NBA Power Rankings

[TheStig]

They rebound well as a team. Ibaka is an above average rebounder for his position. Krstic is an average rebounder for his position. Green is about as good of a rebounder as Krstic, but I'd say his frame gives him a disadvantage rebounding against the biggger PFs in the league. Krstic is a solid defender. He can block shots pretty well and he gets a lot of help defense to help him too in Scott Brooks' system. He's a big body who is fundamentally-sound on both ends, and can hit the open shot.

OKC is pretty decent in their front-court. They probably need an Al Horford type of player to beat Miami or L.A., but then again... maybe they already have what they need. They are a year older than last year.

Adding a allstar big man like AL Hortford would signify getting a real front court player. That

 

[TheStig]

That's a huge stretch. Vince Carter was extremely overrated throughout his career - and especially in his NJ days. Richard Jefferson was never a great player either. Kidd had to carry that team. I don't even think they made it to the second round of the playoffs when they had that team together.

Not really. They made the 2nd round twice in a row. If Kristic was as well rounded as you made him out to be he'd have been a borderline allstar and they'd have made the finals.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Not really. They made the 2nd round twice in a row. If Kristic was as well rounded as you made him out to be he'd have been a borderline allstar and they'd have made the finals.

Krstic wasn't the reason they didn't do any real damage as a team. He was probably their 4th best player. That team had no depth whatsoever. And VC and RJ weren't ever that good.

The East had no quality contenders all decade long, aside from DET and MIA in the mid-00's. NJN made the Finals a couple times in '02 and '03 in very weak times in that conference. And that was before that lost all their depth, and had K-Mart instead of VC.

NJN didn't even make the Playoffs the last year that Kidd-VC-RJ were there. I believe they went 27-55... and I believe it was actually because Krstic got injured.

And I my wording was that Krstic was a solid C/PF... not that he was well-rounded.

 

[TheStig]

Krstic wasn't the reason they didn't do any real damage as a team. He was probably their 4th best player. That team had no depth whatsoever. And VC and RJ weren't ever that good.

The East had no quality contenders all decade long, aside from DET and MIA in the mid-00's. NJN made the Finals a couple times in '02 and '03 in very weak times in that conference. And that was before that lost all their depth, and had K-Mart instead of VC.

NJN didn't even make the Playoffs the last year that Kidd-VC-RJ were there. I believe they went 27-55... and I believe it was actually because Krstic got injured.

And I my wording was that Krstic was a solid C/PF... not that he was well-rounded.

Exactly, if Kmart being a superior big to Kristic makes the difference between finals and semi then that tells you a lot.

 

[BigP50]

I agree with where the Bulls are. They can control there own destiny and have the chance to have a special year.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Exactly, if Kmart being a superior big to Kristic makes the difference between finals and semi then that tells you a lot.

They lost a lot more than K-Mart. They also lost a lot of quality players like Kerry Kittles, (and good bench guys) Lucious Harris, Rodney Rogers, and Aaron Williams, and Dikembe Mutombo.

They then down-graded by losing every last bit of that depth. They were competing in an East that now had the Shaq-Wade-Heat and the Pistons... as opposed to nobody in 2002 and 2003 (when they made and lost in the Finals, both times). Krstic was a solid player for the Nets, but obviously gaining VC and losing K-Mart and Kittles made them worse defensively and less efficient offensively.

The 2005 Nets weren't that much worse than the Nets teams that made the Finals... but they were somewhat worse. The main difference was DET and MIA improving. Krstic played well, but the NJ bench and depth was God-awful.

 

[TheStig]

They lost a lot more than K-Mart. They also lost a lot of quality players like Kerry Kittles, (and good bench guys) Lucious Harris, Rodney Rogers, and Aaron Williams, and Dikembe Mutombo.

They then down-graded by losing every last bit of that depth. They were competing in an East that now had the Shaq-Wade-Heat and the Pistons... as opposed to nobody in 2002 and 2003 (when they made and lost in the Finals, both times). Krstic was a solid player for the Nets, but obviously gaining VC and losing K-Mart and Kittles made them worse defensively and less efficient offensively.

The 2005 Nets weren't that much worse than the Nets teams that made the Finals... but they were somewhat worse. The main difference was DET and MIA improving. Krstic played well, but the NJ bench and depth was God-awful.

