IST: Cubs vs Braves

[knoxville7]

So instead of trading guys like hendricks when they had more value, we are going to let him have a rough season with us to lower his trade value and then probably trade him. As soon as they traded Yu, they should of traded a lot of the other guys. Hendricks getting knocked around so far today again. He doesn’t look like his old self right now

 

[jts1207]

Good game lol

 

[RacerX]

So instead of trading guys like hendricks when they had more value, we are going to let him have a rough season with us to lower his trade value and then probably trade him. As soon as they traded Yu, they should of traded a lot of the other guys. Hendricks getting knocked around so far today again. He doesn’t look like his old self right now

Agreed, sadly. Today’s game is already over, as is this stillborn season.

Just so very...... Cubs.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

So instead of trading guys like hendricks when they had more value, we are going to let him have a rough season with us to lower his trade value and then probably trade him. As soon as they traded Yu, they should of traded a lot of the other guys. Hendricks getting knocked around so far today again. He doesn’t look like his old self right now

Hendricks has actually tended to be a little bit of a slow starter. Also I'm sure there was a little rust today. I'm not too worried about him yet. I could definitely be wrong though. If the team sucks it could be harder for individuals to get motivated and perform at their normal levels

 

[SilenceS]

Problem is, Theo fell in love with his own guys. They really should have moved Schwarber after the WS when they had the chance. Almora was brutal too.

There was a time where you could justify keeping Baez, Bryant and Rizzo. They treated Schwarber as an untouchable and it backfired. The whole Addison Russell thing didn't help either.

Yes, biggest problems. Couldnt develop own pitching. Hanging on to "Theo" guys and having a lineup consisting on almost all the same type of hitters.

 

[knoxville7]

Hendricks has actually tended to be a little bit of a slow starter. Also I'm sure there was a little rust today. I'm not too worried about him yet. I could definitely be wrong though. If the team sucks it could be harder for individuals to get motivated and perform at their normal levels

yeah, I mean I don’t expect him to keep a 7 ERA all season or anything. But, I also don’t think he will have an era close to 3 either. This past offseason was the time to trade him. He was coming off years of great production and a pretty team friendly contract. They could of gotten probably a very similar haul to what they got for Yu. Now, who knows...trading him by the all star break this season will only work well if he bounces back before the break. Trade deadline makes most sense for a time to trade him...have the competing teams get into a bidding war for him

 

[CSF77]

Yes, biggest problems. Couldnt develop own pitching. Hanging on to "Theo" guys and having a lineup consisting on almost all the same type of hitters.

Theo's methods were broken from the start. It is like he had a check sheet. College player. Takes walks. Hits for power. Jed said that they would have passed on Javy in the 2011 draft because he didn't fall into their criteria. But his drive they couldn't account for.

Pitching again they wasted years of development targeting high floor college arms.

In both cases they went with safe choices and steered away from higher risk.

Year 1 they went with risk in Almora, Johnson and Underwood. None panned out but all are at least MLB players. That is part of the risk involved. Even though Almora lacked talent to be a top 10. He has a great work ethic but lacks the tools to back it up. Late 1st or later? For sure. But with a top 6 pick you really need to look at cornerstone types vs accessories.

 

[CSF77]

Hendricks has actually tended to be a little bit of a slow starter. Also I'm sure there was a little rust today. I'm not too worried about him yet. I could definitely be wrong though. If the team sucks it could be harder for individuals to get motivated and perform at their normal levels

I would think that players would be more professional than to allow 'feelings' to interfere with drive.

Kyle was over the middle in the first inning and the Braves teed off. That is what happened. Kyle tosses lolly pops and he can not survive challenging hitters to swing. Kyle knows how to tunnel his pitches so each offering looks like the same pitch and that is why he is able to pitch over his talent level.

But when each pitch went where the hitter expected it to go and lacked the movement. Well.

If it was me I would start tossing the hammer and work that pitch on them until the fastball command came back.

 

[zack54attack]

Theo's methods were broken from the start. It is like he had a check sheet. College player. Takes walks. Hits for power. Jed said that they would have passed on Javy in the 2011 draft because he didn't fall into their criteria. But his drive they couldn't account for.

Pitching again they wasted years of development targeting high floor college arms.

In both cases they went with safe choices and steered away from higher risk.

Year 1 they went with risk in Almora, Johnson and Underwood. None panned out but all are at least MLB players. That is part of the risk involved. Even though Almora lacked talent to be a top 10. He has a great work ethic but lacks the tools to back it up. Late 1st or later? For sure. But with a top 6 pick you really need to look at cornerstone types vs accessories.

I don't think it was broken from the start. I think the game changed and they didn't adjust. It worked for the first 2-3 years from 2015-17 but baseball has changed since then. The Cubs have tried things but it just hasn't worked and they haven't adjusted, IMO. That's the biggest problem.

And now Theo is pushing for the mound to be moved back lol

 

[knoxville7]

I don't think it was broken from the start. I think the game changed and they didn't adjust. It worked for the first 2-3 years from 2015-17 but baseball has changed since then. The Cubs have tried things but it just hasn't worked and they haven't adjusted, IMO. That's the biggest problem.

