Official Breaking Bad Thread (Vol. Better Call Saul S5)

zack54attack

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@airtime143 @Granada @Angry Boomer

Yeah, the first scene is post breaking bad immediately but before "Gene" at Cinnabon. Bet we get more on that soon....

As for the safe, that was confusing. But I believe what @Angry Boomer said is right. . Gus set that all up by paying off the meth heads, switching the safe to give Nacho's location away. Mike is protecting Nacho's dad, that's why he looks at the ID and takes it out.

The twins show up at the same time as Juan Bolsa's men too. Cartel, Gus, and the Salamancas.... none of them trust eachother which means things are going to heat up.

The Heel turn by Kim, incredible.
 

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Spoilers...finally watched it.










Watched it and it was awesome.

On the couple... Lalo is a very smart, very evil dude.

Like all the bosses he takes care of locals...but this guy was specifically farmed to be his corpse, and it was planned well in advance.

He asked the wife "how are his teeth?"
Wife thanks him for setting him up with the dentist.
.... Lalo had his dentist make the doubles teeth pass for lalo- when fring is looking at the evidence, there is mention of "dental records matching".

That stopper that fell out in the beginning was like Boomer said a bottle stopper from a shared bottle (the same liquor fring used to poison don eladio in BB)... and it was the 1 single item Kim took with her when she quit her law firm. She went back for it.

The cleanup is post breaking bad, so the stopper being left behind and dropped in the gutter is a poetic way of showing Saul's life fell in the gutter.


The Gus/Mike showdown ought to be good, and I bet Mike wins.
Gus always moves in a precise and efficient fashion. Everything perfect.
The broken glass indicates he is losing control.

Mike locks the door in a precise fashion and took control. It will go his way.


All in all an almost perfect episode. They used great cinematography to advance the story.



....one sole complaint. The motel shootout.
They tried to hard to make it suspenseful and the brothers looked inept. They should have caught nacho in the truck.

...who knows, maybe the brothers are fucked in the head from their loss. The lady they covered...their mom? Aunt? Grandma? Nanny? Whoever she was, they loved her.
Nice observations. I don't remember the twins covering a lady, but I probably I missed that. I thought the person they covered (and put the card on the sheet) was dead/fake/burned Lalo, but maybe I'm wrong. I'll have to watch it again.

I agree about the motel scene. There are little questions like that which nag me (like, why not just have Nacho drive straight forward out of the parking lot; why have him back up and then somehow miss both twins when driving out and past them?), but overall, it was good.
 

airtime143

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@airtime143 @Granada @Angry Boomer

Yeah, the first scene is post breaking bad immediately but before "Gene" at Cinnabon. Bet we get more on that soon....

As for the safe, that was confusing. But I believe what @Angry Boomer said is right. . Gus set that all up by paying off the meth heads, switching the safe to give Nacho's location away. Mike is protecting Nacho's dad, that's why he looks at the ID and takes it out.

The twins show up at the same time as Juan Bolsa's men too. Cartel, Gus, and the Salamancas.... none of them trust eachother which means things are going to heat up.

The Heel turn by Kim, incredible.


On the safe- I have been going back and forth on whether or not Mike knew what it was.
I can 100% buy that Mike planted that paper without asking questions and never looking at it or even considering what it was. He takes care of the task at hand, no questions asked.
I can also 100% buy that Mike suspected what he was doing.
I can also 100% buy that he knew exactly what was on the paper and what it would lead to.

I suspect he knew based on his face as he planted the paper.

in any scenario, hiding Nacho's father is a total Mike move- He has zero sympathy for anyone "in the game", and will never involve anyone "not in the game". He has always been 100% solid on that.

The set up by Fring was pretty smart. Providing him with guns served a couple purposes.
#1, It made Nacho feel as though they were looking out for him.
#2, it assured that should the Salamancas find him first, there would be a shootout that likely ended up with Nacho dead before the Salamancas could get information about his connection to fring.

Kims Heel turn is great- the setup on the phone call was really good. I do wonder who was on the other line... was it really someone with the IRS? I kind of doubt it. You would think that if it was, they would follow up with her. She may have set that up with a friend without sauls knowledge.

The Kim/ saul dynamic is really interesting. She refers to Saul as Saul to jimmy- and she is buying in to the shady side better than Jimmy is. Her influence is shaping the Saul we eventually meet.
Kim initiated and planned the Howard Hamlin hit job, Came up with using the Kettlemans, and took the reigns on the Kettleman strong arming.
Saul on the other hand is slipping. He royally fucked himself when talking to the detective and prosecutor and saying "Lalo" instead of DeGuzman. That is gonna bite him- the cops will put it together.

He also took pity and gave the Kettlemans money, despite them being broken by Kim.

I was waiting for a specific response when Kim said "you gave them the money, didnt you?"
I was expecting him to say "I didn't give it to them, I bought that from them" pointing at the statue of liberty inflatable.
He comes in to possession of that somehow.

Gilligan writes a great story- everything means something for the most part. The one issue I am casting about on with no real hypothesis is Why Hamlin was trying to make up with Saul.
The most logical reason is to get a better cut of the Sandpiper settlement, but that seems to easy for this show.
 

