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Are you saying you think 1080ti will be even cheaper than I posted? I would def be cool with that.
Nvidia announces 20xx series, price gouging incoming
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Are you saying you think 1080ti will be even cheaper than I posted? I would def be cool with that.
Monsieur Tirets
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nvidia as doubled the price of their cards in just 2 generations. lol
70 series cards going for 5-6 hundred is ridiculous. i think im good with my 1080 for at least another gen.
70 series cards going for 5-6 hundred is ridiculous. i think im good with my 1080 for at least another gen.
czman
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The 20xx series is probably going to be a skip for me. Firstly, until games are developed specifically for ray tracing and not rasterization there just won't be much benefit. Games that use rasterization will still have to have multiple light sources to create scenes that are viewable. The real value of ray tracing is that games can be developed with fewer and different light sources. That is really only worth something until developers start developing specifically with ray tracing in mind, that means cards that can only perform rasterization probably won't be able to even play the game.
I suspect we will know how far off we are on that when the PS5 announces their hardware specs. If the PS5 is not going to support real time ray tracing the odds that it becomes mainstream and needed to play games in the next 7 years is real slim. Games designed for rasterization that are being ray traced are just not going to be that much better looking and the FPS is going to plummet. I see limited value there.
Secondly, the 7nm cards should be out in late 2019 or early 2020. By all accounts, that is where we will see significant improvements. 12nm to 7nm is a decent enough leap that we may see serious improvements, better than we have seen in the last 5-8 years. I plan on waiting to see if these cards are out next year. We have not seen that big a jump in die shrinkage in a while.
@ Ares, if you are a laptop gamer I would without a doubt wait for the 7nm cards. They should be much better for performance to heat and that is probably the biggest factor when it comes to gaming laptops. Also when 7NM drops for CPUs we may see integrated graphics that can compete with midrange laptop cards now.
I suspect we will know how far off we are on that when the PS5 announces their hardware specs. If the PS5 is not going to support real time ray tracing the odds that it becomes mainstream and needed to play games in the next 7 years is real slim. Games designed for rasterization that are being ray traced are just not going to be that much better looking and the FPS is going to plummet. I see limited value there.
Secondly, the 7nm cards should be out in late 2019 or early 2020. By all accounts, that is where we will see significant improvements. 12nm to 7nm is a decent enough leap that we may see serious improvements, better than we have seen in the last 5-8 years. I plan on waiting to see if these cards are out next year. We have not seen that big a jump in die shrinkage in a while.
@ Ares, if you are a laptop gamer I would without a doubt wait for the 7nm cards. They should be much better for performance to heat and that is probably the biggest factor when it comes to gaming laptops. Also when 7NM drops for CPUs we may see integrated graphics that can compete with midrange laptop cards now.
czman
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I don't think we will see that with this generation. NVIDIA forced their partners to buy their huge back stock of GPUs. The crypto currency bust left NVIDIA with 10 of thousands of GPUs. That is the reason these cards are so high priced. NVDIA was not selling anything because the people were waiting for the new cards to come out. It is pretty obvious the pricing is to make the old cards look like better deals so they can move some of that overstock they have. The vendors are being forced to pick up all of these cards (all the vendors). Since they will all have huge overstock and a sunk cost I assume they will try to keep the cards priced as high as possible for as long as possible.
The cards will drop and they have drop some. I don't think we see huge cuts as there is just too much sunk cost and the alternative new cards are out of many peoples price range.
I suspect a 1080Ti to get into the 500-550 range in the next 6 months. The 1080 might get to ~75 bucks less. A GTX 980 is still $550 on newegg.
czman
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I think the rumor is the 2060 will be a GTX not an RTX and will use the pascal architecture not the turning. I think it is going to be on par with the 1070 but it will only have 5GB of GDDR6. The 1070 has 8GB. If the prices are at all close I am not sure I would grab the 2060 just yet. I think the 1080TI may be a really good deal VMs. 11Gb would be really nice.
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My problem is I may not be able to wait long enough for them to become available.
My current machine is starting to worry me.... I think I've worked the fans too hard for too many years cause they struggle to keep the temps on the GPU under 80C when I play fucking Hearts of Iron 4 which has very little graphical computing to do, but maybe the devs are using GPU power for computations in the game engine.
