Learning From Mitch

[Bearly]

Eh, it was technically a bit of an overpay, but it was also necessary to get someone like Gettleman to finally do a trade back. It was also key that no 2nd or 3rd rounders were involved.

The Mitch trade-up sucked because it was both unnecessary and a bad evaluation. He was not so far ahead of the other options that even if someone took him before the Bears picked, that you were screwed out of a good qb prospect. Beyond that though, and hindsight being 20-20, it didn't sound like there were really any other realistic trade options for the 49ers. So, the Bears bet against themselves and lost.

Yup, why I said i was happy with it. Just not accurate description in the OP.

 

[Bearly]

Anytime you move from the bottom 3rd of the draft into the top 3rd for a QB it's gonna cost a future 1st. it's called the Mahomes tax.

20 is middle 3rd and 11 at the cusp of same. 9 spots. Glad Pace did what he needed to get it done.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

If you were Pace would you have consulted with Fox and a Hobbit on who the next QB was going to be? Pace knew they were gone next year.

I mean if I wouldn’t consult the hc that hc should not even have been in the building to begin with. There is a reason why this team is where it is today

 

[Bearly]

I mean if I wouldn’t consult the hc that hc should not even have been in the building to begin with. There is a reason why this team is where it is today

Well, Pace felt that way, LOL.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Well, Pace felt that way, LOL.

Man I like this draft and all but it hasn’t changed my opinion of pace or this org lol

 

[Anytime23]

Eh, it was technically a bit of an overpay, but it was also necessary to get someone like Gettleman to finally do a trade back. It was also key that no 2nd or 3rd rounders were involved.

The Mitch trade-up sucked because it was both unnecessary and a bad evaluation. He was not so far ahead of the other options that even if someone took him before the Bears picked, that you were screwed out of a good qb prospect. Beyond that though, and hindsight being 20-20, it didn't sound like there were really any other realistic trade options for the 49ers. So, the Bears bet against themselves and lost.

I agree. From a value perspective it was an overpay but unlike Mitch, it was necessary. If Fields is the guy, no one cares what they gave up. I still view it as them trading up to 2, without having to trade up to 2. I truly believe thats where Fields should have gone.

 

[Bearly]

Man I like this draft and all but it hasn’t changed my opinion of pace or this org lol

Stay of execution?

 

[Bearly]

I agree. From a value perspective it was an overpay but unlike Mitch, it was necessary. If Fields is the guy, no one cares what they gave up. I still view it as them trading up to 2, without having to trade up to 2. I truly believe thats where Fields should have gone.

We'd all be really pissed if we found out he wouldn't part with his 3rd and missed out due to it.

 

[Anytime23]

We'd all be really pissed if we found out he wouldn't part with his 3rd and missed out due to it.

For sure. But i also don't think we would have heard anything about it if they went in a different direction. That guy was "their guy".

 

[Bearly]

.

For sure. But i also don't think we would have heard anything about it if they went in a different direction. That guy was "their guy".

Nagy naggin.

 

[I Just Want To Read]

I feel like most of this is BS.

Mitch just seems like a dud of a player/leader. I hope Fields isn't.

A lot of this other stuff is just noise.

 

[pinkfloydster]

Let me preface everything I am about to say with saying that Mitch was bad. He simply was not a good QB, so everything looked worse.

The plan to develop, pick, and support Mitch was TERRIBLE. Looking back it was comically bad and I am sure it contributed to him busting out as hard as he did. This is important because we simply cannot afford to make the same mistakes with Justin.

1. The Veteran Bridge

Mike Glennon was a horrendous football player that for some reason Pace paid and thought could hold down the job while the rookie got ready. Instead he shit down his leg and needed to be replaced after 4 games. This rushed Mitch on to the field, clearly before he was ready to play. Who knows what this did to his development long term, but I am sure it cannot be positive.

Dalton isn't good, but he is 100x better and more accomplished than Glennon. The bar that Dalton provides for Fields to get over is an "actual NFL QB" and not the guy you start when you want the #1 pick. Being better than Dalton means you are an NFL QB. Being better than Glennon means you have a pulse.

2. The Trade Up

The trade up for Mitch was born out of panic. All the talk was that Glennon was a smoke screen for drafting a QB and Pace still traded up 1 spot for a the QB he wanted. The picks he gave up were not high picks, but they were 3 mid round picks that the Bears needed to add depth to the offense that was talent devoid. When you trade up and miss it hurts you way more. I would say the trade up and where they picked Mitch was really poor value.

The trade up for Fields feels different, 1. it was necessary to land the player. 2, it was in my view not a major over pay for the distance that needed to be cover. 3, it has been confirmed that other teams were on the phone with the Giants. 3, The value of the player was tremendous. Fields was a consensus top 10 player in the draft that was secured at 11.

3. The Player Evaluation

The entire evaluation of Mitch was a mess. Pace went rogue and did not involve the entire organization. The coaches were famously left totally in the dark, and it was clear that dissenting voices were phased out. It also appears that Pace was seduced by a Jim McMahon dinner reservation and an old beat up Camry. He seem to miss the years as a backup, the 1 year as a starter, the no big games or big wins. The pinnacle of Mitch's time at UNC was an up and down performance in the Sun Bowl.

