IST: Chicago Cubs (7-5) at Pittsburgh Pirates (6-7)

[TC in Mississippi]

Ok, seen three division rivals.....only one I saw that I think is better than the Cubs is St. Louis. The Brewers seem to be in disarray....this Cub team should be a contender just like Rizzo said.

After seeing these games I still think the Pirates are a better team top to bottom. If the Cubs get healthy, make a few changes they could be better but I wouldn't say that yet.

 

[Diehardfan]

Should have taken 2/3 from the Padres and 3/4 from the Pirates

The pitching has been prone to the big inning. Gonna need to add another starter, and pen arm to really be taken seriously as contenders moving forward. These blown games are going to keep piling up

Disagree about the pitching. The starters are fine and they have what they need in the pen right now....trouble is two of them are hurt. Get the Ram and Grimm healthy and get James Russell up here to be a spot lefty and they'll be fine.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Disagree about the pitching. The starters are fine and they have what they need in the pen right now....trouble is two of them are hurt. Get the Ram and Grimm healthy and get James Russell up here to be a spot lefty and they'll be fine.

I think they need another starter before it's all said and done but they shouldn't need one now. If Lester can get his act together and these other guys can add an inning it will be fine until the summer sun come a calling. They can deal with a starter then. Relief help can't wait. It's urgent.

 

[CSF77]

I think they need another starter before it's all said and done but they shouldn't need one now. If Lester can get his act together and these other guys can add an inning it will be fine until the summer sun come a calling. They can deal with a starter then. Relief help can't wait. It's urgent.

x3 through rotation:

Lester: 15.2 IP 6.89 ERA 1.79 WHIP
Arrieta: 20.2 IP 1.74 ERA 0.87 WHIP
Wood: 16.4 IP 3.24 ERA 1.20 WHIP
Hammel 17.1 IP 5.19 ERA 1.27 WHIP
Hendricks 15.2 IP 5.74 ERA 1.09 WHIP

It is more than adding a inning. This rotation is Arrieta pitching like an ace then a bunch of 5's.

They need to start stringing together some quality starts.

 

[JZsportsfan]

Disagree about the pitching. The starters are fine and they have what they need in the pen right now....trouble is two of them are hurt. Get the Ram and Grimm healthy and get James Russell up here to be a spot lefty and they'll be fine.

The rotation hasn't been that good though.

Lester will bounce back. Joe Maddon was on PTI yesterday and talked about how he anticipated Lester struggling the 1st month since he had injuries during the spring. So this weekend Joe said he should be back.

Arrieta has had a great start to the season. As has Wood

The worry lies with Hammel and Hendricks. We all knew Hendricks would snap back to reality a little this season, but he just hasn't been very good this season. He and Hammel both, have struggled to pitch deep into games and haven't been able to avoid the big inning.

Once Grimm and Ramirez come back, we can re-evaluate the pen

 

[TL1961]

Disagree about the pitching. The starters are fine and they have what they need in the pen right now....trouble is two of them are hurt. Get the Ram and Grimm healthy and get James Russell up here to be a spot lefty and they'll be fine.

The starters need to go deeper into the game.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

x3 through rotation:

Lester: 15.2 IP 6.89 ERA 1.79 WHIP
Arrieta: 20.2 IP 1.74 ERA 0.87 WHIP
Wood: 16.4 IP 3.24 ERA 1.20 WHIP
Hammel 17.1 IP 5.19 ERA 1.27 WHIP
Hendricks 15.2 IP 5.74 ERA 1.09 WHIP

It is more than adding a inning. This rotation is Arrieta pitching like an ace then a bunch of 5's.

They need to start stringing together some quality starts.

Of course they have to better. Wood has not been bad, better than I expected , Hammell doesn't have a long way to go to acceptable performance and I assume Lester will be Lester eventually, although soon would be nice. Hendricks has been very inconsistent. Agree they need quality starts, but as bad as the starting pitching has been the relief has been worse. Partly due to overwork, partly just due to bad pitchers. An influx of some new arms is, as I said, critical. Grimm, Ramirez, Wada, James Russell or whoever they need arms.

