Jordan Howard/Nagy vs. Urlacher/Trestman

[Rory Sparrow]

Really no comparison at all. Urlacher was a legend at that point.

Yep, that was exactly what I said. Jordan Howard is like the Brian Urlacher of RBs. You nailed it.

Howard was 2 years in and the entire offense was already being largely changed over.

Yep, those are factually correct statements that I COMPLETELY misspoke about in my post. Howard WAS 2 years in, and the offense WAS being changed with the hiring of Nagy. I don't know why I didn't mention either of those things.

Who is going to be upset exactly? Taylor Gabriel? Trey Burton?

Yep, those two guys in particular, because they wouldn't have even been on the Bears roster prior to Jordan Howard's departure.

Also ignores the obvious. If Trestman had won people would have gotten over it. The issue is he didn't win.

Yep, "ignoring the obvious" is when you completely rewrite what actually happened. The lockerroom under Trestman was a mess: fact. The Bears franchise ended up being a joke under Trestman: fact. Trestman inherited a 10-6 team and his record with the Bears was 13-19: fact.

I love your logic usage, once again. Its like responding to criticism of Pace's first draft by saying "Yeah, but you are also ignoring the obvious. If Kevin White had three consecutive 1000-yard seasons, then people wouldn't be giving Ryan Pace so much grief for drafting him."

Stupidity at its most glorious!

 

[Bearly]

Value extends beyond payroll and picks.

 

[Mdbearz]

Two different Men completely.

Trestman was not a leader regardless of what moves were made he was not going to earn the respect of the team.

I believe Nagy could have release Urlacher and would have still maintained the locker room.

 

[remydat]

Yep, that was exactly what I said. Jordan Howard is like the Brian Urlacher of RBs. You nailed it.

Yep, those are factually correct statements that I COMPLETELY misspoke about in my post. Howard WAS 2 years in, and the offense WAS being changed with the hiring of Nagy. I don't know why I didn't mention either of those things.

Yep, those two guys in particular, because they wouldn't have even been on the Bears roster prior to Jordan Howard's departure.

Yep, "ignoring the obvious" is when you completely rewrite what actually happened. The lockerroom under Trestman was a mess: fact. The Bears franchise ended up being a joke under Trestman: fact. Trestman inherited a 10-6 team and his record with the Bears was 13-19: fact.

I love your logic usage, once again. Its like responding to criticism of Pace's first draft by saying "Yeah, but you are also ignoring the obvious. If Kevin White had three consecutive 1000-yard seasons, then people wouldn't be giving Ryan Pace so much grief for drafting him."

Stupidity at its most glorious!

Unless you telling me we lose and miss the playoffs with Howard gone and a new RB in his place then none of what you are saying matters. If a new coach wins then people will get over his dumping a RB. See this offseason for proof. So even if he rubbed a few players the wrong way initially, winning would make them get over it pretty quick.

If Trestman dumped Urlacher and went on to a playoff season, people would let it slide. Winning is what matters in the NFL. Not any of this other dumb shit. A bunch of players hated Ditka, Ryan and each other on the 85 Bears. No one gives a shit because they won. Pretty simple concept.

 

[remydat]

Two different Men completely.

Trestman was not a leader regardless of what moves were made he was not going to earn the respect of the team.

I believe Nagy could have release Urlacher and would have still maintained the locker room.

Trestmen appeared to be a classic beta. Not much of a leader but someone who was competent at running an offense. Problem was you need a leader at HC.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Unless you telling me we lose and miss the playoffs with Howard gone and a new RB in his place then none of what you are saying matters.

I get what you are saying, but I think its a possibility that the Bears miss the playoffs last year with Howard gone. Not sure if you remember, but the Bears were at 3-3 after 6 games so its not like the Bears came out like gangbusters and coasted into the postseason.

So even if he rubbed a few players the wrong way initially, winning would make them get over it pretty quick.

I thought it was interesting how quickly and how immensely the wheels fell off for the Trestman era. They went from just missing the postseason to routinely losing games by giving up 55 points. The downfall was immediate. The Bears gave up. I don't think that happens with an established leader as HC, and Trestman's leadership was doomed from the start with the Urlacher move.

If Trestman dumped Urlacher and went on to a playoff season, people would let it slide. Winning is what matters in the NFL. Not any of this other dumb shit. A bunch of players hated Ditka, Ryan and each other on the 85 Bears. No one gives a shit because they won. Pretty simple concept.

I think at some point in the season every team faces adversity. If you have a fractured locker room, then it makes it that much more difficult to bounce back from adversity. That's what you saw in the Trestman era...as soon as adversity hit, the team bottomed out and never recovered.