With Fields we have a guy who started for 2 years at Ohio St, was one of the biggest recruits in the country, played in big games, against big time teams, and on big stages. The resumes when you put them beside each other could not be more different. The biggest game of Mitch's life was when he played the Lions, that will not be the case with Fields.

4. The Following Picks

Following Mitch, even after losing draft capital for the move up, Ryan Pace picked a soft developmental TE from a technical school in Ohio who looked good playing against future gym teachers. Shaheen provided nothing to Mitch or the offense and was a borderline liability when he was on the field. After Shaheen, Pace picked Tarik Cohen, a good player, but a gadget guy who does not impact the offense every play.

After picking Fields Pace did not get cute or try and be the smartest guy in the room. He picked to enormous ass kickers from major conference teams who have pelts on the wall against top competition. At a minimum Jenkins will impact every snap, baring health, of the 2021 season. There was nothing cute or overthinking about these picks. Draft a QB, draft guys who will kill to protect him.

5. The Coaching Staff

The year Mitch was drafted it was to play for a checked out defensive coach in John Fox and an OC who only gets OC jobs because he knows Adam Gase. It was also a coaching staff who didn't want him, who were more concerned about their jobs than Mitch's ideal development, and who just sucked on the offensive side of the ball.

You cannot like Nagy and he has earned some of that, but the Bears have actual coaches on the staff that have worked with QBs and improved them. Flip with Carr and Wentz. Lazor with Dalton and Tannehill. This coaching staff has more job security, more invested in Fields, and better coaches on it for this development task.

6. The Supporting Case

Mitch rolled out onto the field and his #1 WR was Kendall Wright, who was out of the league after the Bears, and his #2 was a mid season trade for Dontrelle Inman who was a journeymen. His TEs were Dion Sims and Adam Shaheen who were both terrible. The OL was solid, but he was throwing passes to the worst WR core in the NFL. How you could draft a QB into that situation is beyond me. It is negligent.

To compare Fields weapons to Mitch's is comical. Fields has 4 WRs who would have been the unquestioned #1 WR on that team. His line is on par or better, depending on Jenkins development. In the backfield he has a more dynamic player in Montgomery, and at TE, say what you want about Kmet, he is significantly better than Sims and Shaheen.


Reflecting on the Mitch plan, pretty much the entire thing was a complete disaster. Comically bad plan and execution. The Bears need to avoid these pit falls with Fields.

Agree. Pace is not making the same mistake twice.

I would add Anthony Miller to the list of mistakes that weren't repeated either. Why draft a Miller when you can get the same guy for a bargain in free agency (Marquise Goodwin and Damiere Boyd)?

 

[Nelly]

Well when you put it that way. ?

 

[The Big Grabowski]

Part of the problem with Pace's selection of Trubisky was the lame duck coaching staff. That never should have happened. Ownership brought Fox in because they thought an experienced head coach would balance having a young GM. If he wasn't going to be around to develop the QB, he should have been fired or they shouldn't have drafted a QB high that year.

Organizationally, the Bears need to be better aligned from GM to HC to QB. I'm not sure if we're there now, but this year's draft was how it's supposed to look when that happens. I've had my criticisms of Nagy but it was important to maintain that continuity.

Maybe now the Bears can work on their PR so the offseason isn't dominated by tone deaf press conferences.

 

[Mdbearz]

I disagree with the trade up part of it. It's mitigated by necessity but we way overpaid for the Fields move and paid market for the Mitch move. That said, I'm very happy with this move since they received a player that could/should have been selected much earlier.

You are right, too many people look at the player and not the draft position to determine the "value". Moving from 20 to 11, we paid too much, but getting Fields at 11 in front of the Vikes, WFT and the Patriots, was a bargain.

I think everyone of us would make that trade again....and still smile.

Let's see where we stand in 2 years....

 

[hebs]

Good post.

Some of the Nagy inflexibility will be fixed simply because Fields is a better system fit for what Nagy will want to do, especially with his experience and success in running the RPO.

BUT, if Fields struggles with a concept at the next level, even one he did well in college, Nagy has to abandon it. Seeing Mitch fail in the RPO repeatedly was awful. If Fields can't handle a concept, rip it out of the playbook immediately.

Oh, and run the fucking ball effectively.

Thankfully, with the maulers he picked up in this draft, it looks like the plan is to embrace the run and play action even more going forward. Watching Leno try to run block was a tragic comedy at best...

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

I agree. From a value perspective it was an overpay but unlike Mitch, it was necessary. If Fields is the guy, no one cares what they gave up. I still view it as them trading up to 2, without having to trade up to 2. I truly believe thats where Fields should have gone.

Why do you think it was an overpay? Who cares about the “point system” for a move like this. The Bears essentially gave up one valuable draft pick for a potential franchise QB.

