My Mitch Trubisky Plan

[Warrior Spirit]

Is this a fact or just cliche? I can not think of 1 QB that was drafted to be a starter and sat for a year in the last 10 years. The last QB i can think that sat a year was Aaron Rodgers 12 years. Kirk Cousin sat for most of the year but he wasn't a high pick or thought to of been a starter.

Where does this whole narrative about starting QBs early ruins them come from? I think the sooner the better. I don't see why you don't want them to start as soon as possible, as long as the OLINE is protecting them, and they can run the offense.

The narrative is one of the more stupid ones. Even with the QBs you mention, Cousins really sat cause he was picked to be RG3's backup, Rodgers really sat cause the Packers couldn't pass him up like other teams did and Favre was retiring and unretiring for several years. There are others, Brady sat cause he was a 6th round pick trying to work his way up the depth chart and Pats seemed set with Bledsoe. But look at the rest and the overwhelming majority started from day 1 with many having instant success like Prescott did last year.

 

[xer0h0ur]

*cough*... Greg Olsen...*cough*

And Marshall seems like an odd example for you to pick since he had his best season immediately after we traded him with Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing to him.

Similarly, Martellus Bennett had arguably his best statistical season with the Patriots last year with 700 receiving yards and 7 touchdowns.

Also, I thought Hester actually looked better back in 2008 with Orton throwing to him, and then he steadily regressed with Cutler throwing to him.

And Earl Bennett and Aromashabadadooboo were never good.

So, uh, I disagree....

What? Arguably? In what world does a stat line of 55 receptions, 701 yards, 7 touchdowns trump 90 receptions, 916 yards and 6 touchdowns? Bennett had his best year in Chicago. Yes, Marshall had his best single statistical season on the Jets but there is no arguing that the vast majority of Marshall's career success was with Cutler throwing him the ball.

A shitty offensive line is no excuse for stupid interceptions​. Wide receivers running the wrong route, fine maybe two INTs per year could be attributed to that. But Andrew Luck has been hit more times in his career than Cutler has when things were at the worst and has played way better than Cutler ever did at any point in his career.

Every backup that played under the same circumstances as Cutler, ALWAYS outplayed him. They achieved​ over a period of a few games that Cutler NEVER achieved​ in his entire career.

Namely back to back games of at least 300 yards at least two TDs and ZERO interceptions​. Two strong games in back to back weeks was too much consistency to ask of Jay Cutler.

Three seasons Cutler didn't have Marshall or Jeffrey out of eight. 2009, 2010, 2011. Five seasons with plenty of competent options and no where near any type of career high in yards touchdowns etc. He merely didn't fuck up much in 2015.

How dense can you possibly be? I explicitly said Cutler has plenty of legitimate issues to criticize him over. Its ironic you even bring up Andrew Luck, one of the few quarterbacks other than Eli Manning and Jay Cutler that turn over the ball at such a bad rate. Luck also happens to be another middle of the road quarterback that IS NOT elite. Hmmm, I wonder what other similarities Luck and Cutler share. What could it possibly be? Perhaps the talent around him? Naw, can't possibly be.

You damn well know you're pulling the backup thing out of your ass. This was only true once the offensive line was remotely competent AND please do tell, how many games did those backups start and how many did they win? Or did you forgot those guys couldn't fucking score? You know, that one thing that wins football games? Points...

As for the last parts, again...no one is saying Cutler didn't underachieve. Every fucking one knows he did. You're not suddenly telling us anything we didn't already know to be true.

 

[BearsFan51]

This is not a defense of Jay Cutler he wasn't good enough and the people who act like he was somehow better than the 17th best QB in the league boggle my mind.

But the Bears did a shit job of assisting him.


I just don't want them to do the same with Trubisky. Don't put him out there with Webb, Chris Williams, Omiyale and Scott.

Don't make him throw to Hester, Knox and Manamanluana.

Don't fire the OC every year to save your HC or to appease the QB.

He had to throw to Knox Hester and​ Earl Bennett for two seasons without Greg Olsen out of eight total seasons.

Angelo drafted Williams and Carimi and they washed out due to injuries, that's not a lack of support that's injury problems.

Angelo tried to sign Jermon Bushrod and one other free agent OT but both decided to stay with their current teams for less money. These are the facts on a season by season basis of what the Bears tried to do for Cutler.