Good use of the 1985 Bears as an example. Very relevant and logical. Have a roster filled with HOF and All-Pro caliber players. You might go to a Super Bowl, even win one. Nagy should follow that outline. "Go 15-1, win Super Bowl...the rest of the details will sort themselves out."

 

[remydat]

I get what you are saying, but I think its a possibility that the Bears miss the playoffs last year with Howard gone. Not sure if you remember, but the Bears were at 3-3 after 6 games so its not like the Bears came out like gangbusters and coasted into the postseason.

I thought it was interesting how quickly and how immensely the wheels fell off for the Trestman era. They went from just missing the postseason to routinely losing games by giving up 55 points. The downfall was immediate. The Bears gave up. I don't think that happens with an established leader as HC, and Trestman's leadership was doomed from the start with the Urlacher move.

I think at some point in the season every team faces adversity. If you have a fractured locker room, then it makes it that much more difficult to bounce back from adversity. That's what you saw in the Trestman era...as soon as adversity hit, the team bottomed out and never recovered.

Good use of the 1985 Bears as an example. Very relevant and logical. Have a roster filled with HOF and All-Pro caliber players. You might go to a Super Bowl, even win one. Nagy should follow that outline. "Go 15-1, win Super Bowl...the rest of the details will sort themselves out."

The Bears took off because of Trubs and the D not Howard. Howard didn't really pick things up until after Trubs shoulder injury as his 2 100 yard games were during the last 4 games of the season. So I don't think they miss the playoffs without him especially since his replacement would likely have been someone Nagy deemed to be a better pass catcher who could run ie someone that was more dynamic.

The downfall of Trestman was in large part because of Trestman's own flaws and Mel Tucker. You can listen to Trestman and Nagy and understand they have two completely different personalities. Nagy gives off an aura whereby you would follow him into battle. Trestman gives off an aura whereby you wouldn't want to follow him to the grocery store.

If Briggs tried to pull the shit on Nagy and Fangio that he pulled on Trestman and Tucker, I have no doubt that Nagy and more importantly Fangio would have put him in his place. So I think you are ignoring the personalities involved. Nagy and Fangio are much better leaders who wouldn't take shit compared to Trestman and Tucker. Hence why Trestman in the CFL and Tucker in college where his weak leadership can't be challenged by millionaires making more than him. A guy like Trestman needs more of a disciplinarian as assistant coaches. Instead what you had is a bunch of betas trying to run a team of alphas.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

The Bears took off because of Trubs and the D not Howard. Howard didn't really pick things up until after Trubs shoulder injury as his 2 100 yard games were during the last 4 games of the season. So I don't think they miss the playoffs without him especially since his replacement would likely have been someone Nagy deemed to be a better pass catcher who could run ie someone that was more dynamic.

I tend to have no idea to whom you are speaking or what actually you are responding to, and this is one of those instances.

 

[onebud34]

The Bears took off because of Trubs and the D not Howard. Howard didn't really pick things up until after Trubs shoulder injury as his 2 100 yard games were during the last 4 games of the season. So I don't think they miss the playoffs without him especially since his replacement would likely have been someone Nagy deemed to be a better pass catcher who could run ie someone that was more dynamic.

The downfall of Trestman was in large part because of Trestman's own flaws and Mel Tucker. You can listen to Trestman and Nagy and understand they have two completely different personalities. Nagy gives off an aura whereby you would follow him into battle. Trestman gives off an aura whereby you wouldn't want to follow him to the grocery store.

If Briggs tried to pull the shit on Nagy and Fangio that he pulled on Trestman and Tucker, I have no doubt that Nagy and more importantly Fangio would have put him in his place. So I think you are ignoring the personalities involved. Nagy and Fangio are much better leaders who wouldn't take shit compared to Trestman and Tucker. Hence why Trestman in the CFL and Tucker in college where his weak leadership can't be challenged by millionaires making more than him. A guy like Trestman needs more of a disciplinarian as assistant coaches. Instead what you had is a bunch of betas trying to run a team of alphas.

So...

Nagy=Prince
Trestman=Morris Day

#amiright

 

[SlickWilly]

The Bears took off because of Trubs and the D not Howard. Howard didn't really pick things up until after Trubs shoulder injury as his 2 100 yard games were during the last 4 games of the season. So I don't think they miss the playoffs without him especially since his replacement would likely have been someone Nagy deemed to be a better pass catcher who could run ie someone that was more dynamic.

The downfall of Trestman was in large part because of Trestman's own flaws and Mel Tucker. You can listen to Trestman and Nagy and understand they have two completely different personalities. Nagy gives off an aura whereby you would follow him into battle. Trestman gives off an aura whereby you wouldn't want to follow him to the grocery store.

