MJs speach

[Diddy1122]

houheffna wrote:

Riker...two points

1. Those were a sports journalists statements. That is Newskool's fault for not putting them in proper quotation and then citing the author as he should have.

2. You are the one who seems frustrated. Everything you say is vitriolic. That is very unnecessary.

You know Riker may be vitriolic in his delivery, but his statements are on the money for the most part.

It's just Riker being Riker I guess. :silly:

 

[TheStig]

??? ?????? wrote:

TheStig wrote:

houheffna wrote:

Don't think so.

First the trade was to happen in 2007 at the trade deadline so Noah more than likely would not be in the picture, neither would Rose, who will be a better player than Gasol. I would rather have Rose and take a chance on someone in the future, like 2010 than be stuck with Gasol and Gordon anyday. That team does not beat Lebron, Orlando or Garnett's Celtics.

Gasol was traded in 2008 not 2007. Noah was on the roster and would not have been included. The lakers gave up scraps and bums for him. No one was asking for anything close to a lottery pick. It would have been a deal that would be PJ Brown, Joe Smith and Thabo. Maybe a protected first. That team doesn't beat any of those teams a 100% but it is easily top 4 in the east and has a strong 7 games against each of them. I wouldn't rule them out, I'd give them 50/50 shot. Espically if we still got Miller/Salmons deal sone.

It was a sign and traded PJ Brown, Tyrus Thomas, and some draft picks.

Why would we give up so much, the lakers gave up absolute crap and no 1sts. If TT was included we wouldn't have given a pick, plus I thought Thabo was in it for some reason. Anyway, it doesn't make much of a difference, we still would have gotten a lot better.

 

[Kush77]

houheffna wrote:

So Krause was a decent GM? I can go with that. Again, I am not a Krause fan, but he didn't deserve that disrespect at that moment in my opinion. Calling him Crumbs is just mean spirited and the person who started calling him that didn't like being called a ****** by Ozzie Guillen.

Phil has 10 championships, he has proven that he can win and he is a great coach who shouldn't be slighted. This last year he won with just one great player. Phil deserves respect and his career stands on its own. Phil has won without Jordan, though it was with a "Jordanesque" type player in Kobe and a dominant talent for the ages like Shaq. Phil is a HOFer in his own right. And like Jordan, he has an immense ego.

Horace Grant's problems were with Reinsdorf moreso than Krause. To say he didn't do anything special is not true. Krause discovered the greatest coach in NBA history in the CBA wearing Birkenstocks and drafting Scottie Pippen was not just any move. GMs in this league would give a testicle to find a Pippen. Players like Pippen are extremely hard to find. Kukoc affirmed Krause's interest and aggressiveness in him by the way he played. To take away from what Krause did is simply not right. Krause made a fool of himself in the post-Jordan era but he should get his respect for what he did while Jordan was here.

No, Krause is a decent GM, that's why I said "any decent GM can put the talent around the greatest player ever." Krause was decent, but in his own mind - he's legendary.

As for Phil, great coach. But he doesn't even get the opportunity to coach LA if he doesn't win his titles with Jordan. That was my point about it all going back to Jordan.

Did I not post all those good Krause moves in the first paragraph of my reply???

As for the "Crumbs" nickname, I think that came from Jordan. I don't think Mariotti started that. That started within the organization if I remember correctly.

 

[Kush77]

TheStig wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

I loved it all except for his talk on Krause. He could have sqaushed it and made it good but no he had to take shots at him. Krause never said organizations win championships he said they were a big part of it. I cant believe how hated Krause is when Phil Jackson was a bigger dick than him. Krause is a legend for what he did and I hope he one day gets inducted. I also didnt like the freeze out talk in the all-star game, George Gervin looked upset.

Gotta disagree with ya NSB, I loved the way he called out Krause. Little bum.

Krause did say that organizations win championships. He said it at the start of training camp in 1997, right before the "Last Dance."

Krause is a jackass that let his ego get the best of him. He was so confident that he could build a title team without Jordan. How did that work out? Badly.

As for the freeze out, they did it to the best player ever and they got called out. It was all part of his motivation talk. It was great.

I didn't hear the speech but Krause is right. Organizations do win championships, espically in this league. Just not his. Look at the Lakers and Celtics, they have won more rings than all the other teams combined. How many noncompetitive lakers teams do you remember in the last 30 years? A couple here, a couple there? Sorry but Organizations do win rings.

Now Krause in his case was wrong because his team didn't do anything past the dynasty but in general they do.

Then my question to you is - how many titles have the Bulls won outside of Jordan? Zero. Players win championships. Krause is wrong. Organizations sign the checks and bring in the players. But the players have to win.

How many times do we hear coaches, managers defended because the players don't perform. I know I've heard that defense for Lou Piniella this year for the Cubs. "It's not Lou's fault Milton Bradley can't hit", "not Lou's fault Kevin Gregg gives up home runs every 2 seconds", etc.