This idea that Cutler failed because the Bears failed him is wildly inaccurate and not true. The Bears did everything for him from going after the best available OC on the market on Mike Martz to hiring the guy that Cutler succeeded under in Denver to hiring a guy that was allegedly a QB whisperer who was brought in to get the absolute best out of Cutler. None of these support aspects worked out. Stop trying to rewrite history in defense of Jay Cutler.

 

[PeterMbangala]

While I fundamentally disagree with allowing the kid to win the job this year, always a great read Windy.

I think prior to the draft, I would have agreed with you, but a scout changed my mind.

What I read from the scout was that he always would prefer to let a QB sit a year. The reason is because no matter how polished, every QB comes into the league with bad habits, and if you give them a year to sit, so long as you are steadily working with them to get reps and practice, you can essentially forge new muscle memory that will hold when they are finally ready to start - it becomes ingrained in them.

However, if they start too soon, all that hard work comes undone as soon as the QB faces pressure and hardship, and their old muscle memory surfaces, which is in this scout's opinion, why some guys bust out or go to hell as soon as they hit some real adversity. In his opinion, a year is enough to make it all second nature, even in adversity, and at that point it all becomes about whether you got the right guy mentally (can he read a defense, etc). But he strongly felt letting a QB sit for a year gives the QB the best chance to succeed, so long as the team who has him continues to invest that development time into him the year round.

I have to say, it was a very compelling case and made total sense. As such, I am on the "keep Mitch benched no matter what" bandwagon for this year, and my plan would then be to try to trade Glennon in the offseason, and barring that, make it an "open" competition for 2018 with the expectation the kid takes it from Glennon.

I largely agree with you but I thinking giving him some PT in the second half of the season is kind if the ideal scenario. It doesn't necessarily have to be after the bye week, although looking at the schedule, the calls for him to start will likely be deafening.

I'd like to see him start the last four games or so or get significant snaps at a minimum in those games. Ideally I don't want him going into 2018 with no idea of what's involved in being the starter and no playing time at all. Obviously it would still be preferable than being thrown in before he's ready but that's my perfect scenario.

 

[PeterMbangala]

He had to throw to Knox Hester and​ Earl Bennett for two seasons without Greg Olsen out of eight total seasons.

Angelo drafted Williams and Carimi and they washed out due to injuries, that's not a lack of support that's injury problems.

Angelo tried to sign Jermon Bushrod and one other free agent OT but both decided to stay with their current teams for less money. These are the facts on a season by season basis of what the Bears tried to do for Cutler.

This idea that Cutler failed because the Bears failed him is wildly inaccurate and not true. The Bears did everything for him from going after the best available OC on the market on Mike Martz to hiring the guy that Cutler succeeded under in Denver to hiring a guy that was allegedly a QB whisperer who was brought in to get the absolute best out of Cutler. None of these support aspects worked out. Stop trying to rewrite history in defense of Jay Cutler.

I'm amazed anyone still gives a shit about any of this. Other than learning the lessons for Trubisky, who cares? Why?

 

[Bearshomer]

The Cutler fans on this board trying to somehow compare him to Luck because they are "turnover prone" are Special person. Luck is ranked 22nd all time for lowest INT percentage while Cutler is 65th. Luck had a high turnover rate his rookie season, and in his seven games he played in 2015 with an injured throwing shoulder, torn abdominal muscle, and lacerated kidney. His other three seasons where he actually played the full year and wasn't a rookie he had a turnover percentage below the league average.

 

[CNiel36]

That is the thing, there is no proof that sitting or starting a QB hurts or helps them. Most QB who are successful recently (last 10 years) start right away. Logically you would want to have him start ASAP so you know if he is the guy or not. If he starts the season and he is making bad calls, forcing passes, looks nervous, and at the end of the season he doesn't make any progression and is making the same mistakes. Then it is time to look for another QB. If at the end of the season he looks calm is making better reads and looks like he is keeping us in games then you continue to build around him.

Again, I don't think it is far to put QBs in a bucket like that. Each player is different. Mark Sanchez is a QB that is a great example of the faults of playing SOME QBs too early. He had one year at USC, and looked to have all the tools. By lacked something between the ears. Was thrown out there with a great supporting cast. Played well for a few years, then plateaued and crashed and burned. We don't know what he could have been had he sat for a year. We forget these are kids, not only kids but kids with huge egos. Being thrown into the fire and torn to shreds by a NFL defense will effect different people in different ways. We need to give the kid the opportunity to win the job, but it needs to be done behind closed doors not in the media or public. If he beats out Gleenon, look he is the starter (ala Wentz)! If he doesn't, he doesn't look like a failure to the fan base or public. And you take him to year 2 and keep working with him.

