IST: Cubs @ Phillies

[Globetrotter]

Lester sucked his first year in the NL also.

Did he suck in the AL before being traded, too?

 

[Ari Bear]

Lester sucked his first year in the NL also.

True. Though I don't think Quintana is a ace pitcher as I do think Lester is.


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[beckdawg]

People are over reacting on Q. The results haven't been amazing obviously but the underlying numbers look fine. Since coming over he's at 10.37 k/9 and 3.33 bb/9. For him you want that walk rate in the mid 2's but it's not ungodly bad in a small sample and a 10 k/9 rate is fantastic. Like every other cubs pitcher this year seemingly his HR/FB rate is pretty high at 18.4%. That's up from 12.8% in the AL this year. But if you look at his best season in terms of fWAR it was 2014 where he had contact rates of 16.7%/54.0%/29.3% soft/med/hard. With the cubs those rates are 18.2%/52.1%/29.8% which is better all around and even if you want to throw in his time with the sox he's at 18.4%/50.5%/31.2% which is a little more hard contact and soft contact at the cost of medium. But it's not demonstratively worse.

Other than the walks being up there's nothing that stands out as obviously broken. And his strand rate is a little low comparable to his career numbers which likely means he's been a bit unlucky. He'll be fine.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

yeah, I still think the trade will be alright long-term. The White Sox will definitely never be the losers of the trade but Q will be himself again and the Cubs got a valuable commodity of good and not expensive starting pitching for a couple years. Everything that's not going the way it should is just extra frustrating at this point of the season.

 

[chibears55]

Rizzo!!!!!

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[chibears55]

BRYZZO!!!!!!!!

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[beckdawg]

I'm not 100% sure Hendricks is back to 2016 levels but he looks close. Since he came back from injury he's pitched 40 IP 11 bb 38 k's and 11 ER That's good for a 2.48 ERA with a 2.48 bb/9 and a 8.55 k/9

 

[Parade_Rain]

LaStella with 2 dingers tonight.

 

[Globetrotter]

Schwarber!

Oh, wait. He still sucks.

 

[beckdawg]

Schwarber!

Oh, wait. He still sucks.

?

.241/.342/.547 with 14 HRs since the start of june. Swear to god if the cubs signed Trout and he went 0-4 in a game people would complain that he sucked.

 

[Globetrotter]

Guy is batting under .200. Swear to God he could be at .100 and he'd still have apologists saying he's amazing.

 

[ijustposthere]

?

.241/.342/.547 with 14 HRs since the start of june. Swear to god if the cubs signed Trout and he went 0-4 in a game people would complain that he sucked.

You think if Trout was hitting .202/.313/.442 for the season people wouldn't complain? Schwarber's offense + his lackluster D has been a bust this season. His numbers with runners on are horrid, still.

 

[beckdawg]

You think if Trout was hitting .202/.313/.442 for the season people wouldn't complain? Schwarber's offense + his lackluster D has been a bust this season. His numbers with runners on are horrid, still.

His defense hasn't even been bad this year. He has a 10.3 UZR/150 and -4 DRS. I'd wager uzr has him high but -4 DRS isn't bad. It's not even Matt Holliday bad and Holliday was passable in LF.

As for his offense, Schwarber was certainly horrible in april and may but A) he hadn't even played a full season in the majors and B) lots of players have gone through slumps especially when getting established. He's now played roughly a full season worth of PAs and he's a 110 wRC+ or roughly 10% better than your average hitter. People are focusing too much on his BA and not enough on his OBP. Hits obviously matter to an extent but the hits that matter are extra base hits. Singles and walks are roughly equivalent. Extra base hits score runs. And in terms of extra base hits, over the 680 PA sample he's got 38 HRs, 21 doubles and 2 triples or 61 extra base hits. Bryant in his first 650 PAs had 31 doubles 5 triples and 26 HRs or 62 extra base hits.

