Jay Cutler Was a Better QB Than Justin Fields? Prove me wrong.....

[Mighty Joe Young]

Bears are 0-3 and Fields can't see the field, misses even his second read, and is not looking good at all. He can't even toss 275 yards. He's only good for running 10+ times a game to have a chance.

This makes the Jay Cutler days seem good. That's how bad. Bears easily could have been Denver this week. Maholmes played hurt etc.

I think it's best we look at the upcoming draft. However, to the point, Chicago Bear's fans can we really now say our best last QB was Jay Cutler?

Part of the reason Cutler was both so good and so bad, was because he basically knew what he wanted to do and was going to do it, OC be damned.

But the thing is, he was a one trick pony, and it fucked up any rhythm to the offense, which is why guys like I believe Champ Bailey would talk about "Jay being Jay" when talking about their success in picking him off.

Cutler would always wait to throw deep and only at the last second would dump the ball off, which usually led to very little YAC.

Its why when he got hurt and McCown, who played within the system, took over for that stretch, played lights out between the 20s and the whole system suddenly "clicked" - McCown played the offense like it was meant to be played and hit guys on time and in rhythm, which led to a lot of YAC yards. McCowns limitations would then show up in the red zone.

Still, Cutler remains the best QB the Bears ever had by a long shot - and he was basically an average QB.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

It's almost as if you're trying to insinuate that Justin Fields would be a Hall of Fame player if they *innovated" an offense around him.

No one is saying that. But if they had handled him in that way, I think he could get up to Kirk Cousins/Dak Prescott level of above average.

Unfortunately, he also likely would end up with the same playoff records as either.

 

[jsu34]

Jay Cutler spent time developing under Mike Shanahan. He didn't need developing, which I'm sure the bears wouldn't have been able to do.

Comparing Cutler to Fields is a waste of time.

If you're trying to prove a point, compare Fields to McNown, Grossman, or Orton.

Right now, Orton and Grossman would be better. McNown was a lazy jack-wagon.

 

[mecha]

Mitch Trubisky was your last hope doh . . .

the end all stats say otherwise . . . ex bear qb's all had career best years with the bears. Once they left with another system, new staff, new teammates they sucked. McCown was teaching students in high school before the bears gave him a 2nd chance at life in the nfl, lol. So that only means one thing. Look at this list of prestige bear qb's.

Jim Miller
Josh McCown
Jay Cutler
Rex Grossman
Shane Matthews
Mitch Trubisky

clever omission of KYLE ORTON.

 

[run and shoot]

At every stop Ryan took what he had and created around the the strengths of the players.


"Bill Walsh started creating the West Coast offense in Cincinnati when he was the offensive coordinator there."

Correct. The WCO was a innovation. Do you know why Walsh did it? Hint: It deals with creating around the the strengths of the players.

It's almost as if you're trying to insinuate that Justin Fields would be a Hall of Fame player if they *innovated" an offense around him.

No you're projecting when u say "Hall of Fame player". I never said that....you did.
Please go back and answer my question. It'll make things clearer for you.

Here ya go.... The WCO was a innovation. Do you know why Walsh did it? Hint: It deals with creating around the strengths of the players.

 

[run and shoot]

JF is the most pressured Qb in the NFL. Not only Getsy's play calling.....his lack of play design and route design.
JT Sullivan has talked about Getsy's awful route combos.

nope Fields causes the pressure..

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I've read that PFF and the other 'stat stuff' . At one pointThey had the Bears OL in the top 10 with their manipulated stats.

You're avoiding what JT said.....
Not only Getsy's play calling.....his lack of play design and route design.
JT Sullivan has talked about Getsy's awful route combos.

 

[Urblock]

clever omission of KYLE ORTON.

Who?

 

[airtime143]

I never had an ounce of faith in cutler.

That said, the thread title is correct.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Bears are 0-3 and Fields can't see the field, misses even his second read, and is not looking good at all. He can't even toss 275 yards. He's only good for running 10+ times a game to have a chance.

This makes the Jay Cutler days seem good. That's how bad. Bears easily could have been Denver this week. Maholmes played hurt etc.

I think it's best we look at the upcoming draft. However, to the point, Chicago Bear's fans can we really now say our best last QB was Jay Cutler?

Who has suggested otherwise?

 

[dbldrew]

I've read that PFF and the other 'stat stuff' . At one pointThey had the Bears OL in the top 10 with their manipulated stats.

You're avoiding what JT said.....
Not only Getsy's play calling.....his lack of play design and route design.
JT Sullivan has talked about Getsy's awful route combos.

