Official ??? BABY BOOMER ??? thread

[Burque]

Some... yes... if we're using generalizations, yeah Gen Z will run circles around Boomers on tech.

However, the current top of tech leadership in the U.S. is made up of Gen X and Boomers, with Millennials like myself climbing the ladder.

Gen Z simply isn't old enough to own tech yet.... they have a small bit of that pie chart, but it is still mostly Millennials, Gen X, and Boomers.

I think currently the boomers still own a lot. But they aren't the innovation anymore.

 

[LordKOTL]

That's funny, yeah they are way too dependent on tech, I don't expect to see that trend reverse. Can't wait to see what tech my grand kids stare at 24/7.

Just remember the things around them change, they do not, they are people just like you and your parents, grand parents...

Same could be said for all generations, though--about the tech. My grandpa was completely fascist about not having the radio on in the car when my dad/aunt were growing up so they could spend time as a family. Sound familiar to the anti-screen-time brigade of today?

What about that parable almost everyone here has heard from our math teachers? "In real life you won't always have a calculator in your pocket?" We do now with cellphones. I'm willing to wager gold bullion to Turkish lira that right around the time the slide rule was invented some technophobe math teacher told their students, "In real life you wan't always have that slide rule with you."

You're 100% correct that the core of humanity's behaviors won't change with respect to generations...but IMHO tech falls under that. The tech has changed over the course of the years but in general the younger generation of the time will be the ones to adopt and utilize new tech (for good or bad) while the older generations tend to eschew it because, "They got along fine without it."

Another fine point is ubiquity of technology with respect to people's reliance on it. Consider this: At one point telephones were more of a novelty and not a part of critical infrastructure. At some point that changed to the point where just about every household had one. At that point, that generation became dependent on that tech--the older generations at that given point in time might have said, "Too dependent." But, at that point the phone lines became critical infrastructure upon which businesses, the economy, and even emergency services started to depend on, and at that point of ubiquity there was a real, societal need to keep that up and running the to point of minimizing the chance that "It would go down." Same with the internet--how much business relies on it?

On that point, there's the other factor to consider: If that tech became available when any of us were of the age when you were willing and able to adopt said tech, you're only lying to yourself if you think you (royal You in this case) wouldn't be all over that like Oprah on a baked ham.

 

[Ares]

@LordKOTL I would make the point that while aversion to newer tech by the old gen vs adoption by the new gen is certainly a recurring problem.

Modern tech over just the last 30 years has evolved to a level where the old tech vs new tech is gone... now it is oldest vs old vs newish vs new vs cutting edge.

In your example... say the radio as a novelty vs becoming ingrained, and then the television as a novelty vs becoming ingrained... and even the telephone.

This stuff wasn't ultra complicated for the users, it was mostly a hurdle of old averse to new.... not so much that old found new to be beyond their skillset or intelligence level.

Jump to the PC era of the 1990s... when having a computer was becoming like the telephone.... everyone had ONE, but unlike the telephone no one in the house knew how to use it, maintain it, fix it, etc.

Fun story, when I was maybe 9-10 years old my family had a Gateway computer (oooooh ahhhhh, a Gateway!) and one day it froze and I couldn't even reboot it. I tried the power button, which used to initiate shutdown, but it wouldn't do that either. So I told my Mom and Dad, and my Dad looked at it and had no idea what to do. So the computer sat, powered, but frozen for nearly a year... a full year... until one day I took it upon myself to figure out how to solve the problem. Turns out that smaller button near the power button forces a reset so it kills power and reboots. I figured after so long with it broken no one would really care what happened if I started hitting buttons. It rebooted and I was a hero.. a savant... I now knew how I could safely power reset a PC.

But compare learning how to dial a telephone, to using a computer.... it isn't even close, and it just continued on that path.

At 13 my Uncle helped me build my first gaming PC from scratch, and from then on I tinkered with the hardware and software... I learned how to build them on my own, install OS (or re-install), add memory/storage, replace a CPU (wher da thermal paste go?), install a water cooling system, and all kinds of other bits along the way.

