My thoughts/rant

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Nagy has shown zero progress on the offense. I would argue that Lazor has done more for the team this last year when they got Trubisky some mobility plays.

Nagy was too stubborn and when his play calling seeped back in they went back to their own ways.

The offense was best with play action passing and rollouts. That was Lazor.

Nagy's offense rans its course in 2019. Everyone blamed it on Trubisky.....just give Nagy an average QB they said.....

I don't believe in Nagy as a play caller at all.
 

MikeDitkaPolishSausage

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Nagy has shown zero progress on the offense. I would argue that Lazor has done more for the team this last year when they got Trubisky some mobility plays.

Nagy was too stubborn and when his play calling seeped back in they went back to their own ways.

The offense was best with play action passing and rollouts. That was Lazor.

Nagy's offense rans its course in 2019. Everyone blamed it on Trubisky.....just give Nagy an average QB they said.....

I don't believe in Nagy as a play caller at all.
Seems like Nagy has actually done the opposite and has regressed since his first year of coaching. And I agree the Bears offense was best when Lazor was calling the plays.
 

Biscuit

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Yeah I’m new here too, lifelong Bears fan, but have sorta lost touch with what’s going on in recent years.

From a distance, Pace + Nagy seem to be below average in their jobs, especially Pace. Drafting Trubisky over Mahomes/Watson was a big whiff, like drafting Sam Bowie over MJ. Mistakes happen, but now that there‘s even discussion about acquiring Wentz, it proves to me that Pace is just overmatched. I wouldn’t have Wentz, even for half of his bloated contract. Let Indy have him.

I’m hoping against hope that he gets lucky and picks a decent QB in the draft.
 

Pegger

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@BluesBroJake Welcome!

I'm the resident Eagle fan, so you probably already hate me!

Your post was a lot, but your excellent use of punctuation made it a lot easier to read. Thanks for that.

To some of your points:

RE: Don't trust Philips/McCaskeys - The thing that has to be understood is that the Chicago Bears are a family owned business who's working with the second generation. Ownership structures are important because when you look at the people at the top are they focused on winning a championship or are they focused on just making sure the cash cow keeps producing? Even hands on owners like Jerry Jones don't get too deep in player/prospect evaluation and development. They are more focused on how those decisions impact the bottom line (meaning $).

RE: Nagy's failures - You are 100% correct. He knew what Mitch was when he signed up and brought in Foles. Neither has been close to their ceiling and I have little faith he can get the best out of them. Di Filippo on the other hand does have some success in his past. I'm hoping his promotion means he's more hands on there.

RE: Evaluating the draft - It's hard to do. All teams fail, but most fans only see their own team's failures then 'highlights' of other teams successes. IMHO the Bears have been a good drafting team, but have had misses on some positions that directly have lead them to roster they have (OL and QB).

RE: Pace - He's drafted well, but also through trades has put himself in the position to have less draft capital. It's almost like he knows his strengths but somehow sabotages himself with traded. I'll give him credit for taking some swings, but also acknowledge the team is who they are because of how some of those swings have not paid off.

RE: Wentz - I agree with you. The one thing I'd add is that Wentz does have some say where he goes. Not contractually, but in actuality the Eagles want him there, but he's forcing himself out of there. That's the team listening to him. The second part is with Wentz he's a man of conviction. I fully believe he'd go full Jake Plummer and not show up if he didn't want to go somewhere. I personally feel GM Howie Roseman has been leaking information of what he wants and what the Bears are offering knowing he has to trade to the Colts and he's trying to extract every bit of draft capital he can. It's crappy for the fans, but also what a good GM does.

RE: Bring Mitch back - I don't think they can. After this year the press conference after meeting with ownership revolved around how the QB position was their downfall and they need to upgrade that position. It felt like Pace and Nagy essentially bought themselves a year with the leadership with the clear mandate to upgrade the QB spot. How can they do that say that then bring back the status quo? I think they would let Mitch walk, but bring in a comparable vet. I'm thinking Dalton, Brissett, Taylor, Fitz or Newton. None of those guys are good enough and comparable to Mitch, but they all have one desirable trait in that they are not Mitch. That gives them a chance to spin things.