Vince Carter was better than kittles and harris, Dikembe could barely make it up the court and Rogers was an ok sub. NAchbar, house and moore were decent for them. They also didn't lose to the heat the last year. So thats not an excuse. They just had a weak front court.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Vince Carter was better than kittles and harris, Dikembe could barely make it up the court and Rogers was an ok sub. NAchbar, house and moore were decent for them. They also didn't lose to the heat the last year. So thats not an excuse. They just had a weak front court.

The last year, Krstic and Carter were hurt... they had no chance to live up to their capability (losing in the ECF being that team's height). In 2005, they actually did lose to the Shaq-Wade Heat...

Man, it's a valid excuse when you're NJ. Indiana, Miami, and Detroit all improved a lot around that time... Indiana imploded after the 'malice in the Palace' obviously, but they were still there and looking great around 2004.

Nenad Krstic really just wasn't as good as Kenyon Martin... that's what it all comes down to. Vince Carter was a nice addition to replace Kittles. They were somewhat worse than the '02 and '03 Nets... I give you that. But the competition in the East was improved from the time the Nets were making the Finals... I do believe that the Kristic-Carter Nets could have made the Finals in '02 or '03 (only to get destroyed, obviously), despite downgrading from the actual rosters that won the East those years... their main competition in 2002... was the Pierce-Antoine Walker Celtics...

Krstic is solid man. He isn't really all that, but he's not a liability on either end. OKC is so awesome from positions 1-3 (and even 1-4) that it is all right that their 5 position consists of only 1 solid player (being Krstic).

 

[TheStig]

The last year, Krstic and Carter were hurt... they had no chance to live up to their capability (losing in the ECF being that team's height). In 2005, they actually did lose to the Shaq-Wade Heat...

Man, it's a valid excuse when you're NJ. Indiana, Miami, and Detroit all improved a lot around that time... Indiana imploded after the 'malice in the Palace' obviously, but they were still there and looking great around 2004.

Nenad Krstic really just wasn't as good as Kenyon Martin... that's what it all comes down to. Vince Carter was a nice addition to replace Kittles. They were somewhat worse than the '02 and '03 Nets... I give you that. But the competition in the East was improved from the time the Nets were making the Finals... I do believe that the Kristic-Carter Nets could have made the Finals in '02 or '03 (only to get destroyed, obviously), despite downgrading from the actual rosters that won the East those years... their main competition in 2002... was the Pierce-Antoine Walker Celtics...

Krstic is solid man. He isn't really all that, but he's not a liability on either end. OKC is so awesome from positions 1-3 (and even 1-4) that it is all right that their 5 position consists of only 1 solid player (being Krstic).

Ugh, here let me make it clear. Yahoo ranked Kristic at 22, Jeff Green at 25. Thats not a good frontcourt! Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks they are below average.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Ugh, here let me make it clear. Yahoo ranked Kristic at 22, Jeff Green at 25. Thats not a good frontcourt! Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks they are below average.

The problem I'm having is that you are using words like "good."

Ibaka is a very good rebounder and very good defender. Jeff Green is well above average too.

Look at the options OKC has to use at 4-5:

A) Krstic+Ibaka - solid at defending the KG-Perkins Bynum-Gasol type of front-courts. Not a very good low-post presense (unless they are playing against teams like GSW) but they will get you garbage points in the paint, regardless of who they are playing against. And at a high percentage.

B) Collison+Ibaka - Niether is a true NBA Center and niether are very good established low-post scorers. But that is a very good defensive and exceptional rebounding front-court.

C) Krstic+Green - Green simply cant defend frontcourts like LA or Boston. But does a decent job on guys like Nowitzki. This isn't a very good rebounding group when you see them together at the same time. Usually they use this group when they want to gamble on defense and run the fast break. Green is a great open court scorer. And can hit the 3 ball in transition at the 4 position.

D) Ibaka+Green - This group is even better at forcing turnovers and running the break. Offensively it is very good at spreading the sloor in the half court. Green can also defend most NBA PFs pretty exceptionally.

E) Kristic+Durant - pretty good rebounding front-court because both of those guys have height. Durant won't typically play much PF but he is surely capable on offense. He isn't the type to defend a Gasol or Duncan on defense though. This would mean great shooting in the half-court offense.

F) Ibaka+Durant - again, pretty good rebounding (unless you are playing LA, MEM, or CHI). And stellar in a transition offensive, high-paced style. These guys are both very solid post defenders.

I didn't even use Collison much because he is designed to be used for limited minutes. He gives you solid defense at the PF position, but crappy at rebounding or defending against typical NBA Centers. But he can score a little bit in the post.