 

[CSF77]

Of course they have to better. Wood has not been bad, better than I expected , Hammell doesn't have a long way to go to acceptable performance and I assume Lester will be Lester eventually, although soon would be nice. Hendricks has been very inconsistent. Agree they need quality starts, but as bad as the starting pitching has been the relief has been worse. Partly due to overwork, partly just due to bad pitchers. An influx of some new arms is, as I said, critical. Grimm, Ramirez, Wada, James Russell or whoever they need arms.

Hendricks has only walked 1 guy. So his command is on. 16 hits in in 15.2 IP is strong also. His 5.74 ERA lyes in his first start where he had no movement on his fastball and got lit up (In Denver so not unheard of). Last game he looks like a typical back of the rotation pitcher.

Lester: Game 1 4.1 IP 6.23 ERA, game 2 6 IP 9.00 ERA, Game 3 5.1 IP 5.07 ERA (ERA value is for that game)

Arrieta: Game 1 7 IP 0.00 ERA, Game 2 6.2 IP 4.04 ERA, Game 3 7 IP 1.29 ERA

Travis Wood: Game 1 4.2 IP, 5.79 ERA, Game 2 7 IP, 0.00 ERA Game 3 5 IP, 5.40 ERA

Hammel: Game 1 6 IP 4.50 ERA Game 2 6 IP 4.50 ERA Game 3 5.40 ERA

Hendricks: Game 1 4.1 IP 10.39 ERA Game 2 6 IP 3.00 ERA Game 3 5.1 IP 5.06 ERA

Wood had 1 solid game. other 2 were #5 quality.
Hendricks has had 1 ok start. Rest were #5 or AAAA quality.
Hammel has been pretty contestant. Same ER's given up. 1 start went 5 vs his norm 6. Typical back of the rotation production.
Lester IMO has flat sucked. If he was a no name he would be in Iowa right now.
Arrieta's worst game stands up to the others best games. Dude is proving that he is a league ace right now.

If Lester can get back to his typical production he becomes a solid #2 behind Arrieta. They still need a #3 for a play off run. Hammel has proven that he is a solid #4. His game to game shows little flux. Wood and Hendricks have been up and down. Either are expendable right now.

 

[CSF77]

Looking at it I see Cueto on the market this year. IMO too expensive and giving up key prospects to a rival is not really smart. Shark IMO will also be a target. Unless the Sox can turn it around. I doubt Theo goes there though. Ideal would be Zimmerman but I see the Nat's in a play off hunt and I doubt they give the Cubs any help.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Hendricks has only walked 1 guy. So his command is on. 16 hits in in 15.2 IP is strong also. His 5.74 ERA lyes in his first start where he had no movement on his fastball and got lit up (In Denver so not unheard of). Last game he looks like a typical back of the rotation pitcher.

Lester: Game 1 4.1 IP 6.23 ERA, game 2 6 IP 9.00 ERA, Game 3 5.1 IP 5.07 ERA (ERA value is for that game)

Arrieta: Game 1 7 IP 0.00 ERA, Game 2 6.2 IP 4.04 ERA, Game 3 7 IP 1.29 ERA

Travis Wood: Game 1 4.2 IP, 5.79 ERA, Game 2 7 IP, 0.00 ERA Game 3 5 IP, 5.40 ERA

Hammel: Game 1 6 IP 4.50 ERA Game 2 6 IP 4.50 ERA Game 3 5.40 ERA

Hendricks: Game 1 4.1 IP 10.39 ERA Game 2 6 IP 3.00 ERA Game 3 5.1 IP 5.06 ERA

Wood had 1 solid game. other 2 were #5 quality.
Hendricks has had 1 ok start. Rest were #5 or AAAA quality.
Hammel has been pretty contestant. Same ER's given up. 1 start went 5 vs his norm 6. Typical back of the rotation production.
Lester IMO has flat sucked. If he was a no name he would be in Iowa right now.
Arrieta's worst game stands up to the others best games. Dude is proving that he is a league ace right now.