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On the safe- I have been going back and forth on whether or not Mike knew what it was.
I can 100% buy that Mike planted that paper without asking questions and never looking at it or even considering what it was. He takes care of the task at hand, no questions asked.
I can also 100% buy that Mike suspected what he was doing.
I can also 100% buy that he knew exactly what was on the paper and what it would lead to.

I suspect he knew based on his face as he planted the paper.

in any scenario, hiding Nacho's father is a total Mike move- He has zero sympathy for anyone "in the game", and will never involve anyone "not in the game". He has always been 100% solid on that.

The set up by Fring was pretty smart. Providing him with guns served a couple purposes.
#1, It made Nacho feel as though they were looking out for him.
#2, it assured that should the Salamancas find him first, there would be a shootout that likely ended up with Nacho dead before the Salamancas could get information about his connection to fring.

Kims Heel turn is great- the setup on the phone call was really good. I do wonder who was on the other line... was it really someone with the IRS? I kind of doubt it. You would think that if it was, they would follow up with her. She may have set that up with a friend without sauls knowledge.

The Kim/ saul dynamic is really interesting. She refers to Saul as Saul to jimmy- and she is buying in to the shady side better than Jimmy is. Her influence is shaping the Saul we eventually meet.
Kim initiated and planned the Howard Hamlin hit job, Came up with using the Kettlemans, and took the reigns on the Kettleman strong arming.
Saul on the other hand is slipping. He royally fucked himself when talking to the detective and prosecutor and saying "Lalo" instead of DeGuzman. That is gonna bite him- the cops will put it together.

He also took pity and gave the Kettlemans money, despite them being broken by Kim.

I was waiting for a specific response when Kim said "you gave them the money, didnt you?"
I was expecting him to say "I didn't give it to them, I bought that from them" pointing at the statue of liberty inflatable.
He comes in to possession of that somehow.

Gilligan writes a great story- everything means something for the most part. The one issue I am casting about on with no real hypothesis is Why Hamlin was trying to make up with Saul.
The most logical reason is to get a better cut of the Sandpiper settlement, but that seems to easy for this show.
I could be completely wrong here, but I almost feel like Kim is putting on an act. She's pretending to be more ruthless than she wants to be and she's trying to convince Jimmy that she's like him, but she's really not. Why would she do this? Because it's part of a bigger plan on her part to somehow save Jimmy from himself, from going down a path she doesn't want him to go. I feel like the whole Howard thing is a way for her to control Jimmy, to keep him from embarking on more dangerous pursuits. And Jimmy knows it, to an extent. I feel like Kim might even be in cahoots with Howard. If this is true, this will jade Jimmy forever and solidify his fate as Saul Goodman.

The only other storyline would be that, Kim really is turning to the dark side, but that just seems too obvious for this show. But again, totally guessing.

Yeah, I'm dying to know how he gets that damn inflatable, lol.
 

zack54attack

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Seeing some rumors that more spinoffs could be coming for the BB world. Would love that. But we will see...
 

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I've never seen this show, but I'm looking for a new one to watch. Should I watch Saul first, or go right into Breaking Bad?
 

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I've never seen this show, but I'm looking for a new one to watch. Should I watch Saul first, or go right into Breaking Bad?
I'd say watch BB first, it'll make Saul more enjoyable. Saul is a good show, but compared to Breaking Bad, it's nothing. Breaking Bad, in my view, is the best show of all time behind only Sopranos, and it's a close second -- it's that fucking good. Again, Saul is solid and Odenkirk is phenomenal as per usual, but BB is an utter masterpiece; it'll make you want to watch Saul all the more, but I can't say that in reverse (i.e. Saul will make you want to watch BB all the more).
 

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Seeing some rumors that more spinoffs could be coming for the BB world. Would love that. But we will see...
As long as it is well done and not a terrible money grab like Jessie movie was

Even first season of Saul was hard to get through but the payoff now at the end is paying off big time. It’s the complete opposite of what’s going on with the walking dead
 

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My wife and I were having a discussion last night about which series was better..
1...Sopranos
2...Breaking Bad

I grew up Italian in an Italian neighborhood in Chicago, and could identify with many of the Soprano characters.. Many guys I grew up with were exact matches for some of the Soprano guys.

As good as that series was, IMO, it doesn't hold a candle to Breaking Bad..It was just too intense!
Every week had you sitting on the edge of your chair just waiting for the other shoe to drop on Walter White, Jesse Pinkman, and the rest of that crew.

The writers and actors were at the top of their game
1A and 1B in any order honestly. Love both of those shows.

The Wire is right there too.

Honestly, Saul is in my top 10 best all time and probably will be Top 5.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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My wife and I were having a discussion last night about which series was better..
1...Sopranos
2...Breaking Bad

I grew up Italian in an Italian neighborhood in Chicago, and could identify with many of the Soprano characters.. Many guys I grew up with were exact matches for some of the Soprano guys.

