have a lot of young guys on that team. And we've seen how they've not really handled Puig very well either. And like I said, he's 26. If he's indeed a good kid as the report I saw suggests then you put him around the right people and all this dumb crap goes away.

Category: I like this player as a Cub and will find every excuse available.

 

[CSF77]

Why are you comparing a good clean wholesome guy with two woman beaters?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports...ing-dirty-after-late-slide-int-1829875292/amp

 

[beckdawg]

Category: I like this player as a Cub and will find every excuse available.

Not really like that. Case in point, it's not like I was in favor of them trading for Chapman. I'm sure there's other examples of bad character guys I've disliked. Hell, even Russell who I've said I wouldn't release isn't because I'm choosing him over morality. The reason i don't think they should release/trade Russell this offseason is because its a bad value. I've repeatedly said if you want to deal him do it in july.

So, believe that if you want but it's not how I feel. Machado hasn't done anything crazy like ron artest going into the stands. And as far as I'm aware he didn't even have a reputation prior to this of being "dirty." So, if this is what you're going to pin being dirty on I just think it's weak. As I said, I don't agree with what went down if it's intentional but I also didn't agree with Rizzo sliding into the pirate's catcher. Am I obligated to think Rizzo is dirty now too?

And I'm not sure why you seem to care because you seem to have no issue with pitchers throwing at batters which personally I find way more dirty. Speaking of which, I never really liked Lackey because of the way he played the game and by in large he pitched well for the cubs.

 

[CSF77]

Not really like that. Case in point, it's not like I was in favor of them trading for Chapman. I'm sure there's other examples of bad character guys I've disliked. Hell, even Russell who I've said I wouldn't release isn't because I'm choosing him over morality. The reason i don't think they should release/trade Russell this offseason is because its a bad value. I've repeatedly said if you want to deal him do it in july.

So, believe that if you want but it's not how I feel. Machado hasn't done anything crazy like ron artest going into the stands. And as far as I'm aware he didn't even have a reputation prior to this of being "dirty." So, if this is what you're going to pin being dirty on I just think it's weak. As I said, I don't agree with what went down if it's intentional but I also didn't agree with Rizzo sliding into the pirate's catcher. Am I obligated to think Rizzo is dirty now too?

And I'm not sure why you seem to care because you seem to have no issue with pitchers throwing at batters which personally I find way more dirty. Speaking of which, I never really liked Lackey because of the way he played the game and by in large he pitched well for the cubs.

Lackey was an ass hole. Love it or hate it he didn’t give a damn.
Little diffrent then taking short cuts to victory.

Man vs boy

 

[beckdawg]

Lackey was an ass hole. Love it or hate it he didn’t give a damn.
Little diffrent then taking short cuts to victory.

Man vs boy

I don't see how Machado is "taking short cuts to victory." But either way your Man vs boy comment is my entire point. Machado is still a young dumb kid who seemingly didn't get much help from vets growing up in Baltimore. All I'm saying is he doesn't strike me as say the reputation Matt Harvey had in NY as an asshole that you couldn't deal with. Maybe I'm wrong but that's not the vibe I get from him. I just think he's someone who needs more of a vet presence around him to tell him to cut out the stupid shit.

I just don't think Machado is say Milton Bradley here. If you wanna call what he did dirty that's your opinion but it's really not the important question. The important question is does that behavior continue. I don't think it will if you put him with the right group. If you think it's innate in him and you can't teach it out then fine I can see the argument against signing him but i don't personally hold that belief.

So, I'm not sure what I'm suppose to say here. If we're going to condemn players for every questionable play they make there's going to be a lot of dirty baseball players. The vast majority of them aren't Ben Zobrist or Bryant.

 

[truthbedamned]

No doubt in my mind this is on purpose. Look at how he drags his left foot.

 

[CSF77]

I don't see how Machado is "taking short cuts to victory." But either way your Man vs boy comment is my entire point. Machado is still a young dumb kid who seemingly didn't get much help from vets growing up in Baltimore. All I'm saying is he doesn't strike me as say the reputation Matt Harvey had in NY as an asshole that you couldn't deal with. Maybe I'm wrong but that's not the vibe I get from him. I just think he's someone who needs more of a vet presence around him to tell him to cut out the stupid shit.

I just don't think Machado is say Milton Bradley here. If you wanna call what he did dirty that's your opinion but it's really not the important question. The important question is does that behavior continue. I don't think it will if you put him with the right group. If you think it's innate in him and you can't teach it out then fine I can see the argument against signing him but i don't personally hold that belief.

So, I'm not sure what I'm suppose to say here. If we're going to condemn players for every questionable play they make there's going to be a lot of dirty baseball players. The vast majority of them aren't Ben Zobrist or Bryant.

MB was crazy coming in and had history. Cub fans are for the most part. ‘Not the kindest’. And ‘opinionated ‘

Fact he was fine in Texas after blowing up in LAD then blew up with the Cubs then went to Seattle and kept under the radar.

Feeding the monster and big market makes it national. When you have a time bomb it tends to happen.

Machado should know better. If it would have stayed at attempting interface earlier in blocking a throw then it would have stayed under the radar. Then he had to launch a field goal into the first baseman’s leg?

Not the same thing as MB.

MB was hated and fans can be the worst kind of ass hole out there

 

[beckdawg]

No doubt in my mind this is on purpose. Look at how he drags his left foot.

Counter point... what is the 1B doing just hovering there for 2-3 seconds? He catches the ball and machado makes 3 steps but the guy doesn't even move. That's my issue with this. People don't even bring up the fact he could have easily moved out of the way just by taking one step forward after catching the ball. In fact machado takes a step toward the foul line before they collide. The last step before he hits him is easily a foot outside Machado's normal path.

