Johnny Red Kerr Will Not Be Part of this HOF Class

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From My Bulls

Jordan leads Hall of Fame's Class of 2009

MJ will be enshrined during festivities in Springfield, MA September 10-12, 2009

Bulls legend Michael Jordan will headline the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame's Enshrinement Class of 2009. The five-member class, announced on Monday, also includes David Robinson, Jerry Sloan, John Stockton, and C. Vivian Stringer.

The announcement was made at a press conference in Detroit, the site of the 2009 NCAA Final Four. The induction ceremony will mark the 50th anniversary for the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.

The Class of 2009 will be enshrined during festivities in Springfield, MA September 10-12, 2009. For information on ticket packages to the 2009 Enshrinement Gala and all Enshrinement Weekend Events, visit Bulls.com now.

 

[dougthonus]

If he didn't get in this year where sympathy is probably at it's greatest then it's hard to imagine him getting in later. I'm not sure he's necessarily a HOFer. I know that's probably unpopular.

As a player it would be tough to make a case. A guy who's a three time all-star over his career is typically not someone you'd vote into the HOF. He seems like someone who should be in the Hall of very good.

His coaching career was short, and while he made the playoffs his rookie year I think there were 10 teams in the league and 8 went to the playoffs (either that or it was 12 and 8 went) and the team had a losing record. I don't know that he was a good or bad coach, but he certainly didn't do anything exceptional in his brief coaching years.

As a broadcaster he was purely a local guy, and he was largely a super homer. I enjoyed listening to Red prior to the last few years of his career, but I'm just not sure a guy who's only doing local broadcasts his HOF worthy. I don't know of any phrases he really coined that everyone uses or anything like that. I never hear any other great broadcasters go "I modeled myself off of Red Kerr".

The best case is that you say cumulatively that everything he did and how he put his whole life into the Bulls organization makes him worthy, but the Bulls organization already honored him with a statue, and only him and MJ have statues, so that's a tremendous honor. It's a higher honor, IMO, than Pippen, Jackson, Krause, Sloan, and Love received by having banners. Lots of banners, only two statues.

I don't know that Kerr has real appeal to people who aren't Bulls fans though or that his impact on non-Bulls fans is there at all or even that non Bulls fans would know who he is. He got the team's highest honor already. The HOF isn't a crazy assertion, but if I'm not a Bulls fan I'm looking at Kerr's resume and thinking .. ehh I don't know about this guy.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Yet Vivian Stringer is in the HOF :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[dougthonus]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Yet Vivian Stringer is in the HOF :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Well if I were in charge of the basketball HOF I'd probably kick out 30% of the members.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

dougthonus wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Yet Vivian Stringer is in the HOF :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Well if I were in charge of the basketball HOF I'd probably kick out 30% of the members.

true. Many dont belong.

 

[dougthonus]

If you're going to let in women's coaches then it's hard to deny Stringer.

But this is why I would separate the college and pro hall of fames. Of course, the NBA could do this, but they choose not to.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

I agree 100% with you Doug.
NBA
WNBA
Broadcasters
all should be separate

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Question for you guys: Will Dennis get into the Hall?
He has the rings, he has the numbers etc. however many voters will look down upon the way he acted but I feel they shouldn't look at that and just look at the stats. How do you guys feel?

 

[Newskoolbulls]

also isn't he eligible for next year?

 

[dougthonus]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Question for you guys: Will Dennis get into the Hall?
He has the rings, he has the numbers etc. however many voters will look down upon the way he acted but I feel they shouldn't look at that and just look at the stats. How do you guys feel?

His overall stats aren't real impressive, but the fact that he's perhaps the games greatest ever rebounder is probably enough to get him in. That + 5 rings, and he was a very big part of three of them.

However the ring thing is interesting when you aren't #1 or #2 (and Dennis clearly was never #1 or #2), because Robert Horry was a key contributor a bunch of title teams, but I don't know that you let him in.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

dougthonus wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Question for you guys: Will Dennis get into the Hall?
He has the rings, he has the numbers etc. however many voters will look down upon the way he acted but I feel they shouldn't look at that and just look at the stats. How do you guys feel?

His overall stats aren't real impressive, but the fact that he's perhaps the games greatest ever rebounder is probably enough to get him in. That + 5 rings, and he was a very big part of three of them.

However the ring thing is interesting when you aren't #1 or #2 (and Dennis clearly was never #1 or #2), because Robert Horry was a key contributor a bunch of title teams, but I don't know that you let him in.

Rodman was a #3 on those Bulls teams and without him do they win 3 rings?

 

[Newskoolbulls]

considering he came from a small school and was a 27th pick and what he did, he diserves it. His career scoring numbers were under ten however he averaged nearly 14 rebounds a game, truly amazing.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Also you guys do know Dennis could score right? he averaged over 20 in college however his coach told him that he could help the team win more by doing the dirty work. Dennis had some nice scoring games in the NBA but that wasnt him, he was happy getting rebounds and kicking it out to Isiah, Joe D, Robinson, Avery, MJ, and Pip. He may have not have gotten along with his teammates off the court however on the court his teammates loved him.