If Lester can get back to his typical production he becomes a solid #2 behind Arrieta. They still need a #3 for a play off run. Hammel has proven that he is a solid #4. His game to game shows little flux. Wood and Hendricks have been up and down. Either are expendable right now.

I don't disagree with any of this but based on what most scouts think Hendricks will get better. He's a no stuff guy that depends on command and adjustments. He needs to improve on both. With a veteran like Lester you can't really sy "if" he gets better, it's more like when. He's not an age where guys fall of the cliff and he doesn't appear injured. He looks like a guy who's spring preparation was interrupted. If you break down his last game he was much, much better with some lapses. Yes, if this is a playoff team they need another TOR starter, at least a #3. If they look like they are I expect they'll try to trade for one. I think we have to be careful though in that this may be a growth year, not a playoff year and it is only April. I was hoping they would finish .500 in April. They are on track to do that. I'd like the starters to pitch better and I hope the relief mix improves when Grimm returns and some other guys come up. No matter hat this is way better than losing on purpose for 3 years.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Looking at it I see Cueto on the market this year. IMO too expensive and giving up key prospects to a rival is not really smart. Shark IMO will also be a target. Unless the Sox can turn it around. I doubt Theo goes there though. Ideal would be Zimmerman but I see the Nat's in a play off hunt and I doubt they give the Cubs any help.

I think they'll target a young guy. If they A's fall apart Beane will listen to offers for Sonny Gray. I'm curious if Miami would entertain offers for Henderson Alvarez. I'm not opposed to a veteran, even a rental, but I think they'll pursue a young, long time piece first. Might not get one, but you have to try. Otherwise they'll be shelling out huge money for another over 30 pitcher next offseason.

 

[brett05]

I think they'll target a young guy. If they A's fall apart Beane will listen to offers for Sonny Gray. I'm curious if Miami would entertain offers for Henderson Alvarez. I'm not opposed to a veteran, even a rental, but I think they'll pursue a young, long time piece first. Might not get one, but you have to try. Otherwise they'll be shelling out huge money for another over 30 pitcher next offseason.

The plan is solid, but you have to be willing to give up quality young pieces to get the Gray type pitcher that you want. It more than likely means no dream IF that the Cubs have now.

 

[Parade_Rain]

The plan is solid, but you have to be willing to give up quality young pieces to get the Gray type pitcher that you want. It more than likely means no dream IF that the Cubs have now.

Beane would like McKinney back. Throw him in with Vog and a couple of pitching prospects (not Edwards) and the Cubs get him.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The plan is solid, but you have to be willing to give up quality young pieces to get the Gray type pitcher that you want. It more than likely means no dream IF that the Cubs have now.

You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. I've always been well aware that some trades these guys make are gonna hurt. If it gets you a 25 year old stud pitcher for the next 5 years in your rotation, one that you're not taking the early TJ risk on (all pitchers have TJ risk but young draftees even more)? I'm in for that. You've also got young talent in the minor leagues that can be dealt so while there will be MLB impact this is a team that can withstand losing a stud player here or there.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Beane would like McKinney back. Throw him in with Vog and a couple of pitching prospects (not Edwards) and the Cubs get him.

Yep, that one might not cost the MLB player Brett was talking about. Gray goes to arbitration after 2016, he's nowhere near untouchable in trade.

 

[beckdawg]

In reference to Hendricks, his FIP is 3.24. Comparable to his history last year and in the minors he's given up more HR than usual(0.45-0.55 in minors vs 1.15 HR/9 this year). His 7.47 and 0.57 k/9 bb/9 are quite favorable as well. Honestly, the underlying numbers suggest a better season than he had last year.