Nor did I use Cole Adrich at all. He is more like a wild card.

 

[TheStig]

Versatility doesn't replace quality. They are missing quality in most of those lineups. Doing one or two things good is not a quality player. As I pointed out, their starters are ranked below average.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Versatility doesn't replace quality. They are missing quality in most of those lineups. Doing one or two things good is not a quality player. As I pointed out, their starters are ranked below average.

quality offense - yes. I absolutely agree. All of those guys have one or more holes in their offensive abilities. And none of them stand out on offense at all. Despite the fact they all play intelligent, team basketball.

quality defense - those 4/5 line-ups pretty much all have it.

quality rebounding - the +2 rebounding margin and being in the top 5 in total rebounds speaks for itself.

 

[TheStig]

quality offense - yes. I absolutely agree. All of those guys have one or more holes in their offensive abilities. And none of them stand out on offense at all. Despite the fact they all play intelligent, team basketball.

quality defense - those 4/5 line-ups pretty much all have it.

quality rebounding - the +2 rebounding margin and being in the top 5 in total rebounds speaks for itself.

No, just no. Ibaka is a good rebounder and blocker but he doesn't play much because he is raw. Kristic is an average defender and rebounder at best. Collison is not very good. Green is not a good pf defender or rebounder. Thats why their top two guys are ranked below average. This reminds me of what we used to have before we got Ben Wallace. Its not a front court of a contender. They need a major upgrade or they won't get out of the second round. You can't have guys that can just do one thing well.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

No, just no. Ibaka is a good rebounder and blocker but he doesn't play much because he is raw. Kristic is an average defender and rebounder at best. Collison is not very good. Green is not a good pf defender or rebounder. Thats why their top two guys are ranked below average. This reminds me of what we used to have before we got Ben Wallace. Its not a front court of a contender. They need a major upgrade or they won't get out of the second round. You can't have guys that can just do one thing well.

Besides the Lakers, what team was better than OKC out west?

The Bulls major problem was they didn't have anything of a contender...

 

[TheStig]

Besides the Lakers, what team was better than OKC out west?

The Bulls major problem was they didn't have anything of a contender...

Is this a trick question? They were an 8 seed so clearly there were 7 better teams throughout the year.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Is this a trick question? They were an 8 seed so clearly there were 7 better teams throughout the year.

They were like 3 games out of the 2nd seed.

And they were the only team besides Boston that actually gave L.A. a fight in the Playoffs last year. They absolutely destroyed L.A. in Game 3 and scrapped out Game 4. They even put up a fight in every game in Staples, and nearly forced a Game 7.

The only team I would even say could fathomably have been a better team last year was Denver or Phoenix. But both those teams are done.

OKC > Portland

OKC > San Antonio (most likely)

OKC > Dallas (fairly certain)

 

[TheStig]

They were like 3 games out of the 2nd seed.

And they were the only team besides Boston that actually gave L.A. a fight in the Playoffs last year. They absolutely destroyed L.A. in Game 3 and scrapped out Game 4. They even put up a fight in every game in Staples, and nearly forced a Game 7.

The only team I would even say could fathomably have been a better team last year was Denver or Phoenix. But both those teams are done.

OKC > Portland

OKC > San Antonio (most likely)

OKC > Dallas (fairly certain)

The records say otherwise. I think thats why they play the games and not go by what you say. Regardless, they are a good team, no one debated that. But they aren't going to be real contenders till they upgrade their frontcourt. Nenad Kristic, Jeff Green and Ibaka aren't winning a title.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The records say otherwise. I think thats why they play the games and not go by what you say. Regardless, they are a good team, no one debated that. But they aren't going to be real contenders till they upgrade their frontcourt. Nenad Kristic, Jeff Green and Ibaka aren't winning a title.

Neither are Luc Longely, Bill Wennington, or Jason Caffey. Never say never.

 

[TheStig]

Neither are Luc Longely, Bill Wennington, or Jason Caffey. Never say never.

I didn't realize MJ, Pip and Rodman went to Oklahoma. I also think you forgot the best starting big of the group. Rodman played pf last I remember.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I didn't realize MJ, Pip and Rodman went to Oklahoma. I also think you forgot the best starting big of the group. Rodman played pf last I remember.

Rodman > Green, Ibaka, Kristic > Longely, and everything else the Bulls had at those 2 positions. LAL, MIA, or BOS will likely win it all, but OKC is a wildcard... and a distant 4th. Never say never.