NBA Scout on the Bulls

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In this rugged economy, one team's salary dump is another team's treasure. So when the Sacramento Kings went looking for a partner to help them clear $10 million of cap space around the Feb. 19 trading deadline, they found a willing collaborator in the Chicago Bulls.

At the time the Bulls acquired seventh-year guard John Salmons, and re-acquired two-time All-Star center Brad Miller on Feb. 18, Chicago was 23-30, losers of eight of 13 and struggling to find some footing in the Eastern Conference playoff race. "I think we're adding two really good pieces that we're excited about, and hopefully we can get them here soon and get them acclimated as soon as possible," Bulls coach Vinny Del Negro said then.

It took about a month to get the two new players in the flow as the Bulls and the Milwaukee Bucks did the cha-cha in and out of the eighth spot. But since an impressive 97-79 win over the New Orleans Hornets on March 14, the Bulls have won eight of their last 11 and tightened their grip on a postseason berth with a three-game lead on Charlotte for the East's final playoff spot.

Salmons has been particularly impressive lately, averaging 22.3 points per game on .536 shooting in his last 10 games. It's probably no coincidence that the Bulls lost in Indiana on March 31, a game Salmons missed with a sore groin.

"Salmons is another scorer for them," an NBA scout said, "and he does it better than [Andres] Nocioni, who didn't have a definite position as a three-four or Thabo [Sefolosha] who was a two-three. Salmons has a defined role. He's a specialist, where the other guys kind of did a couple things well."

Miller, who played 105 games with the Bulls from 2000-02 before being traded to Indiana, has also provided steady production off the bench. Miller has averaged 13.5 points per game and shot .526 from the field in the last 11 games in a backup role to Joakim Noah.

"Miller is a guy who can pass, spread the floor and hit that 18-foot jumper," the scout said. "Now, you can run the pick-and-roll with Miller and someone has to account for him. It gives their offense another dimension it didn't have [before the trade].

"Brad is a guy that shares the ball. It's similar to the move Charlotte made in getting Boris Diaw and Raja Bell."

The scout also noted the Bulls have been able to go small at times with Rookie of the Year candidate Derrick Rose, former starting point guard Kirk Hinrich, sharpshooter Ben Gordon and Salmons.

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year," said the scout. "They have a great guard rotation with Rose, Gordon and Hinrich. They have so many guys now who can score.

"Rose can get anywhere he wants, and when he gets into the lane, he has options."

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/rob_peterson/04/07/eastern.insider.20090407/

 

[cool007]

Great article and it is no secret that the trade we made at the deadline was nothing short of awesome. That trade pretty much locked it up for us to make the playoffs and it is paying dividends right now.

Also, by unloading Nocioni's bad contract, it really will help us down the road.

Salmons and Miller give us that new dimension that we didn't have before. Salmons is another pure scorer that takes pressure off of BG and Rose (it showed against Indiana), and Miller is so good with pick and roll and his passing is ELITE for a Big man.

Now let's go after Bosh or Amare in the summer.

 

[Kush77]

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year"

Really? Outstanding? Okay.

 

[Manic Devourer]

Kush77 wrote:

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year"

Really? Outstanding? Okay.

Maybe, outstanding was taking a little too far but Kirk's play throughout the year has been quite consistent and at a very high level coming off the bench.

A lot of people thought he couldn't be as effecient or effective off the bench but he has been and you've got to give credit where credit is due. He has definitely been the most consistent point guard for us this season.

 

[cool007]

Kush77 wrote:

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year"

Really? Outstanding? Okay.

Yeah, I caught that too and I was going to say something about it but IMO, it's a good thing that other teams are thinking that way.

Maybe it won't be too tough to trade Hinrich in the summer then???

But yeah, "Outstanding"??? Maybe these coaches/scout/GM sees something that we don't??? Hinrich has always been loved by all the coaches we had - same with all the other announcers, scouts, GMs etc.

It seems like that toughness, grittyness, big time defense, scrappiness is in everyone's mind now and it won't go away until he retires now.

 

[wjb1492]

cool007 wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year"

Really? Outstanding? Okay.

Yeah, I caught that too and I was going to say something about it but IMO, it's a good thing that other teams are thinking that way.

Maybe it won't be too tough to trade Hinrich in the summer then???

But yeah, "Outstanding"??? Maybe these coaches/scout/GM sees something that we don't??? Hinrich has always been loved by all the coaches we had - same with all the other announcers, scouts, GMs etc.

It seems like that toughness, grittyness, big time defense, scrappiness is in everyone's mind now and it won't go away until he retires now.

While I do think outstanding is a bit excessive, I also think Kirk is having a far better year than a lot of people on the message boards want to give him credit for. Maybe that's because people are bitter over how Ben has been treated, maybe because they are so anxious for Derrick to be "the guy" and see Kirk standing in the way, maybe it's a reaction to the "golden boy" perception that the org favors him, or maybe a lot of people just prefer a flashy highlight-filled style of basketball, which Kirk's game is pretty much not.