But unlike radios, or televisions, or telephones, we moved into an era where the majority of ordinary people could not become competent in using/maintaining the technology.

As the decades wore on, it became two questions...

1. Are you too old/averse to new tech to bother with it?

2. Are you intelligent enough to learn how to use new tech?

I know 60 year olds who enjoy learning and using new tech very much.

I have a sister who is in her early thirties and if it requires more than 2 button presses, she hands it to me or her husband to deal with lol

 

[Burque]

@LordKOTL I would make the point that while aversion to newer tech by the old gen vs adoption by the new gen is certainly a recurring problem.

Modern tech over just the last 30 years has evolved to a level where the old tech vs new tech is gone... now it is oldest vs old vs newish vs new vs cutting edge.

In your example... say the radio as a novelty vs becoming ingrained, and then the television as a novelty vs becoming ingrained... and even the telephone.

This stuff wasn't ultra complicated for the users, it was mostly a hurdle of old averse to new.... not so much that old found new to be beyond their skillset or intelligence level.

Jump to the PC era of the 1990s... when having a computer was becoming like the telephone.... everyone had ONE, but unlike the telephone no one in the house knew how to use it, maintain it, fix it, etc.

Fun story, when I was maybe 9-10 years old my family had a Gateway computer (oooooh ahhhhh, a Gateway!) and one day it froze and I couldn't even reboot it. I tried the power button, which used to initiate shutdown, but it wouldn't do that either. So I told my Mom and Dad, and my Dad looked at it and had no idea what to do. So the computer sat, powered, but frozen for nearly a year... a full year... until one day I took it upon myself to figure out how to solve the problem. Turns out that smaller button near the power button forces a reset so it kills power and reboots. I figured after so long with it broken no one would really care what happened if I started hitting buttons. It rebooted and I was a hero.. a savant... I now knew how I could safely power reset a PC.

But compare learning how to dial a telephone, to using a computer.... it isn't even close, and it just continued on that path.

At 13 my Uncle helped me build my first gaming PC from scratch, and from then on I tinkered with the hardware and software... I learned how to build them on my own, install OS (or re-install), add memory/storage, replace a CPU (wher da thermal paste go?), install a water cooling system, and all kinds of other bits along the way.

But unlike radios, or televisions, or telephones, we moved into an era where the majority of ordinary people could not become competent in using/maintaining the technology.

As the decades wore on, it became two questions...

1. Are you too old/averse to new tech to bother with it?

2. Are you intelligent enough to learn how to use new tech?

I know 60 year olds who enjoy learning and using new tech very much.

I have a sister who is in her early thirties and if it requires more than 2 button presses, she hands it to me or her husband to deal with lol

Conversely though, tech is getting easier.

I remember being the go to person that had to fix friends and families computers in the late nineties and early 00's. People didn't understand even the basics, and quite honestly at that time there was a lot of tedious bits that you kinda had to know to be able to jump from "it's totally broken" to "wow it works great!"

Today I think things are much much easier to navigate and get working. Also it seems like if something beaks it's way faster to reinstall and start over than it used to be.

 

[LordKOTL]

@LordKOTL I would make the point that while aversion to newer tech by the old gen vs adoption by the new gen is certainly a recurring problem.

Modern tech over just the last 30 years has evolved to a level where the old tech vs new tech is gone... now it is oldest vs old vs newish vs new vs cutting edge.

In your example... say the radio as a novelty vs becoming ingrained, and then the television as a novelty vs becoming ingrained... and even the telephone.

This stuff wasn't ultra complicated for the users, it was mostly a hurdle of old averse to new.... not so much that old found new to be beyond their skillset or intelligence level.

Jump to the PC era of the 1990s... when having a computer was becoming like the telephone.... everyone had ONE, but unlike the telephone no one in the house knew how to use it, maintain it, fix it, etc.

