Let's Talk VDN

[ramblingrose33]

The big discussion during last season (except Ben Gordon) was, should the Bulls fire VDN? All the talk subsided as we went into the Playoffs and then watched Gordon leave. But my question to everyone is, should the Bulls let him go after this season?

I honestly would love to see him go. I think and correct me if I'm wrong, but Skiles' deal is off our books in two years? If that's the case, I'd love to have Van Gundy or Avery Johnson. Not sure if we can get them but I think this team needs a coach with balls and just a little strategy. Our offense is so boring which is sad considering we have young guys with 3 - 4 years of experience. I'm not asking for the triangle or anything but something beyond a single-man rotation would be welcomed.

Finally, I can't say I trust VDN with grooming Rose. Playing-wise, VDN was a completely different player than Rose and didn't even play on teams with Rose-type players. Rose needs somebody he looks up to. I can't say VDN is that guy. When I was a kid opening pack cards, the Vinny Del Negro card often found itself in my bike spokes...

 

[Fred]

Good topic. There was a play early in the Celtics game that gives me some serious concerns about Vinny. It was a playd designed out of timeout, and I believe the score was 11-11. It was basically, give the ball the Salmons at the top of the key, and have the other guys spread out at the 3 point line. None of the other guys on the floor at the time (Deng, Thomas, Noah, and Rose) of course could hit a 3. It was one of the worst designed plays I've ever seen. Only Noah attempted to crash the boards. I'll try and post this play later today, but I have no idea what he was trying to do.

 

[ramblingrose33]

It seems that this team lacks leadership. Ideally, if you have a young guy like Rose, having a dynamic (heck, I'd take good!) coach would maximize his abilities. I don't get the sense that VDN sets any tempo besides panic. Actually, he's a lot like Tim Floyd and may turn into him completely if our front court becomes more dominant than our back court as it was with Floyd.
I get why Skiles was fired, miss him still but at least we had an identity and stood for something.

 

[??? ??????]

It's hard to argue for firing Vinny right now. The big men and Luol Deng are making good defensive rotations now, which has resulted in the Bulls having good defensive efforts in 2 out o the 3 games so far. It's not really Vinny's fault that management chose to get rid of an elite offensive talent.

That was the Bulls problem in Miami, they had no one to score in bunches to get them an 8 point lead, so all the good defense was for naught. Then during clutch time, the execution was terrible, with Hinrich dribbling out of a three point shot, and Deng driving to the hoop when we were down 6 with something like 38 seconds left (in a situation where a 3 would have put us down 3, and we wouldn't have had to foul, and would have had a chance to tie if we got the stop). Then Salmons like dribbled it off his foot or something in the clutch too.

Again, that's not really Vinny's fault that management chose to get rid of an elite clutch player.

Although I would much rather have Avery Johnson to Vinny Del Negro, but Del Negro is doing a pretty solid job of coaching right now.

 

[ramblingrose33]

Come on man! Not everything is about Gordon. There's a thread open if you want to pine about management and Gordon. I'm talking Del Negro. He wasn't "solid" last year with Gordon. He's not "solid" this year either. You honestly think his offensive sets are good? He has to run a team with what he has and it's not happening. That's how he should be judged. Not on Ben Gordon's absence from this team!

I recognize the paltry three-point shooting is a prime reason we're not 2-1 (and yes Gordon probably would have helped us win yesterday) but don't make Ben Gordon the only reason why this team is lacking.

 

[fola]

Don't get me started...

I get what you're saying p03, really, i do. But its so much bigger than that. For one, I dont believe that long term he's someone that our players will excel with..or maybe even tolerate. Case in point; Lindsey Hunter (you know, the guy the Org signed to be a go between the players/coaches) spends much of his time letting all the players know how bad of a coach he is. Thats a problem. And it seems that at least half of our roster has a similar opinion about him.

But more importantly, I just don't believe that he's the right person to help us figure out what we have in our team (Rose). I'm not sure that Avery is, but he's definitely closer. The more I watch Rose the more I come to believe that he needs someone that will.. 'force' (for lack of a better word) him to be a great player. Or at least expedite the process of us finding out the he'll just be a really good one.

 

[jsain360]

D'antoni was the answer all along, the Bulls are built to be an uptempo team, Vinny has to realize that and speed up the game, D'Antoni's offensive genuis would have maximized Rose's ability even more, we know D'Antoni's strong suit isn't defense, thats why its up to management to go out and find an assistant coach to cordinate the defense.

 

[ramblingrose33]

I have to think D'antoni has his regrets...

 

[RC_Skinny22]

I think Vinnie is ok right now. The only thing I don´t like is that Johnson gets almost no playing time and Tyrus is benched too much, too.

 

[clonetrooper264]

VDN is rather meh IMO. I'm not sure why James Johnson is getting no PT at all, I mean, he could probably contribute with the second unit with some success. Plus it saves Miller's legs. VDN still has a ways to go, but he's improved. Would D'Antoni be better? Absolutely. But we don't have him, we have Vinny, so let's make due with with we got.

 

[Diddy1122]

jsain360 wrote:

D'antoni was the answer all along, the Bulls are built to be an uptempo team, Vinny has to realize that and speed up the game, D'Antoni's offensive genuis would have maximized Rose's ability even more, we know D'Antoni's strong suit isn't defense, thats why its up to management to go out and find an assistant coach to cordinate the defense.

Agree 100%. When we were "pursuing" D'Antoni, if you could call it that, in the offseason, I was slobbering over the possiblity of our young guys running & gunning up the court. And this was before Rose. But once again, Reinsdork proved how much of a cheapskate he is, by not offering a contract! And yes, I know, we are still paying Skiles, but so friggin' what! The Bulls make more money than any other team in the league & that is a FACT. JR can afford to relenquish the kung-fu grip on his wallet once in awhile, but refuses to do so because he doesn't want to lose any money. He needs all the Bulls money so he can funnel it into his shitty baseball team.

As for VDN, he's not a bad coach, but he's not good either. I gave him a pass for most of last season because he had to deal with mutiple injuries, had no control over what assistants he could have, & had Gooden & Hughes on his squad. It's hard to look good as head coach when those 2 are in your starting 5. After the trade deadline, he was making improvements, such as not wasting timeouts every 2mins & stopped treating the players with kid gloves. But we have to look at why they hired him. He's a good communicator. That was it. That was the reason. Not his experience, obviously, or his amazing basketball knowledge. Since alot of the players tuned out Skiles, management wanted not only a coach that they could control, but a coach that would suck up to the players, which Vinny did for the majority of last season. This preseason & so far this season, it seems like Vinny has grown a pair. But this guy is by no means the long term answer at head coach. If we stumble, he'll be fired, I'm 100% certain of that. Either way I don't see him lasting past his current contract.