 

[Bearshomer]

Again, I don't think it is far to put QBs in a bucket like that. Each player is different. Mark Sanchez is a QB that is a great example of the faults of playing SOME QBs too early. He had one year at USC, and looked to have all the tools. By lacked something between the ears. Was thrown out there with a great supporting cast. Played well for a few years, then plateaued and crashed and burned.

Good one

 

[xer0h0ur]

The Cutler fans on this board trying to somehow compare him to Luck because they are "turnover prone" are Special person. Luck is ranked 22nd all time for lowest INT percentage while Cutler is 65th. Luck had a high turnover rate his rookie season, and in his seven games he played in 2015 with an injured throwing shoulder, torn abdominal muscle, and lacerated kidney. His other three seasons where he actually played the full year and wasn't a rookie he had a turnover percentage below the league average.

Are you even serious right now? Comparing a 5 year quarterback's career interception percentage to an 11 year quarterback's? Luck has thrown 68 interceptions in 5 years to Cutler's 146 in 11 years. Do the math... Furthermore apparently you're forgetting about fumbles. Luck has fumbled 38 times in 5 years. Cutler has fumbled 89 times in 11 years. So in 5 years Luck turned over the ball 106 times and Cutler in 11 years turned over the ball 235 times. Do the math...

My statement is 100% accurate. Jay Cutler, Eli Manning and Andrew Luck are the worst. For comparison's sake Eli Manning has thrown 215 interceptions and fumbled 104 times in 13 years. Again, do the math.

Now kindly pull Andrew Luck's dick out of your mouth. Oh Luck had a boo boo for a year? How cute. Cutler played his entire career with type 1 diabetes, took on multiple concussions and injuries throughout his career.

 

[BearsFan51]

What? Arguably? In what world does a stat line of 55 receptions, 701 yards, 7 touchdowns trump 90 receptions, 916 yards and 6 touchdowns? Bennett had his best year in Chicago. Yes, Marshall had his best single statistical season on the Jets but there is no arguing that the vast majority of Marshall's career success was with Cutler throwing him the ball.



How dense can you possibly be? I explicitly said Cutler has plenty of legitimate issues to criticize him over. Its ironic you even bring up Andrew Luck, one of the few quarterbacks other than Eli Manning and Jay Cutler that turn over the ball at such a bad rate. Luck also happens to be another middle of the road quarterback that IS NOT elite. Hmmm, I wonder what other similarities Luck and Cutler share. What could it possibly be? Perhaps the talent around him? Naw, can't possibly be.

You damn well know you're pulling the backup thing out of your ass. This was only true once the offensive line was remotely competent AND please do tell, how many games did those backups start and how many did they win? Or did you forgot those guys couldn't fucking score? You know, that one thing that wins football games? Points...

As for the last parts, again...no one is saying Cutler didn't underachieve. Every fucking one knows he did. You're not suddenly telling us anything we didn't already know to be true.

Yeah Andrew Luck they guy who has thrown 40 and 31 TDs in two of his first five seasons​, something Cutler never did once. You know Andrew Luck the guy who has won 11 games in three of his first five seasons again Cutler never won 11 games once in a season. You know since wins and points scored suddenly matter to you when talking about QBs...

 

[xer0h0ur]

Yeah Andrew Luck they guy who has thrown 40 and 31 TDs in two of his first five seasons​, something Cutler never did once. You know Andrew Luck the guy who has won 11 games in three of his first five seasons again Cutler never won 11 games once in a season. You know since wins and points scored suddenly matter to you when talking about QBs...

You really love to fall on a sword all of your own making don't you? The discussion is about the worst quarterbacks at turning the ball over. Luck is firmly in that discussion by his own hand. Literally.

 

[Bearshomer]

Are you even serious right now? Comparing a 5 year quarterback's career interception percentage to an 11 year quarterback's? Luck has thrown 68 interceptions in 5 years to Cutler's 146 in 11 years. Do the math... Furthermore apparently you're forgetting about fumbles. Luck has fumbled 38 times in 5 years. Cutler has fumbled 89 times in 11 years. So in 5 years Luck turned over the ball 106 times and Cutler in 11 years turned over the ball 235 times. Do the math...

My statement is 100% accurate. Jay Cutler, Eli Manning and Andrew Luck are the worst. For comparison's sake Eli Manning has thrown 215 interceptions and fumbled 104 times in 13 years. Again, do the math.

