No Surprise: Chicago Cubs Claim Daniel Bard Off Waivers

[waldo7239117]

I'm just not a fan of it at all and never will be. I'll never be convinced.

 

[Jntg4]

Never sign anybody! #waldo

 

[waldo7239117]

Never sign anybody! #waldo

I'm on board for the Cubs to sign players, but not Cano or Ellsbury. Sign Choo if the price is right and bat him 2nd.

 

[waldo7239117]

And go all in for that Jap pitcher. He's exactly what fits the Cubs plans and then trade Shark anyway you can.

 

[Jntg4]

And go all in for that Jap pitcher. He's exactly what fits the Cubs plans and then trade Shark anyway you can.

Trade Shark anyway we can? That doesn't sound like a plan to get max value for a player whose numbers have been inflated recently.

 

[SilenceS]

Trade Shark anyway we can? That doesn't sound like a plan to get max value for a player whose numbers have been inflated recently.

Yea, Sharks numbers have been unlucky this year followed by what I believe is a lack of focus. His trend started down when he expressed his unhappiness with the cubs trading away a bunch of players. I think he gets right and even then he is under control for two more years. No reason to trade him unless you are getting big time prospects back.

 

[waldo7239117]

Trade Shark anyway we can? That doesn't sound like a plan to get max value for a player whose numbers have been inflated recently.

I'm not a fan of him and really never was. He's a 3 at best. I have Wood over him and another pitcher will be in the mix. The Cubs won't get a top line starting pitching prospect for him, so his value isn't great. Should have kept Garza and traded Samardzija, prolly better move for longrun.

 

[brett05]

I'm on board for the Cubs to sign players, but not Cano or Ellsbury. Sign Choo if the price is right and bat him 2nd.

So you are on board if good to great players take less years and less money on the open market. That's your position, right?

 

[waldo7239117]

So you are on board if good to great players take less years and less money on the open market. That's your position, right?

It all depends on the player. If the Cubs could get Cano at 6/7 years at 20-22 million per, go for it. Ellsbury wants 100 million to be on the disable list. I'm just not a huge fan of Choo, that's all.

 

[brett05]

It all depends on the player. If the Cubs could get Cano at 6/7 years at 20-22 million per, go for it. Ellsbury wants 100 million to be on the disable list. I'm just not a huge fan of Choo, that's all.

Why would any good to great player take less years and/or less money to play with the Cubs if they are in demand?

 

[Boobaby1]

Why would any good to great player take less years and/or less money to play with the Cubs if they are in demand?

They won't. It's a Cub thing that people get hung up on because they look at all of the bad contracts, and none of the good. A lot of people feel because the Cubs have been burned a couple of times, that the whole idea to sign premium free agents should be tossed out the window. Many have also forgotten that the Cubs haven't been spenders for very long.

A lot live in Cardinal fantasy land and that in St Louis, they can do no wrong. Sorry, but Chris Carpenter has been on the shelf a few times, Scott Rolen also. Rafael Furcal, Khalil Greene, Mark Mulder and Tino Martinez never lived up to their hype, Mark McGwire left early on his contract. Never once did it stop the Cardinals from persuing players.

As for the Cubs, Theo also stated last year at the winter meetings and I've expressed this many times, that "elite" players approached him and stated that they would like to play for the Cubs regardless of where they were in the standings or direction they were presently taking.

Why would you even state that publically if you had no intentions of ever signing elite players?

The brass has also stated that if the right player came along that would help the team moving forward, that they would go for it. If Theo brought free agent players into Boston, surely he can do it in Chicago.

 

[waldo7239117]

Nevermind, just forget about it.... I'm not getting my point across, so I'm done.

 

[beckdawg]

A lot live in Cardinal fantasy land and that in St Louis, they can do no wrong. Sorry, but Chris Carpenter has been on the shelf a few times, Scott Rolen also. Rafael Furcal, Khalil Greene, Mark Mulder and Tino Martinez never lived up to their hype, Mark McGwire left early on his contract. Never once did it stop the Cardinals from persuing players.