And if we're talking about that .165/.286/.341 206 PA sample from april and may let's first consider this was largely his first action since returning from injury. But even ignoring that you know who had a .141/.281/.242 153 PA sample and also got sent down? Anthony Rizzo. Also I heard a lot of people in 2013 complaining about Rizzo's .233/.323/.419 season. I said the same thing then that I'll say about Schwarber... he's fine. Incidentally, Rizzo also couldn't hit LHP at that point in his career. And the reason for that is probably the simple fact that LHP is rare in the minors. I mean pitching in general is rare but even at the MLB level you only see about 25% LHP. So the odds of you finding a lefty who's actually good is fairly slim where as LHP at the major league level can actually pitch. As for his numbers with runners on I'd point out Bryant is hitting .217/.333/.424 with runners in scoring position. It's not like Schwarber is the only cub with that problem.

I'm not even saying Schwarber doesn't have stuff to work on but I get so tired of the melodrama here about how everyone is shit whether it's Schwarber or Q or whomever. The fact of the matter is most players don't come up and play like all-stars. A guy like Schwarber has dominated at every level he has played at. There's a few rare guys like Bryant who are just always great but often players need that first set back to fix issues because if someone can't exploit them then it's hard to change. And nothing above MLB pitching did anything to Schwarber. I mean he hit .334/.432/.619 for crying out loud in the minors. That's why I keep bringing up his numbers since June because it's how a player adjust to those struggles that matter. .241/.342/.547 isn't world beating but it's pretty fucking good. It's a 128 wRC+ which if it were over a full year would be good for the top 35 hitters in baseball.

I guess my point here is what do people want him to do? Go back in time and play better in april and may? Because he's been good for 2 fucking months now but people are still complaining. He's made adjustments and got better. He's obviously still got some rough edges. But so does Baez. So does Russell. So does Happ. Hell Bryant still isn't amazing in high leverage situations. Young players are always going to have rough edges. That's the entire point of experience.

 

[TL1961]

Lester sucked his first year in the NL also.

No he didn't. ERA was high, but lots of quality starts. At one point, late in year he had 3rd most 2 ER or fewer statts, after Kershaw and Greinke, ahead of Arrieta. He had more poor outings that year than last two, but hardly "sucked".

 

[CSF77]

The point is Q has held a ERA in the 3's and this year it is up at 4.50. It is just a blip in his career.

Just like when Jon came over and did not take the bull by the horns and watched Jake be that guy. The following year he took the bull.

I'm not going to judge Q by a series of games. I judge players over a longer view.

 

[CSF77]

His defense hasn't even been bad this year. He has a 10.3 UZR/150 and -4 DRS. I'd wager uzr has him high but -4 DRS isn't bad. It's not even Matt Holliday bad and Holliday was passable in LF.

As for his offense, Schwarber was certainly horrible in april and may but A) he hadn't even played a full season in the majors and B) lots of players have gone through slumps especially when getting established. He's now played roughly a full season worth of PAs and he's a 110 wRC+ or roughly 10% better than your average hitter. People are focusing too much on his BA and not enough on his OBP. Hits obviously matter to an extent but the hits that matter are extra base hits. Singles and walks are roughly equivalent. Extra base hits score runs. And in terms of extra base hits, over the 680 PA sample he's got 38 HRs, 21 doubles and 2 triples or 61 extra base hits. Bryant in his first 650 PAs had 31 doubles 5 triples and 26 HRs or 62 extra base hits.

And if we're talking about that .165/.286/.341 206 PA sample from april and may let's first consider this was largely his first action since returning from injury. But even ignoring that you know who had a .141/.281/.242 153 PA sample and also got sent down? Anthony Rizzo. Also I heard a lot of people in 2013 complaining about Rizzo's .233/.323/.419 season. I said the same thing then that I'll say about Schwarber... he's fine. Incidentally, Rizzo also couldn't hit LHP at that point in his career. And the reason for that is probably the simple fact that LHP is rare in the minors. I mean pitching in general is rare but even at the MLB level you only see about 25% LHP. So the odds of you finding a lefty who's actually good is fairly slim where as LHP at the major league level can actually pitch. As for his numbers with runners on I'd point out Bryant is hitting .217/.333/.424 with runners in scoring position. It's not like Schwarber is the only cub with that problem.

I'm not even saying Schwarber doesn't have stuff to work on but I get so tired of the melodrama here about how everyone is shit whether it's Schwarber or Q or whomever. The fact of the matter is most players don't come up and play like all-stars. A guy like Schwarber has dominated at every level he has played at. There's a few rare guys like Bryant who are just always great but often players need that first set back to fix issues because if someone can't exploit them then it's hard to change. And nothing above MLB pitching did anything to Schwarber. I mean he hit .334/.432/.619 for crying out loud in the minors. That's why I keep bringing up his numbers since June because it's how a player adjust to those struggles that matter. .241/.342/.547 isn't world beating but it's pretty fucking good. It's a 128 wRC+ which if it were over a full year would be good for the top 35 hitters in baseball.