Fun story, when I was maybe 9-10 years old my family had a Gateway computer (oooooh ahhhhh, a Gateway!) and one day it froze and I couldn't even reboot it. I tried the power button, which used to initiate shutdown, but it wouldn't do that either. So I told my Mom and Dad, and my Dad looked at it and had no idea what to do. So the computer sat, powered, but frozen for nearly a year... a full year... until one day I took it upon myself to figure out how to solve the problem. Turns out that smaller button near the power button forces a reset so it kills power and reboots. I figured after so long with it broken no one would really care what happened if I started hitting buttons. It rebooted and I was a hero.. a savant... I now knew how I could safely power reset a PC.

But compare learning how to dial a telephone, to using a computer.... it isn't even close, and it just continued on that path.

At 13 my Uncle helped me build my first gaming PC from scratch, and from then on I tinkered with the hardware and software... I learned how to build them on my own, install OS (or re-install), add memory/storage, replace a CPU (wher da thermal paste go?), install a water cooling system, and all kinds of other bits along the way.

But unlike radios, or televisions, or telephones, we moved into an era where the majority of ordinary people could not become competent in using/maintaining the technology.

As the decades wore on, it became two questions...

1. Are you too old/averse to new tech to bother with it?

2. Are you intelligent enough to learn how to use new tech?

I know 60 year olds who enjoy learning and using new tech very much.

I have a sister who is in her early thirties and if it requires more than 2 button presses, she hands it to me or her husband to deal with lol

Everything in this thread is a generalization--after all, there are non-cynical Gen-X'ers out there. Thankfully, I haven't had the displeasure of meeting them.

But I disagree with your complications of tech--one thing you may be missing is that there are parts of that tech that have, since the tech's introduction, become automated.

Do you remember when you had to futz around with a TV's vertical hold knob? What about futzing with the rabbit ears for a clear picture? Don't have to do it anymore.

I'm going way back, but have you ever tried to use a cat's whisker radio? Compare that with radios that will automatically tune themselves.

Do you remember when cruise control wasn't a thing? What about when automatic transmissions were bulky, expensive, and sucked through gas so bad that if you wanted to drive--you pretty much *had* to learn how to drive stick? Now we got cars that will automatically parallel park.

What about VCR's and futzing around with the tracking? Netflix & the like made that a ting of the past.

What about needed to know how to focus manually, set the exposure manually, and know something about photography in order to get a passable snapshot of your family vacation? Now you got cellphones with their computational cameras that will do everything for the aspiring photographer other than compose the image properly.

Hell, one can compare the ease of how to get a song you like *now*, vs. waiting for hours with your ghetto blaster paused while the record is on just to record a song off the radio.

A lot of that stuff took some learning to get to use it well--even if, in the case of the TV, it was your parents telling you to futz with the rabbit ears so *they* could watch TV. You got good at it out of necessity.

IMHO the same is today, and necessity and want (which I agree with you on) is the driving force of learning it in the 1st place--and IMHO a lot of learning that new tech for young people is that even though tech may streamline existing processes...it can also make the old way of doing things better and easier. Older people--comfortable in what they already know, tend to want to stick with what they know. Younger people, either coming from ignorance or looking for a better less traditional way tend to adopt, but in the end they get good at it because of necessity.

IMHO the more they change the more they stay the same. In the same vein I don't inherently hate millennials or Gen-Z'rs any more than I hate Baby Boomers or my fellow Gen-X'ers. I prefer to look at people at the individual level.

 

[Burque]

Everything in this thread is a generalization--after all, there are non-cynical Gen-X'ers out there. Thankfully, I haven't had the displeasure of meeting them.

But I disagree with your complications of tech--one thing you may be missing is that there are parts of that tech that have, since the tech's introduction, become automated.

Do you remember when you had to futz around with a TV's vertical hold knob? What about futzing with the rabbit ears for a clear picture? Don't have to do it anymore.

I'm going way back, but have you ever tried to use a cat's whisker radio? Compare that with radios that will automatically tune themselves.

