New Expansion Thread

[HawkWriter]

2 teams in Toronto is fucking stupid.

Quebec would be the only city that could get another team.

When Balsillie tried moving the Preds to Hamilton he (or someone) pre-maturely set up a season ticket holder site and had a pretty good commitment. I think it is one of the better options and should be interesting to see what happens if Hamilton comes up again. I do think Hamilton would draw better than a Seattle but I wouldn't go ahead with it without a commitment. Just some quick AHL stats...last year Hamilton drew an average of 4.8k fans, Rockford 4.2k, Toronto 5.4k, and Chicago 7.9k (second in the AHL after Hershey).

Any team that re-locates should (and most likely will) go the route that Winnipeg did. Get 3 - 6 year commitments from season ticket holders who want to purchase season tickets. Guaranteed money that the franchise can bank on and Winnipeg did a nice job of this.

I do like the possibility of Quebec but their lack of corporate sponsorship got them in trouble in the past. They definitely have some dedicated fans still in that area and if they could get a guaranteed 10K season ticket holders, they would have to be very seriously considered.

 

[Jntg4]

2 teams in Toronto is fucking stupid.

Quebec would be the only city that could get another team.

Toronto would be able to support a 2nd team, all I said.

it also wont be in Hamilton or a city that small in nature. you can book that. there is enough issues with current teams and too many teams, they wont be expanding to a no name city. think....its called business.

Hamilton is a pretty good hockey market. Plus, they have a CFL team, so they've proven they can supply a team with a good enough attendance. Hamilton is right behind Winnipeg in population, way ahead of wsm77's Halifax suggestion.

 

[whitesoxman77]

Toronto would be able to support a 2nd team, all I said.



Hamilton is a pretty good hockey market. Plus, they have a CFL team, so they've proven they can supply a team with a good enough attendance. Hamilton is right behind Winnipeg in population, way ahead of wsm77's Halifax suggestion.

Halifax would service Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and PEI, better than just spoiling Ontario some more


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[southern_cross_116]

Technically speaking Montreal has had 2 NHL teams in the past - Montreal Maroons ... I think maybe Toronto did as well... but not positive on that - 'The Original 6' only refers to those teams that survived... as I believe in the past there were also the Pittsburgh Pirates, and St Louis Eagles - but yeah whatever, I don't think there is the talent for 30 teams let alone 32.

Seattle sounds like this decade's version of "Kansas City" - just because a city builds an arena doesn't actually mean that they are anything other than a bargaining chip with the town where a franchise is already located - despite all promises made by hired marketing companies by towns in the market to move a team to (all of which channels Dickie Dunne, Florida and Reggie Dunlap).

 

[DewsSox79]

you guys can talk about toronto have 500 teams and hamilton and what not...neither will happen for one and some of you are missing the point.

teams need to be eliminated, not more teams added. At worst some teams need to be relocated.

adding more teams to water down a dry league to begin is horrible business. the talent isnt there, the fans arent there. I dont care what city, it wont work.

 

[Crystallas]

The fans might actually be there if the fucking NHL didn't have a piss poor method of negotiating with it's player union. Expansion is possible, but at this rate, the NHL will need around 6 years to get the old fans back into the arenas.

 

[Jntg4]

Expansion will lead to no further shortage of fans if placed in Seattle or Canada. The reason there seems to be this "shortage" is because of poorly placed Southern teams that were doomed from the start and NY market being split between three teams and LA between 2 when they aren't huge hockey cities like Toronto. Talent pool being diluted is a common observation I won't argue with though.

Honestly, I'd prefer to relocate Southern teams north instead, but I don't think serving good hockey markets is such a bad thing.

And yes, there were the Montreal Maroons and Canadiens at the same time, but that was so long ago that nobody was averaging 10K/game attendance. Pittsburgh Pirates predate the Penguins by a good 40-some years. St. Louis Eagles lasted for one season (believe it was 1934-35) after relocating from the original Ottawa Senators and predate the Blues by quite a long stretch.

