IST: Cubs @ Reds

[SilenceS]

Lol Reds thought they were going to win and the Cubs said nope. This game sums up both teams season.

 

[chibears55]

How ya doin cubs

Way to wake the bats up and finish off the year

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[DanTown]

There has never been a more meaningless come back from behind win on the final day of the year than this.

 

[TL1961]

There has never been a more meaningless come back from behind win on the final day of the year than this.

The Cardinals beg to differ.

 

[chibears55]

There has never been a more meaningless come back from behind win on the final day of the year than this.

It had meaning for Maddon and players

Gave Maddon his 200th win as Cubs manager

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[Shawon0Meter]

According to my complicated calculations, Joe Maddon averages 100 wins per season with the Chicago Cubs

 

[CSF77]

I don't know about superior..
Take away strikeouts, Lester was right there
Probably had chance if he had a good outing and won 20th game his last start

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That is why I said that. Lester put himself out of it when he failed to win 20. All things equal Max takes it but now he leads in wins IP and SO's. the voters will over look the ERA when he is dominating the rest.

 

[CSF77]

Nice thing is they have until Friday to figure it out. I really have a feeling it will be Frisco. They are picking up the tempo and had the toughest challenge with LAD and pushed past them. NYM and Cubs looked out of sorts vs crap competition. I doubt the Mets will win here.

Cubs need to figure it out this week and pick up the intensity come Friday.

 

[DanTown]

The Cardinals beg to differ.

How did that win impact the Cardinals?

 

[wklink]

The Cardinals beg to differ.

That was a meaningful game for the Cards. They had to win it to have any shot. It does prove that you have to take care of business yourself and not hope that another team loses to get into the postseason.

All of these wins are essentially meaningless after we secured home field except for the fact that it keeps momentum going into the divisional series. Losing 2 of 3 to the Reds wouldn't be a big deal but I hate the idea of coasting once you reach your goal.

 

[DanTown]

Jon Lester didn't win or lose the Cy Young based on one start in Cincinnati. Nor did Kyle Hendricks. To be honest, I think writers now are too smart and will not be wowed by high win totals and low ERA, especially on a team that plays defense like the Cubs. You cannot be objective to "best pitcher" and say it was either Lester or Hendricks.

I mean Lester and Hendricks were 6 and 7 in the NL in WAR at 4.3 and 3.8. To compare that, here is the last 10 Cy Young winners and their respective WAR rank and WAR total

2015 - Arrieta (2, 7.5)
2014 - Kershaw (1, 7.6)
2013 - Kershwaw (1, 7.1)
2012 - Dickey (3, 5.0)
2011 - Kershaw (2, 7.1)
2010 - Halladay (1, 6.1)
2009 - Lincecum (2, 7.7)
2008 - Lincecum (1, 7.1)
2007 - Peavy (1, 6.7)
2006 - Webb (1, 6.5)

The only season that compares to this one in terms of where Jon/Kyle are was in 2012. That year had a similar issue with Kershaw (1 with a 5.9 WAR but only 14 wins and #2 in WAR was 6 win Cliff Lee) but I just cannot see how someone would say either guy compares to the top end guys; especially when there are multiple WAR game differences between the top 3 (Syndegaard - 6.7, Fernandez - 6.2, Scherzer - 5.7) and the Cub guys.

When I think of Cy Young winners, they are the best pitcher in that league for that year. As good as the Cubs have been as a team, I cannot say with a straight face they had a top pitcher in baseball on that staff.

 

[chibears55]

Jon Lester didn't win or lose the Cy Young based on one start in Cincinnati. Nor did Kyle Hendricks. To be honest, I think writers now are too smart and will not be wowed by high win totals and low ERA, especially on a team that plays defense like the Cubs. You cannot be objective to "best pitcher" and say it was either Lester or Hendricks.

I mean Lester and Hendricks were 6 and 7 in the NL in WAR at 4.3 and 3.8. To compare that, here is the last 10 Cy Young winners and their respective WAR rank and WAR total

2015 - Arrieta (2, 7.5)
2014 - Kershaw (1, 7.6)
2013 - Kershwaw (1, 7.1)
2012 - Dickey (3, 5.0)
2011 - Kershaw (2, 7.1)
2010 - Halladay (1, 6.1)
2009 - Lincecum (2, 7.7)
2008 - Lincecum (1, 7.1)
2007 - Peavy (1, 6.7)
2006 - Webb (1, 6.5)

The only season that compares to this one in terms of where Jon/Kyle are was in 2012. That year had a similar issue with Kershaw (1 with a 5.9 WAR but only 14 wins and #2 in WAR was 6 win Cliff Lee) but I just cannot see how someone would say either guy compares to the top end guys; especially when there are multiple WAR game differences between the top 3 (Syndegaard - 6.7, Fernandez - 6.2, Scherzer - 5.7) and the Cub guys.