Does Getsy having some bad playcalls/designs justify Fields poor play? NO it does not.

If Fields played great with the exception of the suspect plays then you might have a point. But even though there are some odd play designs, there is also a lot of very good play designs and the called play works exactly how it should with the exception of the QB refusing to throw the ball to the open WR.

When the QB refuses to throw the ball to the open WR you cant blame shift that away, That is 100% on the QB

Basically there are 2 options here.

A- Fields and Getsy are both bad

B - Fields is bad and Getsy looks worse then he is because he is trying anything at this point to get his QB to actually throw the ball it might be a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" situation that is causing a bunch of shit plays to get called

Now I believe its more of an A situation, but Getsy calling plays for a QB who can read the D and actually throw the ball to the open guy might show a completely different OC, which is one of the reasons I want to bench Fields and go to Bagent, see what kind of plays are called with a different QB. But until that happens I'm in the camp that they are both trash

 

[cd35]

At this point right now any QB that can complete a forward pass relatively consistently is better than Fields. In an era where offense is like a video game and mediocre QBs can pass for 4k yards, Fields is yet to hit a 300 game and has multiple under a 100. But he ran over the Lions twice and Miami where no defense was played at all in 2 of those games. OK, now a year later NFL defenses know and are making him play QB.

It's not hard to tell if a genuinely good QB is being screwed and struggling to keep afloat bc the team around him sucks, which they do. The thing is Fields does too. It's year 3 and he can't read a D and hit open receivers even with time consistently, which is not a good sign.

Nagy sucked, the offense sucked, but Mitch isn't good either. Same with Fields. And not every QB is ruined by this franchise, they just pick garbage most of the time.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

No you're projecting when u say "Hall of Fame player". I never said that....you did.
Please go back and answer my question. It'll make things clearer for you.

Here ya go.... The WCO was a innovation. Do you know why Walsh did it? Hint: It deals with creating around the strengths of the players.

You always want someone to run around chasing their tail with your posts.

The only question that matters is whether or not you believe or realize how bad Justin Fields is.

You still think he's salvageable that by creating some innovative offense he'll suddenly throw for over 320 yards for the first time since high school.

 

[run and shoot]

I've read that PFF and the other 'stat stuff' . At one pointThey had the Bears OL in the top 10 with their manipulated stats.

You're avoiding what JT said.....
Not only Getsy's play calling.....his lack of play design and route design.
JT Sullivan has talked about Getsy's awful route combos.

Does Getsy having some bad playcalls/designs justify Fields poor play? NO it does not.

If Fields played great with the exception of the suspect plays then you might have a point. But even though there are some odd play designs, there is also a lot of very good play designs and the called play works exactly how it should with the exception of the QB refusing to throw the ball to the open WR.

When the QB refuses to throw the ball to the open WR you cant blame shift that away, That is 100% on the QB

Basically there are 2 options here.

A- Fields and Getsy are both bad

B - Fields is bad and Getsy looks worse then he is because he is trying anything at this point to get his QB to actually throw the ball it might be a "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" situation that is causing a bunch of shit plays to get called

Now I believe its more of an A situation, but Getsy calling plays for a QB who can read the D and actually throw the ball to the open guy might show a completely different OC, which is one of the reasons I want to bench Fields and go to Bagent, see what kind of plays are called with a different QB. But until that happens I'm in the camp that they are both trash

"Does Getsy having some bad playcalls/designs justify Fields poor play? NO it does not."

this above statement/ question..... nullifies anything else you say. Again....your taking the focus off Gestsy and making this about JF being the proverbial "whipping boy" for the Bear offense.

 

[run and shoot]

No you're projecting when u say "Hall of Fame player". I never said that....you did.
Please go back and answer my question. It'll make things clearer for you.

Here ya go.... The WCO was a innovation. Do you know why Walsh did it? Hint: It deals with creating around the strengths of the players.

You always want someone to run around chasing their tail with your posts.

The only question that matters is whether or not you believe or realize how bad Justin Fields is.

You still think he's salvageable that by creating some innovative offense he'll suddenly throw for over 320 yards for the first time since high school.

"......he'll suddenly throw for over 320 yards for the first time since high school."

Daniel....you're suppose to be a sports journalist. A good journalist always seeks the truth...right?
JF has thrown for 320 yds + twice against >>power house Clemson.

Anyway..........

Why do you dodge questions and deflect ? I brought up Walsh being a innovator. You counter with your "great players,Hall of Fame player " narrative.