I guess my point here is what do people want him to do? Go back in time and play better in april and may? Because he's been good for 2 fucking months now but people are still complaining. He's made adjustments and got better. He's obviously still got some rough edges. But so does Baez. So does Russell. So does Happ. Hell Bryant still isn't amazing in high leverage situations. Young players are always going to have rough edges. That's the entire point of experience.

This falls under the same thing: judging worth over a body of work vs a small sample. People get too wrapped up in the what are you doing now vs looking at it objectively. He has barley eclipsed a full year of AB's and he is no where near a finished product

 

[chibears55]

His defense hasn't even been bad this year. He has a 10.3 UZR/150 and -4 DRS. I'd wager uzr has him high but -4 DRS isn't bad. It's not even Matt Holliday bad and Holliday was passable in LF.

As for his offense, Schwarber was certainly horrible in april and may but A) he hadn't even played a full season in the majors and B) lots of players have gone through slumps especially when getting established. He's now played roughly a full season worth of PAs and he's a 110 wRC+ or roughly 10% better than your average hitter. People are focusing too much on his BA and not enough on his OBP. Hits obviously matter to an extent but the hits that matter are extra base hits. Singles and walks are roughly equivalent. Extra base hits score runs. And in terms of extra base hits, over the 680 PA sample he's got 38 HRs, 21 doubles and 2 triples or 61 extra base hits. Bryant in his first 650 PAs had 31 doubles 5 triples and 26 HRs or 62 extra base hits.

And if we're talking about that .165/.286/.341 206 PA sample from april and may let's first consider this was largely his first action since returning from injury. But even ignoring that you know who had a .141/.281/.242 153 PA sample and also got sent down? Anthony Rizzo. Also I heard a lot of people in 2013 complaining about Rizzo's .233/.323/.419 season. I said the same thing then that I'll say about Schwarber... he's fine. Incidentally, Rizzo also couldn't hit LHP at that point in his career. And the reason for that is probably the simple fact that LHP is rare in the minors. I mean pitching in general is rare but even at the MLB level you only see about 25% LHP. So the odds of you finding a lefty who's actually good is fairly slim where as LHP at the major league level can actually pitch. As for his numbers with runners on I'd point out Bryant is hitting .217/.333/.424 with runners in scoring position. It's not like Schwarber is the only cub with that problem.

I'm not even saying Schwarber doesn't have stuff to work on but I get so tired of the melodrama here about how everyone is shit whether it's Schwarber or Q or whomever. The fact of the matter is most players don't come up and play like all-stars. A guy like Schwarber has dominated at every level he has played at. There's a few rare guys like Bryant who are just always great but often players need that first set back to fix issues because if someone can't exploit them then it's hard to change. And nothing above MLB pitching did anything to Schwarber. I mean he hit .334/.432/.619 for crying out loud in the minors. That's why I keep bringing up his numbers since June because it's how a player adjust to those struggles that matter. .241/.342/.547 isn't world beating but it's pretty fucking good. It's a 128 wRC+ which if it were over a full year would be good for the top 35 hitters in baseball.

I guess my point here is what do people want him to do? Go back in time and play better in april and may? Because he's been good for 2 fucking months now but people are still complaining. He's made adjustments and got better. He's obviously still got some rough edges. But so does Baez. So does Russell. So does Happ. Hell Bryant still isn't amazing in high leverage situations. Young players are always going to have rough edges. That's the entire point of experience.

I haven't complained
[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]

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[jooo83]

Guy is batting under .200. Swear to God he could be at .100 and he'd still have apologists saying he's amazing.

There are people on this board who act like the cubs should be immune from criticism. That being said, I do think Schwarber will be much better next season. But in order to be a true everyday player he must improve against lefties and play better defense.

 

[chibears55]

Fukn Lackey
SMDH

6 more starts til he gone

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[chibears55]

Cubs lose this game.. they'll be 9-7 against those under .500 teams this month..
Not Good Enough

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