When I think of Cy Young winners, they are the best pitcher in that league for that year. As good as the Cubs have been as a team, I cannot say with a straight face they had a top pitcher in baseball on that staff.

Thing is, there are still a bunch of old school writers who vote and still go by regular stats , eye, and effectiveness and don't look at sabre metrics.

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[anotheridiot]

It was surprising to see the cubs broadcast have Fernandez as one of the top 5 and I wont be surprised if the writers cave and give it to him. There were plenty of stories coming out that Fernandez asked his team mates to go with him on his boat and nobody thought he was in the right frame of mind to trust out there after the fight with his pregnant girlfriend. I really think the writers will lose all their marbles if they give it to him instead of Scherzer with Kyle and Lester splitting the rest of the vote.

Really would rather have the Cards than Giants in an even year, but after stealing that win (even though they might have won with another at bat anyway) just really would suck.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Thing is, there are still a bunch of old school writers who vote and still go by regular stats , eye, and effectiveness and don't look at sabre metrics.

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Sure, but DanTown's stats don't lie, the CY winner has been ether 1 or 2 in WAR since 2006, with the exception of Dickey in 2012 which was a fairly odd choice. It really should go to Scherzer and if they go emotional I can't argue with Fernandez.

 

[TL1961]

According to my complicated calculations, Joe Maddon averages 100 wins per season with the Chicago Cubs

100.25

The tie counts for .5 ?

 

[TL1961]

Jon Lester didn't win or lose the Cy Young based on one start in Cincinnati. Nor did Kyle Hendricks. To be honest, I think writers now are too smart and will not be wowed by high win totals and low ERA, especially on a team that plays defense like the Cubs. You cannot be objective to "best pitcher" and say it was either Lester or Hendricks.

I mean Lester and Hendricks were 6 and 7 in the NL in WAR at 4.3 and 3.8. To compare that, here is the last 10 Cy Young winners and their respective WAR rank and WAR total

2015 - Arrieta (2, 7.5)
2014 - Kershaw (1, 7.6)
2013 - Kershwaw (1, 7.1)
2012 - Dickey (3, 5.0)
2011 - Kershaw (2, 7.1)
2010 - Halladay (1, 6.1)
2009 - Lincecum (2, 7.7)
2008 - Lincecum (1, 7.1)
2007 - Peavy (1, 6.7)
2006 - Webb (1, 6.5)

The only season that compares to this one in terms of where Jon/Kyle are was in 2012. That year had a similar issue with Kershaw (1 with a 5.9 WAR but only 14 wins and #2 in WAR was 6 win Cliff Lee) but I just cannot see how someone would say either guy compares to the top end guys; especially when there are multiple WAR game differences between the top 3 (Syndegaard - 6.7, Fernandez - 6.2, Scherzer - 5.7) and the Cub guys.

When I think of Cy Young winners, they are the best pitcher in that league for that year. As good as the Cubs have been as a team, I cannot say with a straight face they had a top pitcher in baseball on that staff.

WAR is inconsistently calculated, and subjective.

Using WAR in the Cy vote makes it like the MVP, in reverse. The better the players ariund Lester, the lower his WAR because anyone could win with that team, right?

Bad enough to use wins as a measure of a pitcher's performance, but now wevare using "What-if" wins.

 

[DanTown]

WAR is inconsistently calculated, and subjective.

Using WAR in the Cy vote makes it like the MVP, in reverse. The better the players ariund Lester, the lower his WAR because anyone could win with that team, right?

Bad enough to use wins as a measure of a pitcher's performance, but now wevare using "What-if" wins.

How is WAR subjective? It measures the things a pitcher can control and the things he cannot are not counted against him like true ERA and W/L might do.

I've yet to hear how the Cubs guys compare to the top NL pitchers besides "high wins and low ERA". Well wins and losses is a team measurement and the Cubs pitchers will of course have a low ERA if the Cubs have a historically good defense.

 

[TL1961]

Really?

Every pitcher with a good D has a low ERA?

Doesn't that contradict the idea that K's matter?

 

[Shawon0Meter]

100.25

The tie counts for .5 ��

lol damn it!!