Also, it might seem minor but my space bar works like 75% of the time lol
I just get the feeling I may only have 6-12 months left before this machine dies on me, unfortunately.
czman
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I guess when it comes to laptops there are different considerations. The first being, do you really need a laptop to play games on? Do you travel so much that the only way you can play a game is by having a laptop? If travel is the reason, there are different considerations, such as size and possibly durability.
Do you have a laptop because your place is small? Is it because you want to watch TV at the same time as gaming?
I would never suggest getting a gaming laptop and expecting it to last 5 years, unless you are playing games that have a very low requirement. The biggest issues with laptops is heat (besides water or dropping them or some other stupid shit people do). The problem with laptops is the heat they generate is very hard to pull away from the components and that heat causes extra wear and tear on the parts; ultimately meaning they tend to fail sooner and have a higher performance derogation curve.
That is not the only problem with laptops though. They tend to have a bunch of bloatware. They tend to have at least some cheap components that are likely to fail. Battery life tends to get very short after the first few years.
My suggestion is if you can, to get a cheap disposable laptop that will last 2-3 years for $250 bucks and get a gaming desktop do that. If that is not an option, the next thing in my opinion, is to spend less and keep it for a shorter period of time. Spend $650-$750 and keep it for ~ 3 years. Make sure you get a laptop with SSD, no hard drives. You want to limit the heat as much as possible. The idea that spending $1200+ on a laptop and expecting 5 years of good performance is just generally misplaced.
I have only heard bad things about MSI laptop bloatware but here is a quick example.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/510721/gf63-156-gaming-laptop-computer---black
I did no research on this laptop, it is just as an example. I would not get that laptop, but my guess is things that are similar will be on sale in the next couple of months for a decent price. Open box can be very good too. The holidays are coming up so I am sure some laptops will get some discounts and open boxes items are always far more prevalent at the end of the year.
You can make some comparisons here:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-770M.88995.0.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1050-Ti-Notebook.168400.0.html
Looking at about twice the performance. Probably more in modern games. That will last you 3 years easily. If you are gaming on a 770 now, I suspect you don't care that much about 1080p and high or ultra settings.
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I've explained this before.
I game from my couch in my theater room.
I built gaming desktops.... trust me I know the trade offs very very well.
This machine is going on 5 years.... if I can get 5 years per machine I am happy.... honestly even a desktop you look at rebuilding on a new board, new CPU, new GPU after 5 years so it isn't that different.
I have the money to buy what fits my niche.
I won't build a gaming desktop....it would have to sit in my office and both disrupt my WFH setup and I'm not sitting in there gaming... I own my whole house, I'm not a 14 year old hiding in a small room gaming.
I either game in my theater room upstairs or downstairs on my couch in front of my 60 inch TV.
czman
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I was not trying to state you were a 14 year old in your mothers basement. Plenty of people who make good money travel for work. Plenty of people who make good money and are single live in very high cost areas and pay extreme amounts for smaller places. There is no slight there, outside the one you manufactured, and I was unaware if you explained it before as it is not in this tread. I did read back over what you wrote in the tread to see if I had missed anything. This thread was all the information that I had.
Back to the topic at hand, and take the information or leave it. Heat in laptops has been known to cause microfractures over time becasue of thermal expansion. That is not the case in normal desktops as the heat can get away from the device far easier and takes less to dissipate over time. I have never heard of anyone delidding a CPU in their laptop. Maybe you are the one guy who does it.
Moving on, there are two opposing curves when it comes to laptops. The performance curve of the laptop and the performance needed to play games.
The performance of the laptop will drop over time. It won't be a linear drop. The laptop will perform similarly for a period of time and then it will start to drop in performance. The rate of decline will increase over use. This would be a descending curve. My guess is you aware of this know. You probably can't pinpoint the exact date the performance of the laptop started to get worse but my suspicion is you have seen the performance drop off increase over time.
On the opposite side we have the ascending cruse application demand. As we move forward games only get more demanding. If the goal is to play newer games the opposing curves will intersect at some point. From that point on there will only be pain.
The most natural solution to this is to avoid all time after the intersection. You can't get away from it microfracturing in gaming laptop that is heavily used. Component desegregation is a real thing in laptops that does not exist in normal desk top builds. Let's say you want to spend $1500 over ~5 years. The better choice is to spend $900 over ~3 years. You will get slightly less performance now and a hell of a lot more in 3 years when you are getting a new laptop.