RE: Foles + rookie - Could happen, but it seems like both Pace and Nagy have to short of a leash to wait for a rookie to develop.

RE: Robinson - He's awesome and I think he's a top 5 WR in the league. The only way the Bears will retain him is by franchise tag or being the highest bidder. Tough for a team with no cap space to do, but there are moves to be made.

RE: Naggy - You misspelled his name. I knew what you were saying, so it doesn't matter, but others might go grammar police.
 

NCChiFan

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Welcome to the Forum, but you didn't have to make up a years worth of posts on your third posting.
 

Pegger

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I feel bad for @BluesBroJake . His first big post just happens to be on the day that Wentz gets traded to the Colts. It's almost destined to be buried under that trade fallout and people suggesting Dalton/Tyrod/Carr/Fitz is the next target.

If this was a slow news week then maybe more would read, but unfortunately that's not the case.
 

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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This is a good point. I'm not sure wtf was up with the Fox hire.

I actually understand the Nagy hire. He was a hot name and being from the Reid tree gave him even more recognition. Everyone was pretty happy after 2018. He has just continually regressed it seems and obviously struggles with personnel decisions.

Shit I meant Pace but yes Pace "fucked up" the Fox hire (can of worms there) but Nagy is not looking like it is panning out .
 

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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If he already knows how to use the multi-quote feature he is a 1st ballot CCS Hall of Famer for 2021.

Ah yes, the Bears fan measure of excellence for QBs applied to CCS posting. Why the hell not?
 

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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what’s the can of worms? the mccaskeys / accorsi forcing the hire i assume?

Oh yeah. Bring up Pace's responsibility for Fox and it is always a debate here from those who insist they know what happened behind the scenes.
 

Rob219_CBMB

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I’m new to the board, I have been a bears fan my whole life and that won’t change.

I love talking Bears football, I fully recognize I could be wrong on every point, and I welcome an open discussion.

My thoughts on the state of the Bears are as follows

I don’t believe in Ted Philips or the McCaskeys and I think they are the reason the Bears have been consistently bad for as long as they have been. These two failed to produce any kind of sustained continuity and if you listen to them speak and see their actions, they don’t display any of the qualities I think good leaders possess. They are not transparent which to me shows that they don’t believe in themselves. When reporters ask the tough questions, McCaskey and Philips deflect and don’t take ownership of their mistakes. That aside I think their biggest short coming is their inability to evaluate, utilize, and develop other leaders within the organization.

Developing and utilizing talent is the name of the game, the teams that do this better, will always finish better. It sucks to say but Naggy has opportunities in both these areas. I like Naggy, I think he has the right attitude and I think the players play hard for him but he was brought in to make the offense productive and he hasn’t executed in that area.

Naggy failed to develop and utilize Trubisky, he also had major influence in the decision to bring in Foles and nothing good has come of that either. I realize that Foles and Trubisky don’t have the most talent between them but I do think a better coach would’ve produced better results with the pair.

In 2018 the Bears offense was successful running RPO plays. This is what Trubisky is better at and for some reason Naggy has gone farther away from that over the last two seasons. Naggy also doesn’t do a good job of getting the running backs consistently involved in the passing game, they should be running a low to high passing progression where the backs catch the ball in space. Trubisky is a threat with his legs, another talent Naggy failed to utilize. If you watch other mobile quarterbacks you will see plays and even whole packages designed around this talent. How many designed QB runs did the Bears use this year or even last year? It wasn’t many. Trubisky had over 400 yards rushing in 2018, in both 2019 and 2020 he had under 200. Some of this comes from the RPO but this equals 20 more first downs each year which is significant for an offense as bad as the Bears. 20 first downs would extend a few more drives throughout the season and probably put a few more points on the board. 20 first downs for an 8-8 team, who lost some close games, could be the difference between 9-7 or even 10-6. I’m not saying this one thing turns around the entire offense but it is a microcosm of what is going on within the entire offense.

Trubisky deserves his portion of the blame on this as well. There have been plenty of missed throws and bad reads and just bad play. But there is a reason McVay and Shanahan get their non-elite QBs to the Super Bowl, and it is because they are able utilize their QBs strengths, minimize their weaknesses.