The players have to win it on the field, court. Krause's comment was his massive ego taking control and trying to give himself more credit that he deserves.

There's about what, 20-something banners hanging at the United Center? And only 1, the division champs for 73 or 77, something like that, was outside of Jordan. Every other banner up there is because of a Jordan-led team. So my response to Crumbs would be, this organization hasn't done much winning without #23.

 

[Kush77]

As for people ripping Jordan for his speech not being classy - Jordan gave his reason for the speech, I believe.

At the start of the speech he mentioned how he learned things about David Robinson, John Stockton and Jerry Sloan that he never knew.

Then he said "what don't you know about me?" which is true. Most basketball fans know Jordan's entire story. So instead of telling us about how he told Steve Kerr "be ready when the Jazz double me," we got a candid Jordan that you probably hear when he's talking to Charles Barkley or Charles Oakley. I loved it.

 

[TheStig]

Kush77 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

I loved it all except for his talk on Krause. He could have sqaushed it and made it good but no he had to take shots at him. Krause never said organizations win championships he said they were a big part of it. I cant believe how hated Krause is when Phil Jackson was a bigger dick than him. Krause is a legend for what he did and I hope he one day gets inducted. I also didnt like the freeze out talk in the all-star game, George Gervin looked upset.

Gotta disagree with ya NSB, I loved the way he called out Krause. Little bum.

Krause did say that organizations win championships. He said it at the start of training camp in 1997, right before the "Last Dance."

Krause is a jackass that let his ego get the best of him. He was so confident that he could build a title team without Jordan. How did that work out? Badly.

As for the freeze out, they did it to the best player ever and they got called out. It was all part of his motivation talk. It was great.

I didn't hear the speech but Krause is right. Organizations do win championships, espically in this league. Just not his. Look at the Lakers and Celtics, they have won more rings than all the other teams combined. How many noncompetitive lakers teams do you remember in the last 30 years? A couple here, a couple there? Sorry but Organizations do win rings.

Now Krause in his case was wrong because his team didn't do anything past the dynasty but in general they do.

Then my question to you is - how many titles have the Bulls won outside of Jordan? Zero. Players win championships. Krause is wrong. Organizations sign the checks and bring in the players. But the players have to win.

How many times do we hear coaches, managers defended because the players don't perform. I know I've heard that defense for Lou Piniella this year for the Cubs. "It's not Lou's fault Milton Bradley can't hit", "not Lou's fault Kevin Gregg gives up home runs every 2 seconds", etc.

The players have to win it on the field, court. Krause's comment was his massive ego taking control and trying to give himself more credit that he deserves.

There's about what, 20-something banners hanging at the United Center? And only 1, the division champs for 73 or 77, something like that, was outside of Jordan. Every other banner up there is because of a Jordan-led team. So my response to Crumbs would be, this organization hasn't done much winning without #23.

I didn't saw it was the bulls org that wins title. I said that organizations do, I hardly think that is a point for arguement since half the teams in the league haven't won a title and two teams (lakers and celtics) have won more than all the other teams combined. Organizations do win titles, just not ours. If they don't, why is there such a large disparity between the lakers and celtics and any other team in the league?

 

[houheffna]

Then my question to you is - how many titles have the Bulls won outside of Jordan? Zero. Players win championships. Krause is wrong. Organizations sign the checks and bring in the players. But the players have to win.

How many times do we hear coaches, managers defended because the players don't perform. I know I've heard that defense for Lou Piniella this year for the Cubs. "It's not Lou's fault Milton Bradley can't hit", "not Lou's fault Kevin Gregg gives up home runs every 2 seconds", etc.

The players have to win it on the field, court. Krause's comment was his massive ego taking control and trying to give himself more credit that he deserves.

There's about what, 20-something banners hanging at the United Center? And only 1, the division champs for 73 or 77, something like that, was outside of Jordan. Every other banner up there is because of a Jordan-led team. So my response to Crumbs would be, this organization hasn't done much winning without #23.

So you are saying that you believe Krause actually meant that he won those championships because he put the players on the floor? I don't believe Jordan believes that...not at all. I believe that Jordan knows that Krause's words were misconstrued and told to them a different way, as Steve Rosenbloom, who was there, points out. An AP writer came to Jordan and did not accurately quote Krause. Jordan found out the truth but wanted to shove it in Krause's face anyway.

Krause is right...of course. Organizations DO win championships. From the Chairman of the Board to the trainers and so on. The coaches deserve some credit. Whether Phil got his shot because of Jordan or not, he maximized his opportunities and has become one of the best coaches in NBA history. Coaches like Phil Jackson can help you win championships. He is that good. He is that great. And only one person in the whole damn league saw that potential and that was Krause. He deserves some respect for his contributions to the winning culture of the 1990's. Plain and simple.