Johnny Red Kerr Will Not Be Part of this HOF Class

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Newskoolbulls wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

I don't know about that. I think Dennis and Scottie were #2a and #2b. I mean the Bulls absolutely needed a premier defensive big man and a premier rebounder just as much as they needed Scottie's play.

No way do I put Rodman anywhere near Pippen. Defensively, Pippen was better. He may be the greatest perimeter defender of all time in his prime. Offensively, Pippen was better by a million. Pippen was a legit MVP candidate when Jordan was gone, Rodman could never be anywhere near that kind of player IMO.

In the case of Robert Horry, I guess the quote applies, "Some people are born great, some people achieve greatness and some people have greatness thrust upon them." Horry certainly wasn't a great player but he was in the right place at the right time and had greatness thrust upon him. So undeserving as he may be talent-wise, I think you have to put him into consideration because of his accomplishments anyway.

Horry has had such an interesting career. I believe he's the only player in the history of the league to win mulitple titles on three separate franchises. He might be the only player to even win titles on three separate franchises.

However beyond the fact that he cherry picked his teams, Horry's been such a key contributor to each of those championship wins beyond the role you would expect. He's got to be in the top few players in the history of the league in playoff game winners.

Doug
John Salley won in Detroit, Chicago, and LA
i am pretty sure there has to be another one or two scrubs that it has happened to (not saying Horry was a scrub).

What made Horry great was the game winning shots and the foul on Nash that got Amare suspended.

 

[dougthonus]

John Salley won in Detroit, Chicago, and LA
i am pretty sure there has to be another one or two scrubs that it has happened to (not saying Horry was a scrub).

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070709214001AAWGtHX

According to yahoo answers only Salley and Horry have won rings with three teams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ociation_players_with_most_championship_rings

These are the guys with the most rings. Horry's the only guy on this list to have won rings with three teams (Salley only has four rings so he's not on there).

It's possible there's another guy with four rings who's not represented in the three team thing, but it seems likely that there isn't given that few players changed teams if you go back too far, and the recent guys would probably be remembered.

Of course Horry, unlike Salley, was a contributor on each of his teams championships. A major contributor most of the time.

 

[Gene]

It's a shame he hasn't gotten in. I agree though, if he didn't get the sympathy vote this year, he probably never will.

Now that he is gone he will probably be forgotten by the HOF. At least he has a little piece of the HOF.

 

[Ton]

LINK



Sounds like Kessel and Wilson aren't on the same page at all. What does Burke do? Swallow his pride and admit that Kessel was a mistake or fire his coach?



Personally, I would get rid of both.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Burke has too much pride... this could get interesting... personally, I love watching fat **** squirm.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

It's nice to see that the Hawks are 3+ years removed from being the laughing stock of all of hockey.

Game on, gentlemen.

 

[supraman]

Well Phil I guess your ass shoulda signed in Boston, you know a team that seems to be in the mix for the cup instead of living in basement of the standings. So yeah how's that working out for ya champ.



I have a soft spot for the Leafs O6 and all but Kessel...**** him

 

[chasman]

Burke has too much pride... this could get interesting... personally, I love watching fat **** squirm.

Which fat **** are you referring to?

 

[CLWolf81]

Burke has too much pride... this could get interesting... personally, I love watching fat **** squirm.

Plus, Ron is almost like family to him. I seriously doubt anything will happen with that.



Kessel might end up on the trading block as a result. I will not be surprised if that happens.

 

[whalerhawk]

Plus, Ron is almost like family to him. I seriously doubt anything will happen with that.



Kessel might end up on the trading block as a result. I will not be surprised if that happens.

I would be STUNNED if that happened. Burke gave up three number one draft picks for the guy, only one of which has been cashed in so far. He's not going to get two number 1's in return so any trade he makes would be admitting defeat and Burke would get roasted in Toronto if the team had A. no #1 picks for two years and B. nothing to show for it other than spare parts. Burke has too much pride for that. I don't see a trade happening whatsoever. Wilson will be gone long before Kessel is.



I'm not defending Kessel because he's obviously part of the problem too, but whenever it becomes a player vs. coach thing, the players always get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

Boy here's a surprise, Kessel being a ******, would have never guessed. I wouldn't touch the guy with a 50 foot pole if I was a GM. He's incredibly overrated, and he's an absolute puke.