Patterson’s mis-use is another example of mis-used talent. Why are they handing the ball off to him out of the backfield? It was so painfully obvious what was going to happen every time he was in the game and really tough to watch at times. A better coach is able to design plays to get Patterson in the open field instead of running dives into the middle of the line every single time.

Naggy was able to keep the team together during a brutal stretch of football this year, which is very commendable and speaks to how well he has the teams ear, but the offense was undoubtedly better when Lazor took over the play calling. The last thing I will say on Naggy is that I just don’t feel like the Bears are well coached from a game management standpoint. They give up way too many penalties and they burn more dumb time outs than a high school football team on week 1. Well coached teams do not have these issues.

Ryan Pace

Despite passing on Mahomes and Watson, I think he has done a decent job of drafting and I also give him credit for building a good defense. But there have been plenty of bad draft picks, the Foles move was always a head scratcher for me, and as a leader I feel he has the same issues as Philips and McCaskey. He deflects the tough questions about Trubisky and when I listen to him talk it just seems like a lot of words with nothing really being said.

Given what you’ve read to this point you can imagine that my outlook is not good, but I think we need to be realistic.

The Bears can be a better team than they were this year but for the reasons above I think they will struggle next year.

This will result in Naggy and Pace being replaced.

Under this scenario I think it wise if ownership not let Pace use assets/draft picks beyond this years draft.

As an owner I feel this is the right move for two reasons.

One, if Pace and Naggy succeed this year you can always extend them. Also who knows how long Pace is even signed for? Even though I don’t think they are great at what they do, if Pace and Naggy can show they can get better while being a little more successful each year, ultimately the continuity this creates is better than starting from scratch.

Two, if Naggy and Pace are not successful this year, by limiting Pace’s use of future draft picks, you give the new regime (or even Pace with a new coach) more assets to work with and better chance to be successful.

This means Wentz will not be a Bear this year. I think Wentz has talent but why would anyone believe Naggy is going to get the best out of him? If Naggy is gone next year, will the next coach want Wentz? Why would Wentz want the Bears? Not that he has any control, but the Colts have a much better O-line and team overall. I didn’t really like the way Wentz handled his benching this year and he does have some injury concerns. Any kind of back injury for an athlete it is always concerning, plus Wentz still hasn’t been able to nail down his mechanics. To me this seems very familiar to the Cutler move for the Bears, this time around it just comes with more desperation.

I’ve been hearing a lot of the talking heads out there say the Bears are a contender with Wentz. I don’t think those people see the O-line issues that I do, they don’t see Naggy’s inability to utilize talent, and they don’t see a defense that has been good but has also been on the decline the last two years.

I see the Bears biggest needs as: QB, O-line, WR, and D-line

I think easiest path to success this year is for the Bears to bring back Trubisky and let him and Foles go at it again.

I know that seems like a crazy thing to say but here me out.

It’s a good fit for Mitch and for the Bears, he knows the offense and the chance he has to start for the Bears is more than he will get anywhere else. If Bears can get him cheap, why not? The Bears will also be better able to address their other needs.

I think the continuity of this move has a huge upside as well.

Both QBs know the offense. It’s tough to learn and NFL offense and be good at running it in the first year. I hated Cutler, but the guy had to learn a new offense almost every year he was with the Bears, that has a negative effect whether people admit it or not.

The other upside to this move is the Foles affect. Trubisky and Foles have already proven they can work well together. If Foles plays and is better than he was last year behind an upgraded online, I think that is an easier path to success than bringing in a QB like Wentz this year, and also sets the Bears up better by having all their draft picks for next year.

Another idea I don’t mind is if the Bears roll with Foles and draft a QB in this years 2nd, 3rd or 4th round. I know the chances of getting a future starting QB that way are slim but this way the other needs still get addressed and maybe Pace will start drafting a QB every year like he said he would.

The Bears also need to tag Allen Robinson, if Pace somehow lets him get away this year, that will seal his fate. Robinson is another player that Naggy has failed to utilize to his strengths, but I could go up and down the roster on that.

Sorry to drag on.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Beau Down!
Hang on! i'll BRB!
 

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