IST: Cubs @ Marlins

[CSF77]

Yea, most of these kids today go into the cage and see how far they can hit it on batting practice..

They rarely work on situational hitting now..
I remember watching BP back in the day and seeing guys bunting the first few pitches, then going the other way, up the middle, and most of them just worked on hitting line drives to the gaps.. you only seen the big guys up there hacking away..

Now even the little SS and 2Bmen are hacking away in the cages

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https://youtu.be/LtwC3vnb1Jc

 

[CSF77]

Problem is more the way young players are developed in my eyes. You look at 1977 stats vs 2017 stats and you'll see it. BB/k rate in 77 was 8.5%/13.4%. ISO was .137 and triple slash league average was .264/.329/.401. Last year you're looking at 8.5%/21.6%, .171 and .255/.324/.426. Simply put the are sacrificing average(k rate mostly) for power. But that's largely because that's how kids get noticed and thus drafted. If you're essentially a HS version of Almora at any other position but maybe C and CF you're not getting a second look.

As we've seen with Heyward, once you're one thing it's not easy to change. It's the whole Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hour thing in that it takes 10k hours to master something. You do that at a young age. And honestly up until maybe AA and higher you can pretty much do anything as long as it works for you. But changing at that point is too late. You either make it with what you have or you're likely going to flounder around awhile until you do finally get it if you keep a job in baseball that long.

Pretty sure it is on the scouting side. You go through HS talent and the power hitters are getting noticed. So that filters to the parents where they want their kids in the gym and on the football team pumping up because that is a potential payday.

Honestly the system is in love with the HR and the 90+ mph. End of story. Guys that are control hitters and very talented at it are not respected by the system.

Kinda why you have to love Hendricks. He is a square peg from a past era just proving the system wrong.

 

[chibears55]

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[beckdawg]

Pretty sure it is on the scouting side. You go through HS talent and the power hitters are getting noticed. So that filters to the parents where they want their kids in the gym and on the football team pumping up because that is a potential payday.

Honestly the system is in love with the HR and the 90+ mph. End of story. Guys that are control hitters and very talented at it are not respected by the system.

Kinda why you have to love Hendricks. He is a square peg from a past era just proving the system wrong.

I don't really agree it's scouting. I mean in some sense yes that is what they like because what's not to like about those type of players? The problem is game theory. The players/coaches realize that's what gets them noticed so they only train for that. I fundamentally don't believe there are scores of people out there who play like the 70/80's hitters did. At some point in their development I believe some of the better prospects could have been those type of players but they took a different path.

Now sure as a team you can try to focus in guys with specific traits but just look across the league. You can't build an entire system with that type of hitter anymore. There just aren't enough guys who do it. Realistically the only way I see to do it is to focus by building your team via HS and IFA players and essentially train them yourself but that is very very difficult.

 

[CSF77]

I don't really agree it's scouting. I mean in some sense yes that is what they like because what's not to like about those type of players? The problem is game theory. The players/coaches realize that's what gets them noticed so they only train for that. I fundamentally don't believe there are scores of people out there who play like the 70/80's hitters did. At some point in their development I believe some of the better prospects could have been those type of players but they took a different path.

Now sure as a team you can try to focus in guys with specific traits but just look across the league. You can't build an entire system with that type of hitter anymore. There just aren't enough guys who do it. Realistically the only way I see to do it is to focus by building your team via HS and IFA players and essentially train them yourself but that is very very difficult.

Even HS talent has been playing the game for years. I played in tee ball to HS level. At high school they wanted power more. And that was mid 80’s. I ended up getting cut Sophmore year as a 1B/CF. I was a solid player but they had 2 jacked up LH 1B types already. I hit the gym with them some but they were more advanced physically then myself at that point. I had the best glove and arm at 1B but it didn’t matter. They wanted the HR power.

So I’ve seen it personally. It didn’t matter honestly as I developed size later and moved on. But that was common at the HS level.

 

[beckdawg]

Even HS talent has been playing the game for years. I played in tee ball to HS level. At high school they wanted power more. And that was mid 80’s. I ended up getting cut Sophmore year as a 1B/CF. I was a solid player but they had 2 jacked up LH 1B types already. I hit the gym with them some but they were more advanced physically then myself at that point. I had the best glove and arm at 1B but it didn’t matter. They wanted the HR power.

So I’ve seen it personally. It didn’t matter honestly as I developed size later and moved on. But that was common at the HS level.

Yeah maybe. I don't know if there's a "fix" to a more contact oriented approach. I just mentioned the idea of developing your own with younger players as a possibility. Honestly most teams tend to prefer guys who are closer to fully baked rather than trying to build players anyways.

 

[CSF77]

Yeah maybe. I don't know if there's a "fix" to a more contact oriented approach. I just mentioned the idea of developing your own with younger players as a possibility. Honestly most teams tend to prefer guys who are closer to fully baked rather than trying to build players anyways.

I can see that. I was in the same class as Todd Huntley. He was a skinny catcher at the time. He pretty much rode on his raw talent and dad’s name. Had a rocket of a arm. Got drafted. Pretty much roided up and packed on weight in the Mets system. Not shocking as roid’s were easy to get at my HS. Our starting 1B ended up getting busted at college for selling and expelled. He was the source at my HS for the jocks.

I was not sad honestly. He was a jerk. We were on the same football team in 8th grade and he refused to shed and moved up leagues. That is when he really started to abuse

 

[RacerX]

And I was hoping Javy would be traded in the offseason, I think his trade value will only decline going forward - way too much Alphonso Soriano in his batting approach..

This is aging well....

 

[fatbeard]

This is aging well....

CCS baseball hot-takes FTW!

 

[DanTown]

What is the fallacy of comparing Gwynn, a fairly unique hitter, and questioning why more aren't like him? It was basically him and Boggs as great hitters without power and that's about it. It's not like scouts see a hitter like Gywnn now and say "hit more power", every team and scout would recognize the hit tool and tell him to keep doing what he's doing. The point is that very few have that kind of eye, hand coordination, and raw ability to hit that way. It's far easier to train a guy to be a power hitter who strikes out a ton to a guy like Gywnn who could hit against anyone anytime. And it's not easier in the sense of time or effort but easier in that you can create a guy to have more powerful swing (more strength, more lift) than it is to train a guy to be an all fields hitter if he doesn't have that hit tool. You simply can't "work harder" at being an all-time great hitter.

 

[CSF77]

What is the fallacy of comparing Gwynn, a fairly unique hitter, and questioning why more aren't like him? It was basically him and Boggs as great hitters without power and that's about it. It's not like scouts see a hitter like Gywnn now and say "hit more power", every team and scout would recognize the hit tool and tell him to keep doing what he's doing. The point is that very few have that kind of eye, hand coordination, and raw ability to hit that way. It's far easier to train a guy to be a power hitter who strikes out a ton to a guy like Gywnn who could hit against anyone anytime. And it's not easier in the sense of time or effort but easier in that you can create a guy to have more powerful swing (more strength, more lift) than it is to train a guy to be an all fields hitter if he doesn't have that hit tool. You simply can't "work harder" at being an all-time great hitter.

Bonds changed all of that. Even Tony talked about how Barry could see the ball coming out of the pitchers hand and could tell what was coming. He had insane talent that goes beyond his juicing.

Now a days the major change going on is swing path where hitters are getting the barrel down early to create a longer contact path through the hit box vs swinging down into the hit zone which creates a smaller contact path. Bryant’s swing is becoming more emulated now.