 

[brett05]

Beane would like McKinney back. Throw him in with Vog and a couple of pitching prospects (not Edwards) and the Cubs get him.

I don't think so at all. Quantity does not equal quantity. Even with a love of a former organizational guy, Beane while dumb in many eyes isn't that dumb. He'd get a lot more from just about every team. Especially as affordable Gray is. This of course is not limited to just Gray but any Gray type prospect as I said before.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I don't think so at all. Quantity does not equal quantity. Even with a love of a former organizational guy, Beane while dumb in many eyes isn't that dumb. He'd get a lot more from just about every team. Especially as affordable Gray is. This of course is not limited to just Gray but any Gray type prospect as I said before.

He's absolutely not dumb, but he's a guy who would probably prefer a quantity of picks over MLB ready guys. He plays competition windows and if this odd mix he's put together this year doesn't compete into July he's going to want to go cheap and rebuild the farm. In his first arbitration year, if he continue to be as good as he looks, Gray is going to get somewhere between $7 and $10 million. Of course Gray is dirt cheap for 2015 and 2016 so he could wait it out as well. It's going to take high prospects of which McKinney isn't one yet but he does like him. Vogelbach is a high prospect, and some of those pitchers are the kind of arms he like but again it would be quantity. For instance he probably wouldn't take even a Soler, if the Cubs were inclined to trade him, because he would cost to much for the losing teams he expects to field the next probably 2 years. Now give him Gleyber Torres, Vogelbach, McKinney and say 2 arms I bet you could get Gray. Few other teams would be equipped to give up that kind of quantity. His ending payroll for 2011, the last year they had a losing club, was $40 million. You can expect similar numbers for the next couple of years if they fail this year. Any other team besides Oakland trading pitching would require MLB ready players. Good ones. Beane is just his own thing and nobody has figured him out yet so I may be wrong too.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I don't think so at all. Quantity does not equal quantity. Even with a love of a former organizational guy, Beane while dumb in many eyes isn't that dumb. He'd get a lot more from just about every team. Especially as affordable Gray is. This of course is not limited to just Gray but any Gray type prospect as I said before.

Quality? Vogelbach crushes at every level he has been at. He is an AL DH with the ability to spell a 1B every now and then. The Cubs have quality arms at the lower levels. This is how Beane operates generally. The big "if" is whether or not Oak is competitive. If they aren't, he's in sell/rebuild mode. Perhaps you don't remember #12 is not #1. The Cubs still have quite a bit of talent available in the MiLB that other clubs will want, particularly teams such as the A's.

 

[brett05]

He's absolutely not dumb, but he's a guy who would probably prefer a quantity of picks over MLB ready guys. He plays competition windows and if this odd mix he's put together this year doesn't compete into July he's going to want to go cheap and rebuild the farm. In his first arbitration year, if he continue to be as good as he looks, Gray is going to get somewhere between $7 and $10 million. Of course Gray is dirt cheap for 2015 and 2016 so he could wait it out as well. It's going to take high prospects of which McKinney isn't one yet but he does like him. Vogelbach is a high prospect, and some of those pitchers are the kind of arms he like but again it would be quantity. For instance he probably wouldn't take even a Soler, if the Cubs were inclined to trade him, because he would cost to much for the losing teams he expects to field the next probably 2 years. Now give him Gleyber Torres, Vogelbach, McKinney and say 2 arms I bet you could get Gray. Few other teams would be equipped to give up that kind of quantity. His ending payroll for 2011, the last year they had a losing club, was $40 million. You can expect similar numbers for the next couple of years if they fail this year. Any other team besides Oakland trading pitching would require MLB ready players. Good ones. Beane is just his own thing and nobody has figured him out yet so I may be wrong too.

You could be right. I just disagree.

btw, any place I can find what ARB1 players have been getting?