Whatever it is, a lot of people on the various boards seem to focus on Kirk's flaws and look for ways to discount what he's doing well. I'm humored in the game threads when people start griping about the game going to hell when Kirk first checks in, even though all the statistical evidence supports that he has helped the team far more than hurt it. I think my favorite is the comment about Kirk missing an open 3 again, in spite of the fact that he's hitting 42.5% of them, second best on the team behind Tim Thomas.

It's also possible that whoever the quote is from was commenting in an individual-specific manner, as in Kirk is having an outstanding year for him and playing up to his abilities for the most part.

 

[cool007]

The wording is bad.

Hinrich IS having a "very good" year but saying Outstanding is just ridiculous. If Hinrich has been outstanding than what do you say about Gordon and Rose's season???

 

[??? ??????]

cool007 wrote:

The wording is bad.

Hinrich IS having a "very good" year but saying Outstanding is just ridiculous. If Hinrich has been outstanding than what do you say about Gordon and Rose's season???

Derrick Rose is having an All NBA First Team Season and Ben Gordon is having an MVP season!

 

[TheStig]

Brad Miller and John Salmons have really stabilized this group, they don't have the highs and lows of our other players and really give us something we can count on every night. We have been so much more consistent as a team with them and they add another dimension to our offense. They are also much more polished offensive players than Drew Gooden and Noc, its amazing that we didn't have to give up some sort of pick, we really robbed the kings.

 

[wjb1492]

cool007 wrote:

The wording is bad.

Hinrich IS having a "very good" year but saying Outstanding is just ridiculous. If Hinrich has been outstanding than what do you say about Gordon and Rose's season???

I agree it could be worded better, but it's only ridiculous if you assume the speaker meant it in an all-inclusive, comparative sense. If he had said Gordon was having an outstanding year instead, would anyone be concerned about how you describe D-Wade's season in comparison, or would we assume he meant Ben was having an outstanding season based on what Ben can do? Same with Derrick, wouldn't we all just assume the speaker was invoking the context of "for a rookie?"

 

[??? ??????]

TheStig wrote:

Brad Miller and John Salmons have really stabilized this group, they don't have the highs and lows of our other players and really give us something we can count on every night. We have been so much more consistent as a team with them and they add another dimension to our offense. They are also much more polished offensive players than Drew Gooden and Noc, its amazing that we didn't have to give up some sort of pick, we really robbed the kings.

Yeah. Everytime we've had veterans who could still play, we've done fairly well.

With Antonio Davis we were pretty good. Then when we got P.J. Brown and Ben Wallace, we did well again.

 

[Manic Devourer]

??? ?????? wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Brad Miller and John Salmons have really stabilized this group, they don't have the highs and lows of our other players and really give us something we can count on every night. We have been so much more consistent as a team with them and they add another dimension to our offense. They are also much more polished offensive players than Drew Gooden and Noc, its amazing that we didn't have to give up some sort of pick, we really robbed the kings.

Yeah. Everytime we've had veterans who could still play, we've done fairly well.

With Antonio Davis we were pretty good. Then when we got P.J. Brown and Ben Wallace, we did well again.

You can say the same for Kirk and Gordon now. They've had a consistent year as they've ever had in their respective careers.

Being a good NBA player is about giving the same effort and level production night in and night out, something that Tyrus and Noah struggle with, which is why we often lose when they play poorly because we rely on them so heavily in our front court. Same goes with Rose to be fair, though as a rookie he has been great, he's been just as inconsistent as our 2 big men.

I think what the scout was trying to say, as a third guard Kirk has been great in his production and consistency off the bench and he has. He hasn't had too amazing games, but he hasn't had too many down games either, he has played a consistent level throughout the season, and that's what you want from your veteran players.

 

[TheStig]

Kush77 wrote:

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year"

Really? Outstanding? Okay.

I think Kirk has been outstanding off the bench. I would rank him in the top 5 for 6th man of the year. I think Kirk and Brad Miller are an excellent 6th and 7th men. I don't know what more you could ask of kirk in his current role, he brings energy, shooting, ball handling passing and defense. Now I don't think its worth 10 mill per year but he is still great off the bench.

 

[Kush77]

Manic Devourer wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year"

Really? Outstanding? Okay.

Maybe, outstanding was taking a little too far but Kirk's play throughout the year has been quite consistent and at a very high level coming off the bench.

A lot of people thought he couldn't be as effecient or effective off the bench but he has been and you've got to give credit where credit is due. He has definitely been the most consistent point guard for us this season.

How exactly has he been more consistent than Derrick Rose?

I'll give him credit for being a solid bench player. The word outstanding is ridiculous, and just proves that people want to throw praise at him any chance they get. Hinrich is an average player. That's all. Dwight Howard is outstanding. Not Hinrich.