 

[HeHateMe]

Let me preface everything I am about to say with saying that Mitch was bad. He simply was not a good QB, so everything looked worse.

The plan to develop, pick, and support Mitch was TERRIBLE. Looking back it was comically bad and I am sure it contributed to him busting out as hard as he did. This is important because we simply cannot afford to make the same mistakes with Justin.

1. The Veteran Bridge

Mike Glennon was a horrendous football player that for some reason Pace paid and thought could hold down the job while the rookie got ready. Instead he shit down his leg and needed to be replaced after 4 games. This rushed Mitch on to the field, clearly before he was ready to play. Who knows what this did to his development long term, but I am sure it cannot be positive.

Dalton isn't good, but he is 100x better and more accomplished than Glennon. The bar that Dalton provides for Fields to get over is an "actual NFL QB" and not the guy you start when you want the #1 pick. Being better than Dalton means you are an NFL QB. Being better than Glennon means you have a pulse.

2. The Trade Up

The trade up for Mitch was born out of panic. All the talk was that Glennon was a smoke screen for drafting a QB and Pace still traded up 1 spot for a the QB he wanted. The picks he gave up were not high picks, but they were 3 mid round picks that the Bears needed to add depth to the offense that was talent devoid. When you trade up and miss it hurts you way more. I would say the trade up and where they picked Mitch was really poor value.

The trade up for Fields feels different, 1. it was necessary to land the player. 2, it was in my view not a major over pay for the distance that needed to be cover. 3, it has been confirmed that other teams were on the phone with the Giants. 3, The value of the player was tremendous. Fields was a consensus top 10 player in the draft that was secured at 11.

3. The Player Evaluation

The entire evaluation of Mitch was a mess. Pace went rogue and did not involve the entire organization. The coaches were famously left totally in the dark, and it was clear that dissenting voices were phased out. It also appears that Pace was seduced by a Jim McMahon dinner reservation and an old beat up Camry. He seem to miss the years as a backup, the 1 year as a starter, the no big games or big wins. The pinnacle of Mitch's time at UNC was an up and down performance in the Sun Bowl.

With Fields we have a guy who started for 2 years at Ohio St, was one of the biggest recruits in the country, played in big games, against big time teams, and on big stages. The resumes when you put them beside each other could not be more different. The biggest game of Mitch's life was when he played the Lions, that will not be the case with Fields.

4. The Following Picks

Following Mitch, even after losing draft capital for the move up, Ryan Pace picked a soft developmental TE from a technical school in Ohio who looked good playing against future gym teachers. Shaheen provided nothing to Mitch or the offense and was a borderline liability when he was on the field. After Shaheen, Pace picked Tarik Cohen, a good player, but a gadget guy who does not impact the offense every play.

After picking Fields Pace did not get cute or try and be the smartest guy in the room. He picked to enormous ass kickers from major conference teams who have pelts on the wall against top competition. At a minimum Jenkins will impact every snap, baring health, of the 2021 season. There was nothing cute or overthinking about these picks. Draft a QB, draft guys who will kill to protect him.

5. The Coaching Staff

The year Mitch was drafted it was to play for a checked out defensive coach in John Fox and an OC who only gets OC jobs because he knows Adam Gase. It was also a coaching staff who didn't want him, who were more concerned about their jobs than Mitch's ideal development, and who just sucked on the offensive side of the ball.

You cannot like Nagy and he has earned some of that, but the Bears have actual coaches on the staff that have worked with QBs and improved them. Flip with Carr and Wentz. Lazor with Dalton and Tannehill. This coaching staff has more job security, more invested in Fields, and better coaches on it for this development task.

6. The Supporting Case

Mitch rolled out onto the field and his #1 WR was Kendall Wright, who was out of the league after the Bears, and his #2 was a mid season trade for Dontrelle Inman who was a journeymen. His TEs were Dion Sims and Adam Shaheen who were both terrible. The OL was solid, but he was throwing passes to the worst WR core in the NFL. How you could draft a QB into that situation is beyond me. It is negligent.

To compare Fields weapons to Mitch's is comical. Fields has 4 WRs who would have been the unquestioned #1 WR on that team. His line is on par or better, depending on Jenkins development. In the backfield he has a more dynamic player in Montgomery, and at TE, say what you want about Kmet, he is significantly better than Sims and Shaheen.


Reflecting on the Mitch plan, pretty much the entire thing was a complete disaster. Comically bad plan and execution. The Bears need to avoid these pit falls with Fields.

BEARS

 

[WindyCity]

Why do you think it was an overpay? Who cares about the “point system” for a move like this. The Bears essentially gave up one valuable draft pick for a potential franchise QB.

I prefer giving up their 1st next year to giving up the 2nd this year, which would have been the alternative and meant no Tevin Jenkins right now.

 

[Anytime23]

Why do you think it was an overpay? Who cares about the “point system” for a move like this. The Bears essentially gave up one valuable draft pick for a potential franchise QB.

You answered your own question.

Again, i've said it was worth it 1000 times. Doesn't mean they didn't overpay. There's a system for a reason.