 

[CLWolf81]

I would be STUNNED if that happened. Burke gave up three number one draft picks for the guy, only one of which has been cashed in so far. He's not going to get two number 1's in return so any trade he makes would be admitting defeat and Burke would get roasted in Toronto if the team had A. no #1 picks for two years and B. nothing to show for it other than spare parts. Burke has too much pride for that. I don't see a trade happening whatsoever. Wilson will be gone long before Kessel is.



I'm not defending Kessel because he's obviously part of the problem too, but whenever it becomes a player vs. coach thing, the players always get the benefit of the doubt.

That's the fun part about this discussion. Toronto sacrificed a lot to get Kessel. Burke's got a HUGE decision here. Go with his heart and fire Wilson, or go with his reputation and trade Kessel. Very tough call, but it needs to happen if Toronto wants to get out of the basement.



I know that Wilson is a very close friend of Burke's, but it will likely take a situation similar to how Burke got Randy Carlyle to be the Ducks coach years ago for Toronto to go anyplace. The Leafs themselves need to eat their pride and just start from scratch. Hire a minor league coach with a lot of rep, like the Tampa Bay coach... draft very well, and then Toronto may be formidable in the future. For now, they're stuck without any other choice left.



The ball is now in his court. Let's see what he makes of it.

 

[MassHavoc]

Two guys Burke went out of his way for, Wilson and Kessel, not working out. Sounds like it's time for Burke to go.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Time for KESSEL TO CALGARY rumors.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

I used to be a big fan of "Phil the Thrill", I was even upset the Hawks passed on him for Toews (I know), but boy am I glad I was wrong on him.



He's a ****** and he has an incredible ego.

 

[the canadian dream]

Lol Kessel is a prime example of a guy who thinks he is better than he is. Burke did **** up on this one and by doing so he also added unfair pressure on a guy who had to live up to the hype of being worth those high draft picks. And I think Kessel began believing that hype himself just a little too much.



This all equals a big giant shit show in Toronto so I am not surprised. It's going to be fun to see where it goes.



By the way not a big Wilson fan either but **** he did a good job at firing back at Kessel and he was right. Loved how he said Kessel doesn't put enough focus on the other parts of the game besides scoring (which he hasn't been doing). That's some reality coaching and probably best that Kessel hears the truth. If he can't handle it then he is a bigger baby than thought. It's obvious where Wilson stands on the issue and who he sides with. Obviously the funny grey haired guy who hired him.



Sad thing is if delt Kessel wins anyways. Who in their right minds really wants to play for the Leafs? I would be telling the press I slept with Burkes wife and gave Wilsons a ride on Thunder Mountain if it ment getting delt out of there.



Leafs ownership won't fire Burke. Like they give a shit..the money keeps going into the bank regardless. This whole thing is awsome though. Love when the Leaf nation is in an uproar and all messy like this. Makes me a proud hockey fan.

 

[CLWolf81]

Lol Kessel is a prime example of a guy who thinks he is better than he is. Burke did **** up on this one and by doing so he also added unfair pressure on a guy who had to live up to the hype of being worth those high draft picks. And I think Kessel began believing that hype himself just a little too much.



This all equals a big giant shit show in Toronto so I am not surprised. It's going to be fun to see where it goes.



By the way not a big Wilson fan either but **** he did a good job at firing back at Kessel and he was right. Loved how he said Kessel doesn't put enough focus on the other parts of the game besides scoring (which he hasn't been doing). That's some reality coaching and probably best that Kessel hears the truth. If he can't handle it then he is a bigger baby than thought. It's obvious where Wilson stands on the issue and who he sides with. Obviously the funny grey haired guy who hired him.



Sad thing is if delt Kessel wins anyways. Who in their right minds really wants to play for the Leafs? I would be telling the press I slept with Burkes wife and gave Wilsons a ride on Thunder Mountain if it ment getting delt out of there.



Leafs ownership won't fire Burke. Like they give a shit..the money keeps going into the bank regardless. This whole thing is awsome though. Love when the Leaf nation is in an uproar and all messy like this. Makes me a proud hockey fan.

When Toronto is considered the "trash" of the hockey world, then I think we can all be happy. I doubt that will happen unless Burke ever considered to give Kessel a 15-yr contract. Until the Isles get back to at least mediocrity, they're still the joke of the league. I assure you, though, Toronto is a very close second.



Seeing this drama unfolding, though, they're still making it entertaining.

 

[supraman]

I'd rather have Montreal be the "trash" of hockey. After playing the NHL series online yeah French Canadians (except Ton silly frog man) are the scum of the earth. Sorry I fucking hate french canadians after the shit they pull in online play in NHL 09, NHL 10, NHL 11. **** those people they should be enslaved