Also, as for dragging his left foot he's trying to slow down. If he's trying to hurt him why is his first reaction to lift his left foot back upon contact? If you're trying to hurt him you following through with more force than that. What it looks to me like is someone who accidentally collided with a guy he thought was going to move.

The fact of the matter is the runner has the right to the space above the bag and the 1B's foot is blocking over half the width of the bag. I don't necessarily think the 1B was doing anything sinister either but he's just as much at fault for this as Machado is. In order for Machado to totally avoid him his left food would have had to go 2 feet to the right and just barely touch the farthest right 1/4 of the bag. Do you know how awkward that would have been at a jogging speed? He probably would have fallen down. Seriously go try jogging and then make your left foot go where your right foot's path is.

 

[chibears55]

Lol at those complaining about or not wanting Machado

He signs with the Cubs you all will be rooting hard for him and buying his Jersey..lol

Just like those who didn't want Chapman did

 

[beckdawg]

Just like those who didn't want Chapman did

I take exception to that I still don't like that trade.

 

[chibears55]

I take exception to that I still don't like that trade.

Not saying you had to like the trade or like the guy just saying if the cubs makes a trade or signing that brings in a top talent that help them win, youre gonna root for him to play well and be glad he on their team helping them win

 

[beckdawg]

Not saying you had to like the trade or like the guy just saying if the cubs makes a trade or signing that brings in a top talent that help them win, youre gonna root for him to play well and be glad he on their team helping them win

Fair enough but i was mostly just giving you hell

 

[chibears55]

Fair enough but i was mostly just giving you hell

I know..lol
Use to it
Lol

 

[Omeletpants]

This thread went to shit as soon as Milton Bradley was invoked

 

[CSF77]

Counter point... what is the 1B doing just hovering there for 2-3 seconds? He catches the ball and machado makes 3 steps but the guy doesn't even move. That's my issue with this. People don't even bring up the fact he could have easily moved out of the way just by taking one step forward after catching the ball. In fact machado takes a step toward the foul line before they collide. The last step before he hits him is easily a foot outside Machado's normal path.

Also, as for dragging his left foot he's trying to slow down. If he's trying to hurt him why is his first reaction to lift his left foot back upon contact? If you're trying to hurt him you following through with more force than that. What it looks to me like is someone who accidentally collided with a guy he thought was going to move.

The fact of the matter is the runner has the right to the space above the bag and the 1B's foot is blocking over half the width of the bag. I don't necessarily think the 1B was doing anything sinister either but he's just as much at fault for this as Machado is. In order for Machado to totally avoid him his left food would have had to go 2 feet to the right and just barely touch the farthest right 1/4 of the bag. Do you know how awkward that would have been at a jogging speed? He probably would have fallen down. Seriously go try jogging and then make your left foot go where your right foot's path is.

I looked and saw his foot in fair territory. I see Manny not in the basepath and in fair territory.

There was a reason why he got fined. He went in looking to disrupt the play as he did earlier game.

 

[CSF77]

This thread went to shit as soon as Milton Bradley was invoked

Ya hater.

 

[CSF77]

Lol at those complaining about or not wanting Machado

He signs with the Cubs you all will be rooting hard for him and buying his Jersey..lol

Just like those who didn't want Chapman did

It depends. If Theo gave him 30M per and passed it off like it didn’t happen I would for the most part be disgusted.

If he rights the ship and becomes a great Cub. Then his actions change my opinion.

I don’t get swayed on hype and buying Jerseys is in general fan boy stuff. Got a hat. Had a 1012 Cubs hat before. I like hats. Gear is homer IMO

 

[beckdawg]

I looked and saw his foot in fair territory. I see Manny not in the basepath and in fair territory.

There was a reason why he got fined. He went in looking to disrupt the play as he did earlier game.

His path put him directly in line with the bag. Not sure how you figure he's outside the base path. You run in fair territory because the bag is in fair territory. Regardless, I still stand by the point I made which is that the 1B covered half the bag up with his foot and made 0 attempt to move. What was Machado supposed to do at that point? If he tried to step farther toward the foul line with his left foot he very well could have awkwardly landed on the bag and turned his ankle not to mention he's almost certainly going to fall.

You can play the what if game all day on things he should have done but none of that matters if the 1B gets off his ass and moves like he should have. There's literally no reason for him to linger over the base like he did. At the end of the day Machado clearly made an attempt to avoid him in his final step before colliding with him. If he was trying to run into him he doesn't change his path with his right foot. If he was trying to run into him he doesn't immediately look back after it happens wondering what happened. He would know there would be contact because he would be trying for it. If he was trying to run into him he doesn't lift his leg backwards after it collides with him because again he knows the contact is coming. When Machado steps on the bag with his right foot before the collision he's looking down to make sure his right food lands in a way where he doesn't hurt himself. He's not looking at the 1B. That's why immediately after colliding he looks back wondering what happened because he likely doesn't see he's going to collide.

You don't wanna believe any of that fine, that's on you. But I'm not going to sit here and call a player dirty when the 1B is as much at fault for the play as Machado is. Machado's foot hit his ON the bag. Machado didn't go out of his way to run into him. He was in Machado's way.

 

[beckdawg]

His path put him directly in line with the bag. Not sure how you figure he's outside the base path. You run in fair territory because the bag is in fair territory.

Also re: this you can literally see dozens of cleat marks in the grass in fair territory. So acting like Machado is some how way inside the line is absurd. That's how players run.