 

[dougthonus]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Rodman was a #3 on those Bulls teams and without him do they win 3 rings?

You take Rodman over Kukoc? He started, but I don't know that he was more important. He was certainly billed as the 3rd of a big 3, but I think Kukoc may have been more important.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Both were important Doug however Rodman was the one who slowed down the opposing teams big men. It could go either way.

 

[collisrost]

dougthonus wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Question for you guys: Will Dennis get into the Hall?
He has the rings, he has the numbers etc. however many voters will look down upon the way he acted but I feel they shouldn't look at that and just look at the stats. How do you guys feel?

His overall stats aren't real impressive, but the fact that he's perhaps the games greatest ever rebounder is probably enough to get him in. That + 5 rings, and he was a very big part of three of them.

However the ring thing is interesting when you aren't #1 or #2 (and Dennis clearly was never #1 or #2), because Robert Horry was a key contributor a bunch of title teams, but I don't know that you let him in.

I don't know about that. I think Dennis and Scottie were #2a and #2b. I mean the Bulls absolutely needed a premier defensive big man and a premier rebounder just as much as they needed Scottie's play. I can remember a bunch of games where Rodman basically won the game when the Bulls weren't shooting well by getting a bunch of offensive boards and shutting down the other team's best frontcourt player.

In the case of Robert Horry, I guess the quote applies, "Some people are born great, some people achieve greatness and some people have greatness thrust upon them." Horry certainly wasn't a great player but he was in the right place at the right time and had greatness thrust upon him. So undeserving as he may be talent-wise, I think you have to put him into consideration because of his accomplishments anyway.

 

[collisrost]

dougthonus wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Question for you guys: Will Dennis get into the Hall?
He has the rings, he has the numbers etc. however many voters will look down upon the way he acted but I feel they shouldn't look at that and just look at the stats. How do you guys feel?

His overall stats aren't real impressive, but t

 

[Newskoolbulls]

quote
I don't know about that. I think Dennis and Scottie were #2a and #2b. I mean the Bulls absolutely needed a premier defensive big man and a premier rebounder just as much as they needed Scottie's play. I can remember a bunch of games where Rodman basically won the game when the Bulls weren't shooting well by getting a bunch of offensive boards and shutting down the other team's best frontcourt player.

In the case of Robert Horry, I guess the quote applies, "Some people are born great, some people achieve greatness and some people have greatness thrust upon them." Horry certainly wasn't a great player but he was in the right place at the right time and had greatness thrust upon him. So undeserving as he may be talent-wise, I think you have to put him into consideration because of his accomplishments anyway.[/quote]


Very well said about Dennis and Robert.

 

[dougthonus]

I don't know about that. I think Dennis and Scottie were #2a and #2b. I mean the Bulls absolutely needed a premier defensive big man and a premier rebounder just as much as they needed Scottie's play.

No way do I put Rodman anywhere near Pippen. Defensively, Pippen was better. He may be the greatest perimeter defender of all time in his prime. Offensively, Pippen was better by a million. Pippen was a legit MVP candidate when Jordan was gone, Rodman could never be anywhere near that kind of player IMO.

In the case of Robert Horry, I guess the quote applies, "Some people are born great, some people achieve greatness and some people have greatness thrust upon them." Horry certainly wasn't a great player but he was in the right place at the right time and had greatness thrust upon him. So undeserving as he may be talent-wise, I think you have to put him into consideration because of his accomplishments anyway.

Horry has had such an interesting career. I believe he's the only player in the history of the league to win mulitple titles on three separate franchises. He might be the only player to even win titles on three separate franchises.

However beyond the fact that he cherry picked his teams, Horry's been such a key contributor to each of those championship wins beyond the role you would expect. He's got to be in the top few players in the history of the league in playoff game winners.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

dougthonus wrote:

I don't know about that. I think Dennis and Scottie were #2a and #2b. I mean the Bulls absolutely needed a premier defensive big man and a premier rebounder just as much as they needed Scottie's play.

No way do I put Rodman anywhere near Pippen. Defensively, Pippen was better. He may be the greatest perimeter defender of all time in his prime. Offensively, Pippen was better by a million. Pippen was a legit MVP candidate when Jordan was gone, Rodman could never be anywhere near that kind of player IMO.

In the case of Robert Horry, I guess the quote applies, "Some people are born great, some people achieve greatness and some people have greatness thrust upon them." Horry certainly wasn't a great player but he was in the right place at the right time and had greatness thrust upon him. So undeserving as he may be talent-wise, I think you have to put him into consideration because of his accomplishments anyway.

Horry has had such an interesting career. I believe he's the only player in the history of the league to win mulitple titles on three separate franchises. He might be the only player to even win titles on three separate franchises.

However beyond the fact that he cherry picked his teams, Horry's been such a key contributor to each of those championship wins beyond the role you would expect. He's got to be in the top few players in the history of the league in playoff game winners.

Doug
John Salley won in Detroit, Chicago, and LA
i am pretty sure there has to be another one or two scrubs that it has happened to (not saying Horry was a scrub).