Do you remember when cruise control wasn't a thing? What about when automatic transmissions were bulky, expensive, and sucked through gas so bad that if you wanted to drive--you pretty much *had* to learn how to drive stick? Now we got cars that will automatically parallel park.

What about VCR's and futzing around with the tracking? Netflix & the like made that a ting of the past.

What about needed to know how to focus manually, set the exposure manually, and know something about photography in order to get a passable snapshot of your family vacation? Now you got cellphones with their computational cameras that will do everything for the aspiring photographer other than compose the image properly.

Hell, one can compare the ease of how to get a song you like *now*, vs. waiting for hours with your ghetto blaster paused while the record is on just to record a song off the radio.

A lot of that stuff took some learning to get to use it well--even if, in the case of the TV, it was your parents telling you to futz with the rabbit ears so *they* could watch TV. You got good at it out of necessity.

IMHO the same is today, and necessity and want (which I agree with you on) is the driving force of learning it in the 1st place--and IMHO a lot of learning that new tech for young people is that even though tech may streamline existing processes...it can also make the old way of doing things better and easier. Older people--comfortable in what they already know, tend to want to stick with what they know. Younger people, either coming from ignorance or looking for a better less traditional way tend to adopt, but in the end they get good at it because of necessity.

IMHO the more they change the more they stay the same. In the same vein I don't inherently hate millennials or Gen-Z'rs any more than I hate Baby Boomers or my fellow Gen-X'ers. I prefer to look at people at the individual level.

I would add to this that sometimes people choose to do the harder thing because it is familiar to them.

It happened all the time in a business I used to work with that had non tech savvy owners. We did so many inefficient things that it was ridiculous. Small tweaks made everyone's life easier even though they had to learn something slightly different than they were comfortable with at first.

 

[LordKOTL]

I would add to this that sometimes people choose to do the harder thing because it is familiar to them.

It happened all the time in a business I used to work with that had non tech savvy owners. We did so many inefficient things that it was ridiculous. Small tweaks made everyone's life easier even though they had to learn something slightly different than they were comfortable with at first.

Don't even get me started on that in the workplace...

 

[Ares]

Everything in this thread is a generalization--after all, there are non-cynical Gen-X'ers out there. Thankfully, I haven't had the displeasure of meeting them.

But I disagree with your complications of tech--one thing you may be missing is that there are parts of that tech that have, since the tech's introduction, become automated.

Do you remember when you had to futz around with a TV's vertical hold knob? What about futzing with the rabbit ears for a clear picture? Don't have to do it anymore.

I'm going way back, but have you ever tried to use a cat's whisker radio? Compare that with radios that will automatically tune themselves.

Do you remember when cruise control wasn't a thing? What about when automatic transmissions were bulky, expensive, and sucked through gas so bad that if you wanted to drive--you pretty much *had* to learn how to drive stick? Now we got cars that will automatically parallel park.

What about VCR's and futzing around with the tracking? Netflix & the like made that a ting of the past.

What about needed to know how to focus manually, set the exposure manually, and know something about photography in order to get a passable snapshot of your family vacation? Now you got cellphones with their computational cameras that will do everything for the aspiring photographer other than compose the image properly.

Hell, one can compare the ease of how to get a song you like *now*, vs. waiting for hours with your ghetto blaster paused while the record is on just to record a song off the radio.

A lot of that stuff took some learning to get to use it well--even if, in the case of the TV, it was your parents telling you to futz with the rabbit ears so *they* could watch TV. You got good at it out of necessity.

IMHO the same is today, and necessity and want (which I agree with you on) is the driving force of learning it in the 1st place--and IMHO a lot of learning that new tech for young people is that even though tech may streamline existing processes...it can also make the old way of doing things better and easier. Older people--comfortable in what they already know, tend to want to stick with what they know. Younger people, either coming from ignorance or looking for a better less traditional way tend to adopt, but in the end they get good at it because of necessity.

IMHO the more they change the more they stay the same. In the same vein I don't inherently hate millennials or Gen-Z'rs any more than I hate Baby Boomers or my fellow Gen-X'ers. I prefer to look at people at the individual level.