Now kindly pull Andrew Luck's dick out of your mouth. Oh Luck had a boo boo for a year? How cute. Cutler played his entire career with type 1 diabetes, took on multiple concussions and injuries throughout his career.

Introducing: Attempts.

Cutler has 5160 drop backs and runs in his career. Luck has 3093. Cutler has 188 turnovers. Luck has 87. This gives Cutler one turnover every 27.4 times he gets the football and Luck a turnover one in every 35.5 times he gets the football. Peyton Manning is at 1 in 37.1 and Brees one in 36.7. Luck is above average at ball security, he just happens to play on an awful team that needs him to drop back to pass over 600 times per year.

That gives Cutler an average of five more turnovers per 600 times (normal number for modern QB in a single season) he drops back. That is awful.

 

[AussieBear]

to sum up Windy right Aussie wrong ... again ... no problem mane aussie is real dum so spectatunz shud be low.

yeah me always wronger than canaduhs..

wells when da vick runs a 4.33 and has dat 38" vert... he aint superior.. hes a freak rights... freaks be superiorz...

trubisky gots some agility but he aints superior... and jyall thinks im dum... mirrors yo.. mirrors.. looks in dem

 

[xer0h0ur]

Introducing: Attempts.

Cutler has 5160 drop backs and runs in his career. Luck has 3093. Cutler has 188 turnovers. Luck has 87. This gives Cutler one turnover every 27.4 times he gets the football and Luck a turnover one in every 35.5 times he gets the football. Peyton Manning is at 1 in 37.1 and Brees one in 36.7. Luck is above average at ball security, he just happens to play on an awful team that needs him to drop back to pass over 600 times per year.

That gives Cutler an average of five more turnovers per 600 times (normal number for modern QB in a single season) he drops back. That is awful.

Introducing: straw man. The discussion has been this entire time about the worst quarterbacks in terms of turning the ball over to the other team. I don't know where you got your numbers from but I got mine from pro-football-reference.com. Fumbles are in fact turnovers. Add fumbles and interceptions together otherwise all you're doing is skewing statistics, percentages, ratios or whatever other method you use.

 

[Bearshomer]

Introducing: straw man. The discussion has been this entire time about the worst quarterbacks in terms of turning the ball over to the other team. I don't know where you got your numbers from but I got mine from pro-football-reference.com. Fumbles are in fact turnovers. Add fumbles and interceptions together otherwise all you're doing is skewing statistics, percentages, ratios or whatever other method you use.

Because you're literally too stupid to understand the effect attempts will have on turnovers.

 

[Midway Fields]

The narrative is one of the more stupid ones. Even with the QBs you mention, Cousins really sat cause he was picked to be RG3's backup, Rodgers really sat cause the Packers couldn't pass him up like other teams did and Favre was retiring and unretiring for several years. There are others, Brady sat cause he was a 6th round pick trying to work his way up the depth chart and Pats seemed set with Bledsoe. But look at the rest and the overwhelming majority started from day 1 with many having instant success like Prescott did last year.

Name a rookie QB who had Day 1 success with a comparable supporting cast? Quit try to sabotage our guy. We are winning 4-5 games, why force the issue because he may be better than the giraffe.

 

[xer0h0ur]

Because you're literally too stupid to understand the effect attempts will have on turnovers.

Yup, that is definitely it. Must also be why your numbers are different too.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Name a rookie QB who had Day 1 success with a comparable supporting cast? Quit try to sabotage our guy. We are winning 4-5 games, why force the issue because he may be better than the giraffe.

Wilson and what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

 

[Bearshomer]

Yup, that is definitely it. Must also be why your numbers are different too.

They aren't.

 

[BearsFan51]

I'm amazed anyone still gives a shit about any of this. Other than learning the lessons for Trubisky, who cares? Why?

Because I plan on holding​ Trubisky to the same standard as Cutler. Kid has to go out there and be better than Cutler regardless of the bullshit supporting cast argument. He has to be more accurate, more consistent, win more games and be more productive. In three years I'd like to be having a discussion about Trubisky being the MVP of the league like Derek Carr was this past year. Trubisky needs to be among the best in the league with Mariota Carr Luck those three represent the future at the moment and Trubisky needs to be in that group.

Dak we'll see. Wilson more consistent with his arm and not his legs. Winston that next step forward and Went the next step in year two.

These guys are the next decade or so of QBs.