I picked a ~$700 dollar laptop because I was assuming about a ~$1200 purchase. I am sure you can figure out what you want to spend divide by 5 and then multiple by 3. You will be far happier in the long run with this method. It doesn't matter if you get at $3000 laptop now that has a 1080 in it. You cannot get around the microfracturing that will happen. The 1080 has a TPD about 100 watts higher than 1050ti. That 100 watts equals more heat and that heat will cause problems with the graphics card and the rest of the components. These are laws of nature.
As a side note, ~14 years ago in the first house I bought I was single and had a big screen (42".......kind of funny now) and I did not want to play in a smaller room. I ended up attaching a PC to the TV. I thought I like it, but I could not watch sports while gaming. If you don't really care about watching TV you can always do that. When I did not like that, I moved to a rolling desk. I didn't really like the solution all that much. It might be better for you in your place. There are a lot of mobile solutions out there for desktops. Also sending an image to a TV without a direct connection to a desktop has never really been easier. Additionally with swinging wall mounts having a monitor on a swinging wall mount might even be an option.
What I am driving at is, a desktop does not have to sit in your office and games don't have to be played in the office. It can sit almost anywhere in the house and be seen in a different room. It can sit in your theater room. There are so many good solutions out there, you should really try not to pigeonhole yourself into a 5 year laptop. It is probably the most painful solution over the long haul. If money is not a consideration and you are going to get a laptop, as the other solutions are just not viable or to much effort, you should really look at ~3 years of life.
Like I said at the beginning, you can take or leave the information. It is good information that is accurate. I hope you get the best solution that lasts as long as reasonably can be expected.
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Ares is well aware.
AussieBear
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i havent looked at gpu prices in aus for awhile, maybe since last xmas, i just noticed shit came back to reality..
rx 580 from 200-350+ AUD.. used-new... thats a bigly drop from the 700-1000 aud last year iirc.
rx 580 from 200-350+ AUD.. used-new... thats a bigly drop from the 700-1000 aud last year iirc.
fatbeard
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1080 Ti's inching their way down to $600. Sub $500 is definitely possible when 20xx comes out.
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its true, he has explained this like 6 times
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ima keep an eye on the used market. If they get down around 350 this year, I will be ecstatic. 1080ti is a really good card.
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The problem with the RTX shit tho, is that its not like its gon go away after the 20xx gen. And nvidia is not going to drop prices either. Its some ludicrous bullshit now that mid level cards are going to be in the $600 range. Just when PC gaming was moving more toward mainstream and nvidia gon kill it.
amd better get their shit together with gpus.
amd better get their shit together with gpus.
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Lol I feel like a dick now, but it does get tiring explaining my niche use case and then having people explain gaming desktops to me like I'm a college kid who hasn't been building desktops for 15+ years.
I built my first machine when I was 13.
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That's how I feel when I tell someone else why I use a non-gaming build that they cannot wrap their head around just because I still can game comfortably on the *wrong* hardware.
Boys and their toys, amirite?
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If there is one thing I usually get from convo with you, it is to pick a tool/build that fits your use case best.
People just get blinders on with gaming.... I know because I've had them.... gaming desktop rig built with the best available board/CPU/GPU/memory is the only real machine for gaming unless you buy a console, right?
I mean if you're going to game your rig must be able to play every game on ultra settings and naturally the rig produces enough heat to melt a glacier, right?
So having anything less for gaming is nonsense, right?
And a gaming laptop? Cmon man it won't be powerful enough and it will just melt from the inside out, they haven't figured out how to put power into laptops, right?
The only solution is to build a big fat gaming rig with dual monitors and flashing LEDs on the case with liquid cooling and a portable AC unit blowing on it, otherwise you've failed as a gamer, right?
And to all that I will say I've been buying and using gaming laptops for almost a decade now.
I've had 2 machines, the 1st one lasted me 5 years, and this one has lasted me 5 years, and I've never found my gaming experience wanting.
But wtf do I know, right?
Monsieur Tirets
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And at this point Ray tracing = 30fps at 1080p with a $1200 card. In the whole 3 games that use it.
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Monsieur Tirets
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Since you own the whole house couldn't you put the desktop wherever you want?
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