I disagree, and here's why.

What you describe is learning how to work with and then automate simple/mechanical processes.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about turning a knob until you get what you want.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about adjusting rabbit ear antenna until you get what you want.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about driving a stick shift.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about photography, though you dip into art vs science there.

And anything you bring up with regards to like finding a song you liked... that isn't really a technology difference, that is an information availability difference which has changed because of technology. I know what you mean, the technology makes things easier, but this is kinda off the path for the discussion we're having.

Using a computer is fundamentally more complicated than turning a knob on a TV or Radio until you get what you want.

Yes we've made strides in user friendliness, but at the same time the programming behind the scenes also got more complicated.

I can, if I choose, learn how to build and repair a car engine... it isn't something I know, but I could absolutely learn it if I decided to do so.

A mechanic, in many cases, is not intelligent enough to simply choose to learn how to write and maintain code for a full-stack application hosted in the cloud or on premise.

A person who owns a computer, in most cases is not intelligent enough to simply choose to learn enough about their PC to write and maintain code.... tinker with their Operating System.

I am comparing the early 20th century when "cutting edge" tech often was stuff you could figure out how to master and actually built/tinker with on your own, even without any special schooling or access to special resources.

Now cutting edge today would be AI hosted in the cloud that say is powering a self-driving car.... are you really saying that cutting edge is just as easy for Joe Schmoe to pickup and learn/maintain/tinker with?

There is a giant gap that has opened up between the user of tech and the tech.... I know people can use the tech, that has not changed, I get that.

But people and their understanding/relationship with the tech they own and use today, is not the same as it was even 20 years ago.

Can you crack open you smart phone and fix it? No

Can you crack open your laptop and fix it? No

Can you crack open the code of an OPEN SOURCE application and fix/maintain it? No, even when they give you the code.

Could the average owner of a VCR in the 1980s crack it open and fix/maintain it? Maybe, at least in some cases.

Could the average homeowner crack open and fix their home appliances in the 1960s/70s? Yes

Could the average car owner in the 1930s crack open their car and fix/maintain it? Yes

Could the average machine gunner in WWI crack open and fix/maintain their gun? Yes

Mechanical technology has always been far closer to the user than Information technology.

It really isn't the same, not to me at least.

It does still exhibit trends we've seen before, but I do think it is fundamentally different from cutting edge tech from even 20-30 years ago.

Hammers and screws are easier than Soldering irons and thermal paste are easier than Machine Language programming which (IMO) is easier than Object Oriented Programming or Database Programming, which is easier (IMO) than writing a full stack AI in the cloud.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

I disagree, and here's why.

What you describe is learning how to work with and then automate simple/mechanical processes.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about turning a knob until you get what you want.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about adjusting rabbit ear antenna until you get what you want.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about driving a stick shift.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about photography, though you dip into art vs science there.

And anything you bring up with regards to like finding a song you liked... that isn't really a technology difference, that is an information availability difference which has changed because of technology. I know what you mean, the technology makes things easier, but this is kinda off the path for the discussion we're having.

Using a computer is fundamentally more complicated than turning a knob on a TV or Radio until you get what you want.

Yes we've made strides in user friendliness, but at the same time the programming behind the scenes also got more complicated.

I can, if I choose, learn how to build and repair a car engine... it isn't something I know, but I could absolutely learn it if I decided to do so.

A mechanic, in many cases, is not intelligent enough to simply choose to learn how to write and maintain code for a full-stack application hosted in the cloud or on premise.

A person who owns a computer, in most cases is not intelligent enough to simply choose to learn enough about their PC to write and maintain code.... tinker with their Operating System.

I am comparing the early 20th century when "cutting edge" tech often was stuff you could figure out how to master and actually built/tinker with on your own, even without any special schooling or access to special resources.

Now cutting edge today would be AI hosted in the cloud that say is powering a self-driving car.... are you really saying that cutting edge is just as easy for Joe Schmoe to pickup and learn/maintain/tinker with?