I then point out>>>>The WCO was a innovation. Do you know why Walsh did it? Hint: It deals with creating around the strengths of the players..

You dodged the question and start bringing up JF. Don't be afraid of the Walsh answer. SO.... Are you going to answer the question above YES or NO ???

 

[DanielCCSBears]

"......he'll suddenly throw for over 320 yards for the first time since high school."

Daniel....you're suppose to be a sports journalist. A good journalist always seeks the truth...right?
JF has thrown for 320 yds + twice against >>power house Clemson.

Anyway..........

Why do you dodge questions and deflect ? I brought up Walsh being a innovator. You counter with your "great players,Hall of Fame player " narrative.

I then point out>>>>The WCO was a innovation. Do you know why Walsh did it? Hint: It deals with creating around the strengths of the players..

You dodged the question and start bringing up JF. Don't be afraid of the Walsh answer. SO.... Are you going to answer the question above YES or NO ???

I deflected? You said these coaches were great because of their offenses. Was Walsh great because he invented the West Coast offense? Or was he great because he had one of the greatest QBs of all time running it?

 

[Heidenlarm]

Uh... that's really not hard to do. If you're gonna challenge someone, shouldn't, you know, challenge them?

 

[run and shoot]

"......he'll suddenly throw for over 320 yards for the first time since high school."

Daniel....you're suppose to be a sports journalist. A good journalist always seeks the truth...right?
JF has thrown for 320 yds + twice against >>power house Clemson.

Anyway..........

Why do you dodge questions and deflect ? I brought up Walsh being a innovator. You counter with your "great players,Hall of Fame player " narrative.

I then point out>>>>The WCO was a innovation. Do you know why Walsh did it? Hint: It deals with creating around the strengths of the players..

You dodged the question and start bringing up JF. Don't be afraid of the Walsh answer. SO.... Are you going to answer the question above YES or NO ???

I deflected? You said these coaches were great because of their offenses. Was Walsh great because he invented the West Coast offense? Or was he great because he had one of the greatest QBs of all time running it?

Ok so it's obvious you're gonna continue playing games of deflection, diversionary questions while dodging the original question. I asked u 3x already. So.....Let me enlighten you.

Walsh was originally a "vertical passing" proponent ( see Sid Gillman). In Cincinnati 1969 Walsh had a strong-arm Qb Greg Cook. Walsh was gonna continue using the vertical passing game with Cook. Unfortunately Cook got injured and it ended his career. Virgil Carter ( he started off with the Bears)..... was next up back in 1970.

The problem was Carter had a weak arm. So Walsh, compensated for Carter's weak arm by developing "three-step drop passes." So basically. One, two, three, throw. And that's how the WCO started. Walsh created an offense to match the players skill set. Walsh later got Ken Anderson and continued successfully using the WCO with him.
Neither of these Qb's were "great, Hall of Fame players". A good coach creates around the existing talent.

You're Welcome Daniel.

 

[dbldrew]

"Does Getsy having some bad playcalls/designs justify Fields poor play? NO it does not."

this above statement/ question..... nullifies anything else you say. Again....your taking the focus off Gestsy and making this about JF being the proverbial "whipping boy" for the Bear offense.

This thread is not about getsy this thread was about the QB hence why the focus is about Fields.

If you want to start a getsy sucks thread then go ahead.

But to say that me putting blame on both of them somehow "nullifies" what I have to say shows how biased you are being here.

 

[clear]

Fields is the most overrated bad QB in NFL history.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

Ok so it's obvious you're gonna continue playing games of deflection, diversionary questions while dodging the original question. I asked u 3x already. So.....Let me enlighten you.

Walsh was originally a "vertical passing" proponent ( see Sid Gillman). In Cincinnati 1969 Walsh had a strong-arm Qb Greg Cook. Walsh was gonna continue using the vertical passing game with Cook. Unfortunately Cook got injured and it ended his career. Virgil Carter ( he started off with the Bears)..... was next up back in 1970.

The problem was Carter had a weak arm. So Walsh, compensated for Carter's weak arm by developing "three-step drop passes." So basically. One, two, three, throw. And that's how the WCO started. Walsh created an offense to match the players skill set. Walsh later got Ken Anderson and continued successfully using the WCO with him.
Neither of these Qb's were "great, Hall of Fame players". A good coach creates around the existing talent.

You're Welcome Daniel.

So Walsh was great with those QBs?

Because my original point that you ignored is it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's not the scheme.

Justin Fields is not going to be great with a scheme created around him. Justin Fields wasn't great last year as a QB. A great runner, yes, a below average passer? He'll never even be that.