- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 39,982
- Liked Posts:
- 26,603
This post is taken from Reddit, I found it fairly informative:
- Joined:
- May 4, 2010
- Posts:
- 27,077
- Liked Posts:
- 15,105
Kobe also should have the higher ELO, the West has been the better conference for the last 20+ years
- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,754
- Liked Posts:
- 32,777
My favorite teams
Perhaps numbers don't fully pan out (I've never heard of ELO before), but I've been of the opinion that historically the East has ALWAYS been the weaker of the two conferences. It seems to me that the East is always heavy at the top heavy, while the West has always been much more competitive. If we are going by these numbers, shouldn't we all then agree that what Kobe has done throughout his career is much more impressive than MJ?
But we won't, because as Bulls fans we have a sick obsession with never allowing anybody to be close to Saint MJ. The argument is flawed however, as it shouldn't be about how they got there, but what they did when they got there. With the possible exception of the Lakers in 91, the 4 other teams the Bulls beat were scary as hell teams that - especially in the case of Phoenix and Seattle - could have had their own mini-runs had it not been for the Bulls.
But we won't, because as Bulls fans we have a sick obsession with never allowing anybody to be close to Saint MJ. The argument is flawed however, as it shouldn't be about how they got there, but what they did when they got there. With the possible exception of the Lakers in 91, the 4 other teams the Bulls beat were scary as hell teams that - especially in the case of Phoenix and Seattle - could have had their own mini-runs had it not been for the Bulls.
- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 39,982
- Liked Posts:
- 26,603
In the 80's the West was weaker than the East.
The East had the Celtics, Bucks, Pistons, Hawks, 76ers, Bulls and I could even argue the Cavs were a decent team through the decade... the West had the Lakers... The Rockets upset the Lakers in 86 and somehow made the Finals in 1981 with a 40-42 record.
And you can get into an argument with some people who say Kobe is in fact better than Jordan.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- May 4, 2010
- Posts:
- 27,077
- Liked Posts:
- 15,105
The problem with the Kobe argument is that statistically and awards wise he doesn't stack up.
He also got through the West three times as a second fiddle tot he most dominating player on the planet.
It's not really a subjective Bulls/MJ fan issue. It's an objective stats/facts/circumstances issue as to why MJ>Kobe
- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,754
- Liked Posts:
- 32,777
My favorite teams
Fair enough, and I'm not really making the the Kobe argument, just saying if we are using numbers to disprove Lebron that it goes both ways. FWIW, to the three people who have already posted in this thread it's an objective argument....for the majority of this board, I'm leaning subjective.
nbafan23
Member
- Joined:
- Mar 20, 2015
- Posts:
- 371
- Liked Posts:
- 49
When did the west become so much better than east in your opinion?
- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,754
- Liked Posts:
- 32,777
My favorite teams
When Bird starting laying on his stomach.
nbafan23
Member
- Joined:
- Mar 20, 2015
- Posts:
- 371
- Liked Posts:
- 49
That's a long ass time
- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 39,982
- Liked Posts:
- 26,603
Better drafting and trading through the 1980's. Houston added Olajuwon, Portland Drexler, Seattle added Payton and Kemp, Utah Stockton and Malone.
The Celtics got some bad luck that destroyed their chance to remain a power house in the 90's with the death of Bias and Reggie Lewis.
Other eastern conference teams just simply drafted poorly. The Sixers didn't replace their retiring players well and then traded Barkley to the West for essentially nothing. The Knicks couldn't seem to get anything right after drafting Ewing, the Cavs lacked that Superstar player, the Bucks died off in the 90's. When the Magic came to be a powerhouse, they then let Shaq go in free agency and Penny tore his ACL and was never the same.
You could say that about the Superstars now.. besides LeBron.. Rose (ACL), George (Broken Leg), Carmelo (knee injury), Irving (various injuries), Wall (various injuries), Bosh (whatever the hell he had). Dwight Howard hasn't been the same since moving to the West, but that was another superstar lost to the west.
So mostly its just been bad luck and poor management by the Eastern Conference teams that get us into this position we see now.
- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,754
- Liked Posts:
- 32,777
My favorite teams
Which is why I don't even understand the need to justify anything in the first place. Why is it MJ or Lebron's fault that the other teams in the East haven't been able to keep pace?
- Joined:
- Apr 11, 2009
- Posts:
- 23,397
- Liked Posts:
- 7,334
My favorite teams
Because let's blame players for other team's inabilities to match their talent
- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 39,982
- Liked Posts:
- 26,603
It shows LeBron has a cake walk to the NBA Finals every year.. and yet is 2-3 in the Finals. While Jordan was 6-0 with a slightly stronger Eastern Conference and just as good western conference.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,754
- Liked Posts:
- 32,777
My favorite teams
Awesome. Jordan will never be replaced. Next.
- Joined:
- Jun 25, 2010
- Posts:
- 39,982
- Liked Posts:
- 26,603
In your mind, thats true. In my mind, that's true as well. Other people may have different opinions. I just found it an interesting topic that maybe some general NBA fans may want to discuss.
- Joined:
- Jun 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 44,754
- Liked Posts:
- 32,777
My favorite teams
I love you.
Toast88
Well-known member
- Joined:
- May 10, 2014
- Posts:
- 12,863
- Liked Posts:
- 11,915
I no longer have any interest in tearing down or downplaying Lebron's achievements. He's a hell of a player and should be proud of his great and prosperous career, which is far from over.
He's not better than Jordan, and he's far enough in his career for me to confidently say he'll never be better than Jordan.
He's still one of the all time greats who is fun to watch, even if he is a whiny little bitch.
He's not better than Jordan, and he's far enough in his career for me to confidently say he'll never be better than Jordan.
He's still one of the all time greats who is fun to watch, even if he is a whiny little bitch.
cjswan232482
New member
- Joined:
- Jul 14, 2013
- Posts:
- 1,169
- Liked Posts:
- 302
Frankly, the only differences between Kobe and MJ is:
1) MJ never had to share with someone as dominant as Shaq. If Shaq would not have dominated with the Bulls, that would have only been an indictment on MJ. Shaq was undeniable.
2). Kobe played in the tougher Western Conference.
3) MJ was MUCH more protected by the media.
The fact that Kobe score 81 points tell everything I need to know. Kobe is as close as MJ as you can get. And I'm a Bulls fan.