There is a giant gap that has opened up between the user of tech and the tech.... I know people can use the tech, that has not changed, I get that.

But people and their understanding/relationship with the tech they own and use today, is not the same as it was even 20 years ago.

Can you crack open you smart phone and fix it? No

Can you crack open your laptop and fix it? No

Can you crack open the code of an OPEN SOURCE application and fix/maintain it? No, even when they give you the code.

Could the average owner of a VCR in the 1980s crack it open and fix/maintain it? Maybe, at least in some cases.

Could the average homeowner crack open and fix their home appliances in the 1960s/70s? Yes

Could the average car owner in the 1930s crack open their car and fix/maintain it? Yes

Could the average machine gunner in WWI crack open and fix/maintain their gun? Yes

Mechanical technology has always been far closer to the user than Information technology.

It really isn't the same, not to me at least.

It does still exhibit trends we've seen before, but I do think it is fundamentally different from cutting edge tech from even 20-30 years ago.

Hammers and screws are easier than Soldering irons and thermal paste are easier than Machine Language programming which (IMO) is easier than Object Oriented Programming or Database Programming, which is easier (IMO) than writing a full stack AI in the cloud.

Can you ever just wrap it up and put a sock in it so people don't take a hike halveway through reading your posts?

Jeebus my guy!!!

:-v

 

[Ares]

Can you ever just wrap it up and put a sock in it so people don't take a hike halveway through reading your posts?

Jeebus my guy!!!

:-v

Can Urblock stop petting his wife?

 

[Burque]

I disagree, and here's why.

What you describe is learning how to work with and then automate simple/mechanical processes.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about turning a knob until you get what you want.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about adjusting rabbit ear antenna until you get what you want.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about driving a stick shift.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about photography, though you dip into art vs science there.

And anything you bring up with regards to like finding a song you liked... that isn't really a technology difference, that is an information availability difference which has changed because of technology. I know what you mean, the technology makes things easier, but this is kinda off the path for the discussion we're having.

Using a computer is fundamentally more complicated than turning a knob on a TV or Radio until you get what you want.

Yes we've made strides in user friendliness, but at the same time the programming behind the scenes also got more complicated.

I can, if I choose, learn how to build and repair a car engine... it isn't something I know, but I could absolutely learn it if I decided to do so.

A mechanic, in many cases, is not intelligent enough to simply choose to learn how to write and maintain code for a full-stack application hosted in the cloud or on premise.

A person who owns a computer, in most cases is not intelligent enough to simply choose to learn enough about their PC to write and maintain code.... tinker with their Operating System.

I am comparing the early 20th century when "cutting edge" tech often was stuff you could figure out how to master and actually built/tinker with on your own, even without any special schooling or access to special resources.

Now cutting edge today would be AI hosted in the cloud that say is powering a self-driving car.... are you really saying that cutting edge is just as easy for Joe Schmoe to pickup and learn/maintain/tinker with?

There is a giant gap that has opened up between the user of tech and the tech.... I know people can use the tech, that has not changed, I get that.

But people and their understanding/relationship with the tech they own and use today, is not the same as it was even 20 years ago.

Can you crack open you smart phone and fix it? No

Can you crack open your laptop and fix it? No

Can you crack open the code of an OPEN SOURCE application and fix/maintain it? No, even when they give you the code.

Could the average owner of a VCR in the 1980s crack it open and fix/maintain it? Maybe, at least in some cases.

Could the average homeowner crack open and fix their home appliances in the 1960s/70s? Yes

Could the average car owner in the 1930s crack open their car and fix/maintain it? Yes

Could the average machine gunner in WWI crack open and fix/maintain their gun? Yes

Mechanical technology has always been far closer to the user than Information technology.

It really isn't the same, not to me at least.

It does still exhibit trends we've seen before, but I do think it is fundamentally different from cutting edge tech from even 20-30 years ago.