Where did anyone say the cardinals can't do any wrong? My entire point was that when things do go wrong they are able to quickly recover because they aren't tied long term to many players. On the contrary, they've gotten great seasons out of short term older players in Beltran and Berkman the past few years. The only players they are tied long term to are Wainwright, Molina and Holiday. Two of those players were home grown and the other was acquired via trade. Before that it was Rolen Pujols and Carpenter. One was home grown, one was a scrap heap find and the third was a trade. Before that it was Edmonds and McGwire both trades. This is a successful team for decades who's not ventured heavily into FA.

 

[SilenceS]

Where did anyone say the cardinals can't do any wrong? My entire point was that when things do go wrong they are able to quickly recover because they aren't tied long term to many players. On the contrary, they've gotten great seasons out of short term older players in Beltran and Berkman the past few years. The only players they are tied long term to are Wainwright, Molina and Holiday. Two of those players were home grown and the other was acquired via trade. Before that it was Rolen Pujols and Carpenter. One was home grown, one was a scrap heap find and the third was a trade. Before that it was Edmonds and McGwire both trades. This is a successful team for decades who's not ventured heavily into FA.

Pujols was a one in a million get. Its what sustained them for years. We would be lucky if one of our minor leaguers have half of his career. Hate to burst peoples bubble, but the Cubs have to go through FA to balance the lineup. Even if you are waiting for our minor leaguers, they are all righties expect Alcantara and Volgelbach. A major league lineup has to have balance and the Cubs have to find it somewhere else.

 

[beckdawg]

Pujols was a one in a million get. Its what sustained them for years. We would be lucky if one of our minor leaguers have half of his career. Hate to burst peoples bubble, but the Cubs have to go through FA to balance the lineup. Even if you are waiting for our minor leaguers, they are all righties expect Alcantara and Volgelbach. A major league lineup has to have balance and the Cubs have to find it somewhere else.

The cardinals have been good for at least 25 years. To say pujols is the only reason is naive. And whether it was skill or luck, they found him. They've found guys like Craig Matt Carpenter David Freese Jaime García and numerous more who have all become decent major league players and were not high round picks. Sure none have had the impact Pujols has but they clearly have shown an ability to find gems later.

As for balancing the line up, who said they can't sign ANY free agents? All I've ever been against is signing huge FA deals in the 7 year $150 mil range. Not to mention the fact part of the reason the Cardinals have been so successful has been trades. If the cubs focus on getting a lot of talent into their farm system they can go out and trade for a left handed bat.

 

[SilenceS]

The cardinals have been good for at least 25 years. To say pujols is the only reason is naive. And whether it was skill or luck, they found him. They've found guys like Craig Matt Carpenter David Freese Jaime García and numerous more who have all become decent major league players and were not high round picks. Sure none have had the impact Pujols has but they clearly have shown an ability to find gems later.

As for balancing the line up, who said they can't sign ANY free agents? All I've ever been against is signing huge FA deals in the 7 year $150 mil range. Not to mention the fact part of the reason the Cardinals have been so successful has been trades. If the cubs focus on getting a lot of talent into their farm system they can go out and trade for a left handed bat.

Pujols was the best hitter in the majors and throughout the 2000's. He was what Miguel Cabrera is now. He was an 8th round pick. He sustained that lineup for years because of that. Pujols from 2001-2011 had a 86.5 bWAR. Don't downplay what he was. You can put mediocre players around him and it makes them better. 10 out the 11 years he was in the top 5 of MVP voting. He never had OPS+ under 148. He was a one and million get and if the Cardinals didn't have him. They would not have had near the same success. He also made the playoffs 7 years and had an OPS over 1.000. Yea Im actually under estimating him. He is more 1 in a 10 million shot of getting a player like that in the 8th round.

