Kobe vs. Michael

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Kush, you brought up an excellent point in a recent show when you said "Why doesn't anyone ever say Kobe vs. Michael when Kobe isn't doing anything?"

Even further than that, if i remember, in the Celtics series didnt the Lakers lose that game by 39 points?

Let's ask this question the next time some Lakers fan tries to tell us Kobe was better.

Would Michael Jordan ever lose by 39 points in a championship-deciding game like that? Did Michael Jordan ever lose an NBA Finals?

No and no.

Case closed.

But what about this question...

The Lakers currently have Kobe, Pau, Artest, Fisher and Odom among others. For all we know this could very well be the birth of a dynasty.

If the Lakers win 3 more, that would give Kobe 7 rings, 1 more than Jordan.

Therefore if Kobe wins 3 more will that mean he was a greater player than Jordan?

Or in simpler words, is 7-2 better than 6-0?

 

[vhans5219]

but undefeated is way better in the finals
and even if kobe still wins more rings i'd still take
Michael

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

vhans5219 wrote:

but undefeated is way better in the finals
and even if kobe still wins more rings i'd still take
Michael

Me too.

 

[pinkizdead]

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

But what about this question...

The Lakers currently have Kobe, Pau, Artest, Fisher and Odom among others. For all we know this could very well be the birth of a dynasty.

If the Lakers win 3 more, that would give Kobe 7 rings, 1 more than Jordan.

Therefore if Kobe wins 3 more will that mean he was a greater player than Jordan?

Or in simpler words, is 7-2 better than 6-0?

with that logic, bill russell rocks!

 

[houheffna]

I think what separates Michael from Kobe is how strong Michael was mentally. Kobe is just as athletic, and can do everything on the court that Jordan can do...he just doesn't have the mental toughness to Jordan's level.

 

[Bullsman24]

ok, if kobe needs himself, a low post all star, defensive stopper, effectively steve kerr, and a high/low post player to do what MJ did with mj, scottie, pax, kerr, bj, these guys are solid, but only mj and scottie were even all stars. kobe's only won with huge low post presences, which MJ never had.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Is there a verdict yet on why he switched to No. 24? There's a rumor he did it because 24 is one greater than 23.

Anyone know if this is true?

 

[charity stripe]

He did it as a reminder that there are 24 hours in a day, which keeps him motivated to work hard each day.

 

[houheffna]

ok, if kobe needs himself, a low post all star, defensive stopper, effectively steve kerr, and a high/low post player to do what MJ did with mj, scottie, pax, kerr, bj, these guys are solid, but only mj and scottie were even all stars. kobe's only won with huge low post presences, which MJ never had.

I don't quite understand what you are saying...are you saying that Kobe couldn't have won with Scottie?

 

[Bullsman24]

no, scottie pippen is less than shaq, and really just a consistent lamar odom, but MJ won 6 titles with that. MJ and pau coulda won tons of titles, huge inside/outside game

 

[houheffna]

no, scottie pippen is less than shaq, and really just a consistent lamar odom, but MJ won 6 titles with that. MJ and pau coulda won tons of titles, huge inside/outside game

Scottie Pippen is much more than a consistent Lamar Odom. One of the reasons the Lakers haven't won previous to this year is because the Lakers tried to make Odom a Pippen type player, and that plan failed miserably. To call the player that arguably is the best defensive player in league history and dismiss him as a consistent Lamar Odom is not doing his career justice.

 

[clonetrooper264]

houheffna wrote:

no, scottie pippen is less than shaq, and really just a consistent lamar odom, but MJ won 6 titles with that. MJ and pau coulda won tons of titles, huge inside/outside game

Scottie Pippen is much more than a consistent Lamar Odom. One of the reasons the Lakers haven't won previous to this year is because the Lakers tried to make Odom a Pippen type player, and that plan failed miserably. To call the player that arguably is the best defensive player in league history and dismiss him as a consistent Lamar Odom is not doing his career justice.

Best defensive player in history? Not sure I would agree with that, I think MJ was a better defender myself. Best defensive SF for sure.

 

[houheffna]

Best defensive player in history? Not sure I would agree with that, I think MJ was a better defender myself. Best defensive SF for sure.

Jordan didn't guard the other teams best wing player, Pippen did. Jordan preserved energy for offense, because many times the Bulls offense could become anemic. Pippen's job was to be the ultimate defender. When Jordan got sick and scored the 38pts, Pippen, according to Phil Jackson, had to guard two men, his, and Jordan's. Pippen could guard the opposing team's PG,SG,SF,and even PF at times. I believe that Pippen was the best wing defender, which is more challenging than the defense that is lauded at times in the frontcourt. Pippen had no weaknesses defensively in his prime and his dexterity on that side of the ball may be unparalleled. I believe that is why people like Hinrich's defensive capabilities. He can guard so many positions for a guy his size, its an uncanny basketball ability to have.

 

[houheffna]

Here is the same question asked to Charley Rosen, who I am impartial to because I put him at the very top in basketball writing, just a notch above Sam Smith...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9738016/Answering-your-NBA-questions:-Greatest-ever?

Also, has differing opinion from me on Pippen...but he is always an interesting read.

 

[charity stripe]

houheffna wrote:

Here is the same question asked to Charley Rosen, who I am impartial to because I put him at the very top in basketball writing, just a notch above Sam Smith....

I just choked on my food reading that :side:

 

[houheffna]

I just choked on my food reading that

Well get yourself together, go outside and get some fresh air, and while you are out there, try not to eat and read at the same time, might be a bit of a challenge for you.