Hammers and screws are easier than Soldering irons and thermal paste are easier than Machine Language programming which (IMO) is easier than Object Oriented Programming or Database Programming, which is easier (IMO) than writing a full stack AI in the cloud.

Tl;Dr Ares is smart and mechanics are stupid.

 

[LordKOTL]

I disagree, and here's why.

What you describe is learning how to work with and then automate simple/mechanical processes.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about turning a knob until you get what you want.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about adjusting rabbit ear antenna until you get what you want.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about driving a stick shift.

There's nothing fundamentally complicated about photography, though you dip into art vs science there.

And anything you bring up with regards to like finding a song you liked... that isn't really a technology difference, that is an information availability difference which has changed because of technology. I know what you mean, the technology makes things easier, but this is kinda off the path for the discussion we're having.

Using a computer is fundamentally more complicated than turning a knob on a TV or Radio until you get what you want.

Yes we've made strides in user friendliness, but at the same time the programming behind the scenes also got more complicated.

I can, if I choose, learn how to build and repair a car engine... it isn't something I know, but I could absolutely learn it if I decided to do so.

A mechanic, in many cases, is not intelligent enough to simply choose to learn how to write and maintain code for a full-stack application hosted in the cloud or on premise.

A person who owns a computer, in most cases is not intelligent enough to simply choose to learn enough about their PC to write and maintain code.... tinker with their Operating System.

I am comparing the early 20th century when "cutting edge" tech often was stuff you could figure out how to master and actually built/tinker with on your own, even without any special schooling or access to special resources.

Now cutting edge today would be AI hosted in the cloud that say is powering a self-driving car.... are you really saying that cutting edge is just as easy for Joe Schmoe to pickup and learn/maintain/tinker with?

There is a giant gap that has opened up between the user of tech and the tech.... I know people can use the tech, that has not changed, I get that.

But people and their understanding/relationship with the tech they own and use today, is not the same as it was even 20 years ago.

Can you crack open you smart phone and fix it? No

Can you crack open your laptop and fix it? No

Can you crack open the code of an OPEN SOURCE application and fix/maintain it? No, even when they give you the code.

Could the average owner of a VCR in the 1980s crack it open and fix/maintain it? Maybe, at least in some cases.

Could the average homeowner crack open and fix their home appliances in the 1960s/70s? Yes

Could the average car owner in the 1930s crack open their car and fix/maintain it? Yes

Could the average machine gunner in WWI crack open and fix/maintain their gun? Yes

Mechanical technology has always been far closer to the user than Information technology.

It really isn't the same, not to me at least.

It does still exhibit trends we've seen before, but I do think it is fundamentally different from cutting edge tech from even 20-30 years ago.

Hammers and screws are easier than Soldering irons and thermal paste are easier than Machine Language programming which (IMO) is easier than Object Oriented Programming or Database Programming, which is easier (IMO) than writing a full stack AI in the cloud.

I think your comparisons are not really balanced.

Can you crack open your laptop and fix it? Yes. I've done it. Can your average Joe or Jane do it? Probably not--and it's easier to just buy a new one. This goes especially for the newer ones that are glued together as opposed to screwed together--and that's not an aspect of new vs. old technology since I think glue predates the screw--that's an aspect of modern consumer/manufacturing trends vs. old ones.

Could someone in the 1930's crack open their car and fix it. Sure. Did your average Joe do it? No. In spite of all that good old days nostalgia crammed down our throats...not everyone fixed their own cars back then; the ones that couldn't be bothered with fixing their own cars took them to the mechanic. How is that different that taking your laptop to the geek squad? Replacing a DIMM? Maybe like replacing a starter. Figuring out the right latency times in the BIOS? Probably like figuring out the right valve lash. You either figure it out and develop the right feel for it, or you take it to someone that does.

The major difference I see between back then and now is the disposibility of products which inhibits tinkering. We're all supposed to buy new stuff rather than fix old stuff. But, IMHO, when it comes down to it bleeding edge of tech is bleeding edge of tech. I remember hearing stories of mechanics who were loathe to work on floating caliper disc brakes as opposed to drum brakes when they 1st came out...in spite of them being a hell of a lot easier to work on.