 

[Manic Devourer]

Kush77 wrote:

Manic Devourer wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year"

Really? Outstanding? Okay.

Maybe, outstanding was taking a little too far but Kirk's play throughout the year has been quite consistent and at a very high level coming off the bench.

A lot of people thought he couldn't be as effecient or effective off the bench but he has been and you've got to give credit where credit is due. He has definitely been the most consistent point guard for us this season.

How exactly has he been more consistent than Derrick Rose?

I'll give him credit for being a solid bench player. The word outstanding is ridiculous, and just proves that people want to throw praise at him any chance they get. Hinrich is an average player. That's all. Dwight Howard is outstanding. Not Hinrich.

In terms of production in the respective minutes that they both receive I think that Kirk has been more consistent throughout the season than Rose.

As I said, Rose has had better spectacular games without question, but he also has had plenty of games where he has been invisible as well. Kirk on the other hand for the most part has had a consistent level of play game in and game out, if he isn't shooting well he is usually playing decent defense, or passing the ball well and vice versa.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Kirk is a better player than Rose, but in regards to consistent performances from game to game, I'd say KIrk has provided more consistent play over Rose.

 

[TheStig]

Manic Devourer wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Brad Miller and John Salmons have really stabilized this group, they don't have the highs and lows of our other players and really give us something we can count on every night. We have been so much more consistent as a team with them and they add another dimension to our offense. They are also much more polished offensive players than Drew Gooden and Noc, its amazing that we didn't have to give up some sort of pick, we really robbed the kings.

Yeah. Everytime we've had veterans who could still play, we've done fairly well.

With Antonio Davis we were pretty good. Then when we got P.J. Brown and Ben Wallace, we did well again.

You can say the same for Kirk and Gordon now. They've had a consistent year as they've ever had in their respective careers.

Being a good NBA player is about giving the same effort and level production night in and night out, something that Tyrus and Noah struggle with, which is why we often lose when they play poorly because we rely on them so heavily in our front court. Same goes with Rose to be fair, though as a rookie he has been great, he's been just as inconsistent as our 2 big men.

I think what the scout was trying to say, as a third guard Kirk has been great in his production and consistency off the bench and he has. He hasn't had too amazing games, but he hasn't had too many down games either, he has played a consistent level throughout the season, and that's what you want from your veteran players.

Right but I meant that Salmons has brought consistency to the SF position. Deng and Noc were wildly inconsistent and Brad Miller has helped bring consistency, passing and range to our front court. Ben and Kirk as you said were very consistent but besides the backcourt, it has been a crap shoot all year.

 

[Fred]

"Maybe that's because people are bitter over how Ben has been treated, maybe because they are so anxious for Derrick to be "the guy" and see Kirk standing in the way, maybe it's a reaction to the "golden boy" perception that the org favors him, or maybe a lot of people just prefer a flashy highlight-filled style of basketball, which Kirk's game is pretty much not."

Or maybe some people are still bitter about the 11 million he made last year for CBA-like production. Maybe some were bitter about his 14% shooting in the clutch, and his terrible start, and his refusal to take any of the blame for it. And guys like Travis Diener torching him. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I've always said, he'd be great off the bench, and he has been this year. It's a reflection of what a pro he is, that he's come back this year and improved his shooting percentage to 43%. If he played this way all year, he might be worth the 10 million he's collecting.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Kirk has been good since returning from injury, I dont know why the scout went out of his way to praise him like that however if more scouts think like that maybe we can trick some team in taking Kirk for a nice package.

 

[Kush77]

Manic Devourer wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

Manic Devourer wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

"Kirk Hinrich is having an outstanding year"

Really? Outstanding? Okay.

Maybe, outstanding was taking a little too far but Kirk's play throughout the year has been quite consistent and at a very high level coming off the bench.

A lot of people thought he couldn't be as effecient or effective off the bench but he has been and you've got to give credit where credit is due. He has definitely been the most consistent point guard for us this season.

How exactly has he been more consistent than Derrick Rose?

I'll give him credit for being a solid bench player. The word outstanding is ridiculous, and just proves that people want to throw praise at him any chance they get. Hinrich is an average player. That's all. Dwight Howard is outstanding. Not Hinrich.

In terms of production in the respective minutes that they both receive I think that Kirk has been more consistent throughout the season than Rose.

As I said, Rose has had better spectacular games without question, but he also has had plenty of games where he has been invisible as well. Kirk on the other hand for the most part has had a consistent level of play game in and game out, if he isn't shooting well he is usually playing decent defense, or passing the ball well and vice versa.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Kirk is a better player than Rose, but in regards to consistent performances from game to game, I'd say KIrk has provided more consistent play over Rose.

I don't know. I get what your saying about minutes and all, but Rose has basically matched Kirk's career highs in his rookie season. So I would give the nod to Rose being more consistent.

 

[Kush77]

Hinrich is having himself a nice game tonight so far.