If Briggs tried to pull the shit on Nagy and Fangio that he pulled on Trestman and Tucker, I have no doubt that Nagy and more importantly Fangio would have put him in his place. So I think you are ignoring the personalities involved. Nagy and Fangio are much better leaders who wouldn't take shit compared to Trestman and Tucker. Hence why Trestman in the CFL and Tucker in college where his weak leadership can't be challenged by millionaires making more than him. A guy like Trestman needs more of a disciplinarian as assistant coaches. Instead what you had is a bunch of betas trying to run a team of alphas.

That's really a moot point because Briggs wouldn't have pulled that shit on Fangio.

 

[remydat]

I tend to have no idea to whom you are speaking or what actually you are responding to, and this is one of those instances.

You are saying we miss playoffs without Howard and we were 3-3. I am saying we made the playoffs because of Trubs and the D. So no I dont think we miss playoffs without Howard.

 

[remydat]

That's really a moot point because Briggs wouldn't have pulled that shit on Fangio.

Either way the point is Fangio and Nagy are not Trestman and Tucker so this idea that things would fall apart because we traded Howard is laughable.

 

[onebud34]

You are saying we miss playoffs without Howard and we were 3-3. I am saying we made the playoffs because of Trubs and the D. So no I dont think we miss playoffs without Howard.

It's interesting you think that's what he's saying

 

[remydat]

It's interesting you think that's what he's saying

Yes he is suggesting we possibly miss the playoffs without Howard despite the fact Howard was not a determining factor in the majority of games this year.

I get what you are saying, but I think its a possibility that the Bears miss the playoffs last year with Howard gone. Not sure if you remember, but the Bears were at 3-3 after 6 games so its not like the Bears came out like gangbusters and coasted into the postseason.

The irony here is the reason we were 3-3 was precisely because Howard was ineffectual early and we started winning not because he got better but because Trubs got better and the D carried us.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

...and we started winning not because he got better but because Trubs got better and the D carried us.

Again, I tend to have no idea to whom you are speaking or what actually you are responding to, and this is one of those instances.

 

[mecha]

I never thought Howard was an impressive runner. his track record through 2016-2017 however proved that he was a viable piece to an offense devoid of talent. I thought he was kind of burned out from overuse. to a point earlier in this thread, I see it like Nagy just kind of gave up on him because he wasn't the dynamic player that he had in KC, like I said, his running style exhibited nothing impressive. I could only imagine what Forte would've been like in the Nagy offense, oh shit. you would also think though Nagy could've tried harder to put him in a position to succeed... I think the key to that was more than 10 runs a game. same shit happened with Forte/Martz, at least in that scenario the unit came around and realized Forte was needed to succeed.

Trestman ran a good offense cause he had the best personnel since probably the 80s Bears to run it with. his defensive coordinator, and most likely the fractured locker room, is what sunk those teams. regardless, he was still a pussy. even if they were good all around he would've lost it all anyway. he already set the team back 5 years, who knows what would've happened if he actually had some success.

 

[remydat]

Again, I tend to have no idea to whom you are speaking or what actually you are responding to, and this is one of those instances.

Lol I quoted your words. Nice backtracking.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Lol I quoted your words. Nice backtracking.

No, the problem is you quote me and then your first sentence is, I assume, in response to someone else. "The Bears took off because of the D and Trubs"...ok? Did I say otherwise? Do you honestly think I said "The reason the Bears made the playoffs in 2018 is because Jordan Howard's performance"? I guess it doesn't matter, because you would still fail to make a cogent point in this thread.

 

[onebud34]

Yes he is suggesting we possibly miss the playoffs without Howard despite the fact Howard was not a determining factor in the majority of games this year.

Your inability to comprehend the OP is troubling for anyone who uses English as their primary language

 

[remydat]

No, the problem is you quote me and then your first sentence is, I assume, in response to someone else. "The Bears took off because of the D and Trubs"...ok? Did I say otherwise? Do you honestly think I said "The reason the Bears made the playoffs in 2018 is because Jordan Howard's performance"? I guess it doesn't matter, because you would still fail to make a cogent point in this thread.

LMFAO. Saying it is possible they miss the playoffs with Howard gone is suggesting that Howard was necessary to make the playoffs. Talk about trying to split hairs. You are clearly speculating that without Howard, we miss the playoffs and I am saying that is a pretty absurd position to take given his actual performance.

I get what you are saying, but I think its a possibility that the Bears miss the playoffs last year with Howard gone. Not sure if you remember, but the Bears were at 3-3 after 6 games so its not like the Bears came out like gangbusters and coasted into the postseason.

Here let me make it easy. Whatever you are trying to say with the bold is wrong IMO. THe Bears still make the playoffs with Howard gone IMO. Sorry.