 

[ChitwnRyan60452]

LOL @ "Gary Bettman trying to salvage his reputation"

 

[DewsSox79]

if you are for expansion and not subtraction or relocation you shouldnt follow hockey.

 

[Captain Iago]

There's been some articles about the Oilers being moved

Rhetoric since the public didn't agree for the public funds to support a new building.

 

[Captain Iago]

The fans might actually be there if the fucking NHL didn't have a piss poor method of negotiating with it's player union. Expansion is possible, but at this rate, the NHL will need around 6 years to get the old fans back into the arenas.

It's the "best fans in the world" and they always come crawling back.

----------------

TO (or the area) might have the capacity to support an additional team, but I agree here with others who have stated - please don't water down any further an already watered down league. It would be so bad for competition.

 

[Captain Iago]

LOL @ "Gary Bettman trying to salvage his reputation"

I don't think his reputation matters at all. The owners love him - he represents them well and takes all of the criticism that should be directed towards the owners. Despite the work stoppages, the game and its revenues have grown under his tenure.

 

[Jntg4]

if you are for expansion and not subtraction or relocation you shouldnt follow hockey.

I'm not saying I'm for it, I'm saying that those markets wsm77 says wont work probably would support a team quite well.

 

[Crystallas]

It's the "best fans in the world" and they always come crawling back.

You're a bit more optimistic than me. I see more collateral damage from this lockout.

 

[dabynsky]

Anyone who thinks TO couldn't support another team hasn't spent much time in Southern Ontario. The Leafs are the absolute king of the area, and a second Toronto or surrounding area would outdraw quite a few teams. That said, the solution ultimately is moving the game out of southern cities that won't support it and cut the number of teams down by as much as a third.

 

[Jntg4]

Anyone who thinks TO couldn't support another team hasn't spent much time in Southern Ontario. The Leafs are the absolute king of the area, and a second Toronto or surrounding area would outdraw quite a few teams. That said, the solution ultimately is moving the game out of southern cities that won't support it and cut the number of teams down by as much as a third.

:yep:

 

[HawkWriter]

Anyone who thinks TO couldn't support another team hasn't spent much time in Southern Ontario. The Leafs are the absolute king of the area, and a second Toronto or surrounding area would outdraw quite a few teams. That said, the solution ultimately is moving the game out of southern cities that won't support it and cut the number of teams down by as much as a third.

I would be very surprised if the NHL ever gets under the 30 team number. The biggest reason is that the NHLPA would throw an enormous fit (as they should when representing their clients) if 1/3 of their clients are going to lose their jobs. On top of that, I don't see Bettman or the owners going along with that in any way.

I don't think cutting the number of teams down is needed. I certainly don't think there should be expansion. I do think there should be some re-location of atleast 2 teams and then go from there.

 

[Jntg4]

I would be very surprised if the NHL ever gets under the 30 team number. The biggest reason is that the NHLPA would throw an enormous fit (as they should when representing their clients) if 1/3 of their clients are going to lose their jobs. On top of that, I don't see Bettman or the owners going along with that in any way.

I don't think cutting the number of teams down is needed. I certainly don't think there should be expansion. I do think there should be some re-location of atleast 2 teams and then go from there.

This, agree 100%

 

[dabynsky]

I would be very surprised if the NHL ever gets under the 30 team number. The biggest reason is that the NHLPA would throw an enormous fit (as they should when representing their clients) if 1/3 of their clients are going to lose their jobs. On top of that, I don't see Bettman or the owners going along with that in any way.

I don't think cutting the number of teams down is needed. I certainly don't think there should be expansion. I do think there should be some re-location of atleast 2 teams and then go from there.

never said it was likely. Cutting just two teams would be extremely difficult but the huge difference between the haves and have nots is a big issue.

 

[icehogfan08]

I'm not for the expansion, but I just want to throw this out there. Hamilton only avereaged 4,848 fans in the AHL last year. Thants in the lower half of the league, they are also the affiliate team of Montreal.