And now Theo is pushing for the mound to be moved back lol

agreed. To act like it was flawed from the beginning would be to ignore the WS championship(you know...first one in 108 years), and all the playoff appearances.

some people on here just can’t get over that it didn’t turn into a dynasty and want to act like Theo was some failure, instead of giving the guy the credit he does deserve. Not to say he was flawless, had to mention that before someone tries saying I’m some Theo apologist or whatever crap

 

[CSF77]

I don't think it was broken from the start. I think the game changed and they didn't adjust. It worked for the first 2-3 years from 2015-17 but baseball has changed since then. The Cubs have tried things but it just hasn't worked and they haven't adjusted, IMO. That's the biggest problem.

And now Theo is pushing for the mound to be moved back lol

2012 Albert Almora '16Outfielder Mater Academy Charter School(Hialeah Gardens, Florida)6
2012 Pierce Johnson Right-handed pitcher Missouri State University (Springfield, Missouri)43
2012 Paul Blackburn Right-handed pitcher Heritage High School (Brentwood, California)[a]56

2013 Kris Bryant '16Third baseman University of San Diego(San Diego, California)2[58]

2014 Kyle Schwarber '16Catcher Indiana University Bloomington (Bloomington, Indiana)4

2015 Ian Happ Outfielder University of Cincinnati (Cincinnati, Ohio)9

2016 no first-round pick

2017 Brendon Little Left-handed pitcher State College of Florida, Manatee–Sarasota (Bradenton, Florida) 27

2018 Nico Hoerner Shortstop Stanford University (Stanford, California)24

2019 Ryan Jensen Right-handed pitcher Fresno State (Fresno, California)24

2020 Ed Howard Shortstop Mount Carmel High School (Chicago, Illinois)16

Well regarding that.

picks 1-9: All position players. Almora only non college player.
picks 10-19: All position players. Went with upside vs close.
picks 20-25: College SS and a college pitcher.
picks 26-32: College pitcher.

So uhm it was safe for the most part. Almora was year 1 and they didn't go back there until their 9th draft.

The rest were safer picks. All college players that will have less development to go through.

 

[knoxville7]

And what makes that a “broken from the start system”?

also, not all of those picks were “safe“ picks. Schwarber where he was taken in the draft people said it was too early in the first round to pick a guy with no real position for example. And even if they were safe, what makes the safe choice the bad choice?

 

[CSF77]

And what makes that a “broken from the start system”?

also, not all of those picks were “safe“ picks. Schwarber where he was taken in the draft people said it was too early in the first round to pick a guy with no real position for example. And even if they were safe, what makes the safe choice the bad choice?

Safe as most MLB ready player. Schwarber IMO sucked as a pick. He was drafted to get under slot value so they could increase pool cash for later rounds.

1. Kyle Schwarber C/OF Indiana University
2. Jake Stinnett RHP Maryland
3. Mark Zagunis C Virginia Tech
4. Carson Sands LHP North Florida Christian HS
5. Justin Steele LHP George County HS (MS)
6. Dylan Cease RHP Milton HS (GA)

The Cubs will make it official Wednesday the team has signed first round draft pick Kyle Schwarber. Schwarber and the Cubs have reportedly agreed to a signing bonus of $3.125 million, which is $1,496,200 under-slot. With Kyle Schwarber ($3.125 million) and Mark Zagunis ($615,000) signing under-slot deals, the Cubs can use the $1,596,100 on other draft picks such as LHP Carson Sands, LHP Justin Steele and RHP Dylan Cease.

Dylan Cease received $1,230,500 over the Cubs sixth round slot value of $269,000 to forgo his commitment to Vanderbilt to sign with the Cubs.

So that draft was a manipulation for cash to sign Cease over slot. Cease would have been a 1st round talent until he got T.J. surgery.

 

[CSF77]

Broken from the start means Theo went with high floor picks. The majority were college pitchers that had little options and for the most part 'none' have impacted the Cubs in any meaningful way.

The vast amount of Cub pitching have come via trade. Which means their system is broken by nature.

When you draft pitching in volume year after year and have nothing to show for it it is plain and simple. Your method is broken.

Be it from scouting or development or anywhere in between.

It is what it is and until a pitcher from the Cubs drafts performs at a MLB quality (Not counting trades because another team was involved with the process for minor league talent to major league) this will hold true.

The hitting side of it has been the first pick was quick through the system and finished development on the Cubs. 3 of the players went back after a brief stint. The rest of the hitters from the drafts have not played for the Cubs.

So we are talking about Almora (#6 pick pretty much a fail),
Bryant #2 and you better hit on a #2 pick.
Schwarber mix bag and far short for a #4 pick.
Happ #9 and had a strong 2020. Wait and see right now.
Nico #24 and wait and see.

These are all 1st round picks. The only player that came out of a non 1st round that is a top 100 prospect is Brennen Davis. He should break the mold. He was a 1st round talent but came up as a basketball player and had little exposure as a baseball player. The Cubs broke ranks with his pick and went for talent > polish. And sometimes it is that gamble that is required to find the next core hitter.