 

[beckdawg]

Pujols was the best hitter in the majors and throughout the 2000's. He was what Miguel Cabrera is now. He was an 8th round pick. He sustained that lineup for years because of that. Pujols from 2001-2011 had a 86.5 bWAR. Don't downplay what he was. You can put mediocre players around him and it makes them better. 10 out the 11 years he was in the top 5 of MVP voting. He never had OPS+ under 148. He was a one and million get and if the Cardinals didn't have him. They would not have had near the same success. He also made the playoffs 7 years and had an OPS over 1.000. Yea Im actually under estimating him. He is more 1 in a 10 million shot of getting a player like that in the 8th round.

I'm not under estimating his value. I'm saying that the Cardinals won before he was there and they are winning after he's left. To act as though he were the only reason they won is naive. The cardinals are 3rd in the league in runs scored this year without him. They were 5th in 2012 also without him. He was a great player for him but he was far from the only player they had.

You could make the same comparison to McGwire and Rolen. The Cardinals find guys and plug them in but rarely do they go out and sign a top 5 FA.

 

[SilenceS]

I'm not under estimating his value. I'm saying that the Cardinals won before he was there and they are winning after he's left. To act as though he were the only reason they won is naive. The cardinals are 3rd in the league in runs scored this year without him. They were 5th in 2012 also without him. He was a great player for him but he was far from the only player they had.

You could make the same comparison to McGwire and Rolen. The Cardinals find guys and plug them in but rarely do they go out and sign a top 5 FA.

 

[SilenceS]

St. Louis Cardinals central division championships.

St. Louis Cardinals Central Division Titles
Year Record Manager
1996 88-74 Tony La Russa
2000 95-67 Tony La Russa
2002 97-65 Tony La Russa
2004 105-57 Tony La Russa
2005 100-62 Tony La Russa
2006 83-78 Tony La Russa
2009 91-71 Tony La Russa
2012 88-74 Mike Matheny

No team is only one player but to act like Pujols was not the main person in them winning. The Cardinals could have a 100 mid rounds picks that succeed and they will never produce and change games like Pujols. Put Pujols in his prime in the Cubs lineup today. It would make the whole lineup a ton better. Yes, they have had guys succeed but Pujols is the main reason they were who they were. He was the greatest hitter of the 2000's by a mile. His bWAR trumps hall of famers. You are being ridiculous and NAIVE on this subject. Im not even talking about the greatest pitching coach in history in Dave Duncan and one of the best coaches of all time in LaRussa. When the Cubs get them then talk until then it is useless. Like I said

 

[dabynsky]

St. Louis Cardinals central division championships.

St. Louis Cardinals Central Division Titles
Year Record Manager
1996 88-74 Tony La Russa
2000 95-67 Tony La Russa
2002 97-65 Tony La Russa
2004 105-57 Tony La Russa
2005 100-62 Tony La Russa
2006 83-78 Tony La Russa
2009 91-71 Tony La Russa
2012 88-74 Mike Matheny

No team is only one player but to act like Pujols was not the main person in them winning. The Cardinals could have a 100 mid rounds picks that succeed and they will never produce and change games like Pujols. Put Pujols in his prime in the Cubs lineup today. It would make the whole lineup a ton better. Yes, they have had guys succeed but Pujols is the main reason they were who they were. He was the greatest hitter of the 2000's by a mile. His bWAR trumps hall of famers. You are being ridiculous and NAIVE on this subject. Im not even talking about the greatest pitching coach in history in Dave Duncan and one of the best coaches of all time in LaRussa. When the Cubs get them then talk until then it is useless. Like I said

Right this is the part that needs to be mentioned more and more. The Cardinals are really fucking good at developing talent in the minors and the major league. There is a reason that the Cards have had the talent that they have had while spending less and drafting later than the Cubs consisting throughout the past decade. The other facet is how have the Cadinals maintained this without those three factors that you mentioned in this post. The answer was not long term deals to bring free agents to the Cardinals which has been the suggestion ad nasuem to speed up the process of improving the major league team here. The answer was smart short terms deals for need positions, shrewd trades and excellent internal player development. I like the chances of long term success of that approach than the strategy employed by the Los Angeles teams.