 

[pinkizdead]

houheffna wrote:

ok, if kobe needs himself, a low post all star, defensive stopper, effectively steve kerr, and a high/low post player to do what MJ did with mj, scottie, pax, kerr, bj, these guys are solid, but only mj and scottie were even all stars. kobe's only won with huge low post presences, which MJ never had.

I don't quite understand what you are saying...are you saying that Kobe couldn't have won with Scottie?

i dont believe he could.

look at the lakers team that won

bynum
gasol
ariza
kobe
and fisher.

fisher sucks. we all see it. he's hit some clutch shots, but he sucks.


farmar sucks too. for a bench player he's not terrible.
vujaic is decent offensively, but he sucks. holy crap does he suck. i dont think he scored during the finals. wow does he suck. i dont understand how he gets playing time. i suppose it's his annoying defense? the pest?
morrison he sucks. i'm glad he didnt play
benga he sucks too. i think he played for 2-3 minutes.

walton is a decent role player. i like him for that
odom. he should be starting on every team other than the lakers. he allows the worlds crappiest bench to a rather good bench/amazing bench.
powell. he was a good player. i liked him.
brown. a decent spark off the bench. he might be able to take over fishers starting spot if he learns to hit his shots with consistency.

brown/farmar-pg brown/vujaic-sg walton/odom-sf odom/walton/powell-pf gasol/bynum/odom at the c


that isn't a terrible bench. For the most part Bynum provided a solid post presence as a center off the bench. powell hit alot of outside shots. walton is a good facilitator and a decent player. brown is a good player off the bench. he added a spark when it was needed. farmar had his moments.


Gasol is amazing. he is ever so talented. i'm so glad we passed up on him. he was practically unstopable against the magic. Even with dwight howard playing, gasol managed to get his shot.

the gasol bynum duo is difficult to play against. there is so much height in the lanes, that you cant easily shoot over/around them.

odom played rather well.

ariza is 6-9. he's an agile defender who can hit the outside shot.
kobe is good. he might be the best player in the nba.

Really? kobe plays with the best talent in the nba.

michael played with pippen. PIPPEN! that's it. Really luc longley and steve kerr weren't anything too special. they were amazing talents, but they weren't anything over and above that.

If michael had half the talent surrounding kobe, the bulls would have been an 80 win team.

 

[pinkizdead]

admittidly grant, kukoc, armstrong, and rodman weren't crappy players, but they really weren't superstars/all stars.

kobe is playing with gasol, bynum, and odom.
really the kobe/michael comparisons are unfair. kobe is a good player, but i'd take michael over him anytime.

 

[houheffna]

i dont believe he could.

look at the lakers team that won

bynum
gasol
ariza
kobe
and fisher.

fisher sucks. we all see it. he's hit some clutch shots, but he sucks.


farmar sucks too. for a bench player he's not terrible.
vujaic is decent offensively, but he sucks. holy crap does he suck. i dont think he scored during the finals. wow does he suck. i dont understand how he gets playing time. i suppose it's his annoying defense? the pest?
morrison he sucks. i'm glad he didnt play
benga he sucks too. i think he played for 2-3 minutes.

walton is a decent role player. i like him for that
odom. he should be starting on every team other than the lakers. he allows the worlds crappiest bench to a rather good bench/amazing bench.
powell. he was a good player. i liked him.
brown. a decent spark off the bench. he might be able to take over fishers starting spot if he learns to hit his shots with consistency.

brown/farmar-pg brown/vujaic-sg walton/odom-sf odom/walton/powell-pf gasol/bynum/odom at the c


that isn't a terrible bench. For the most part Bynum provided a solid post presence as a center off the bench. powell hit alot of outside shots. walton is a good facilitator and a decent player. brown is a good player off the bench. he added a spark when it was needed. farmar had his moments.


Gasol is amazing. he is ever so talented. i'm so glad we passed up on him. he was practically unstopable against the magic. Even with dwight howard playing, gasol managed to get his shot.

the gasol bynum duo is difficult to play against. there is so much height in the lanes, that you cant easily shoot over/around them.

odom played rather well.

ariza is 6-9. he's an agile defender who can hit the outside shot.
kobe is good. he might be the best player in the nba.

Really? kobe plays with the best talent in the nba.

michael played with pippen. PIPPEN! that's it. Really luc longley and steve kerr weren't anything too special. they were amazing talents, but they weren't anything over and above that.

If michael had half the talent surrounding kobe, the bulls would have been an 80 win team.

Maybe you are right because of Micheal Jordan's mental toughness. As far as the roster goes, the Lakers have a lot of depth. I would not say that the Lakers have a bunch of superstars/all stars. Bynum is not what he was, not even close, and Odom is as inconsistent as Chicago weather. Michael Jordan played with two PF's who were among the best at their positions defensively, and Pippen is on the all-time Top 50 list, push that list up to 75, Pippen might still be on there (I doubt it) Gasol would not.

But again, athletically, Kobe is just as good and in some facets of the game, he is even better. Although he is clutch, he is not as clutch as Jordan, who was an assassin mentally. That is the difference between the two. But Kobe is definitely a Jordan clone.



You make a solid argument then throw it all to hell by calling Luc Longley an amazing talent. what?

 

[pinkizdead]

sorry, sarcasm doesnt translate well into the internet. lonley sucks.

rodman wasn't an elite pf. he was a great rebounder/defensive stopper.