But seriously dude...balance your comparisons. If you're going to compare bleeding-edge technology of yesteryear to bleeding edge today, don't do hammers and solder to programming AI. Hammers and solder is like programming an NFC tag so that anyone coming into your house can just tap to connect to your guest WiFi. Programming an AI is more like building your own mechanical clock and trying to get it to run accurately.

And if you don't believe me, watch some kids nowadays try to manipulate older technology. Watch some kid who knows nothing other then driving their mommy's Toyota Prius try to drive a stickshift. It's *exactly* like watching grandma try to operate a smartphone.

 

[Ares]

I think your comparisons are not really balanced.

Can you crack open your laptop and fix it? Yes. I've done it. Can your average Joe or Jane do it? Probably not--and it's easier to just buy a new one. This goes especially for the newer ones that are glued together as opposed to screwed together--and that's not an aspect of new vs. old technology since I think glue predates the screw--that's an aspect of modern consumer/manufacturing trends vs. old ones.

Could someone in the 1930's crack open their car and fix it. Sure. Did your average Joe do it? No. In spite of all that good old days nostalgia crammed down our throats...not everyone fixed their own cars back then; the ones that couldn't be bothered with fixing their own cars took them to the mechanic. How is that different that taking your laptop to the geek squad? Replacing a DIMM? Maybe like replacing a starter. Figuring out the right latency times in the BIOS? Probably like figuring out the right valve lash. You either figure it out and develop the right feel for it, or you take it to someone that does.

The major difference I see between back then and now is the disposibility of products which inhibits tinkering. We're all supposed to buy new stuff rather than fix old stuff. But, IMHO, when it comes down to it bleeding edge of tech is bleeding edge of tech. I remember hearing stories of mechanics who were loathe to work on floating caliper disc brakes as opposed to drum brakes when they 1st came out...in spite of them being a hell of a lot easier to work on.

But seriously dude...balance your comparisons. If you're going to compare bleeding-edge technology of yesteryear to bleeding edge today, don't do hammers and solder to programming AI. Hammers and solder is like programming an NFC tag so that anyone coming into your house can just tap to connect to your guest WiFi. Programming an AI is more like building your own mechanical clock and trying to get it to run accurately.

And if you don't believe me, watch some kids nowadays try to manipulate older technology. Watch some kid who knows nothing other then driving their mommy's Toyota Prius try to drive a stickshift. It's *exactly* like watching grandma try to operate a smartphone.

My comparisons are fine, you seem to keep trying to shift this conversation.

Mechanical tech was bleeding edge at one point, and a far larger portion of the average user could learn/maintain the tech and even build it themselves compared to modern bleeding edge cloud computing.

Way more average Joes could fix their car or even build one, compared to cracking open a Laptop and fixing it.

You cannot crack open a Laptop and fix it unless you have a varied skillset including hardware, soldering, and software, OS, programming.

That is far different from what it takes to learn how mechanical parts fit together.

It isn't the same, no matter how much you try to equate it.

I am not denying age/phasing happens, you seem to think I am denying that happens and I am not.

However, I know for a fact that the average Joe today has ZERO chance at cracking open a Laptop or a Tablet or a Smart Phone and fixing it or even understanding the basics of how an Operating System is designed/runs for these devices.

Mechanical tech is different, you can see how it works... you can unscrew it and take it apart to learn about it... it takes ZERO intelligence to unscrew stuff.

Unscrewing code in an OS is made to be impossible without tools you don't have.

Understanding how applications are built and the modules they use, requires you to understand Computer Science principles and Programming languages which ZERO average Joes understand.

Bleeding edge flight in the early 1900s was still mechanical... people with simple mechanical knowledge could figure out how to build planes once the Wright Brothers and others set the example.

Bleeding edge Cloud technology in the modern day is difficult to fully understand as a user, when you have Bachelors in Computer Science and work in the field.... IT ISN'T THE SAME.