As good as that series was, IMO, it doesn't hold a candle to Breaking Bad..It was just too intense!
Every week had you sitting on the edge of your chair just waiting for the other shoe to drop on Walter White, Jesse Pinkman, and the rest of that crew.

The writers and actors were at the top of their game
Man that’s tough lol. I prob just put them both in the great category. Neither show was a bunch of filler and both shows didn’t have to suffer extra seasons just to squeeze the last dollar out of it. And both had movies done years after that sucked dick lol
 

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1A and 1B in any order honestly. Love both of those shows.

The Wire is right there too.

Honestly, Saul is in my top 10 best all time and probably will be Top 5.

The same buddy of mine who begged me to watch Breaking Bad is now begging me to watch The Wire. He puts it as his top 3 (behind Sopranos and BB). Seems like those 3 are pretty universal choices, got to check it out soon.
 

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The same buddy of mine who begged me to watch Breaking Bad is now begging me to watch The Wire. He puts it as his top 3 (behind Sopranos and BB). Seems like those 3 are pretty universal choices, got to check it out soon.
It’s really good but wasn’t a fan of the last season
 

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Yup, solid episode. What was up with the blue flower at the beginning? I got the shard of the glass thing (Nacho), but I can't remember the significance of the blue flower, if there is one.
 

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Yup, solid episode. What was up with the blue flower at the beginning? I got the shard of the glass thing (Nacho), but I can't remember the significance of the blue flower, if there is one.

My guess is nachos death meant a good life for his dad. Life springing up in a harsh wasteland where he died.
The way it was filmed, and with the rain falling... they could have been saying a lot.
One of the flowers appeared white the way the shot played out- white for pure intentions for his sacrifice, blue for sacrificing ones self advancing blue sky meth.... clear yet dirty glass getting washed clean in the rain?
Bkue flower(keeping the cartel going) overshadowed the whitish flower(nachos noble intent) rain being tears or sadness or reality, glass being nacho, dirty and clouded but washed clean with the rain- clarity of what is important?

I am starting to think blue might be sacrifice or death caused for the meth.
"Baby blue" played as Walter lovingly stroked his meth lab equipment as he died.
Jane was buried in blue.
The ribbons for the plane crash were blue.
The bottle of tequila fring used to kill Don eladio was blue.



Color is used a lot in breaking bad and saul- it is ever present thematically but i damn sure know i am not catching all the meanings.
Walter white, Jesse Pinkman... hanks wife was always in purple, the house was done in purple.
Grey matter technologies, a mix of Walter "white" and elliot Schwartz (black).

All colors mean something in this world- I am sure I am missing a lot, and might be wrong on a lot.
 

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My guess is nachos death meant a good life for his dad. Life springing up in a harsh wasteland where he died.
The way it was filmed, and with the rain falling... they could have been saying a lot.
One of the flowers appeared white the way the shot played out- white for pure intentions for his sacrifice, blue for sacrificing ones self advancing blue sky meth.... clear yet dirty glass getting washed clean in the rain?
Bkue flower(keeping the cartel going) overshadowed the whitish flower(nachos noble intent) rain being tears or sadness or reality, glass being nacho, dirty and clouded but washed clean with the rain- clarity of what is important?

I am starting to think blue might be sacrifice or death caused for the meth.
"Baby blue" played as Walter lovingly stroked his meth lab equipment as he died.
Jane was buried in blue.
The ribbons for the plane crash were blue.
The bottle of tequila fring used to kill Don eladio was blue.



Color is used a lot in breaking bad and saul- it is ever present thematically but i damn sure know i am not catching all the meanings.
Walter white, Jesse Pinkman... hanks wife was always in purple, the house was done in purple.
Grey matter technologies, a mix of Walter "white" and elliot Schwartz (black).

All colors mean something in this world- I am sure I am missing a lot, and might be wrong on a lot.
Yeah, makes sense. I read something that the flower signifies Nacho's love in sacrificing himself for his father. That threw me at first because, I didn't understand anything about Nacho to be "beautiful." His life was utterly tragic in a way and he ultimately made the wrong decisions in his life that led him to this point. He fell victim to his greed, into a trap he could never escape (also symbolized by those brown, branch-like structures that surround the flower, if memory serves). I suppose you could interpret the flower to mean redemption as well, although silver is the color most commonly associated with redemption. I'm unsure what the blue means exactly. I'm not even sure if it's blue or purple. If it's purple, then this makes sense to me:

The color purple is a rare occurring color in nature and as a result is often seen as having sacred meaning. Dark purple hues evoke feelings of gloom, sadness, and frustration.
Source: Meaning of The Color Purple |.

In this interpretation, purple makes sense. Nacho's character is all these things, and even though his selfishness/greed led him down a path he could not escape, he redeemed himself with the most unselfish act one can take (sacrifice).
 

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Yeah, makes sense. I read something that the flower signifies Nacho's love in sacrificing himself for his father. That threw me at first because, I didn't understand anything about Nacho to be "beautiful." His life was utterly tragic in a way and he ultimately made the wrong decisions in his life that led him to this point. He fell victim to his greed, into a trap he could never escape (also symbolized by those brown, branch-like structures that surround the flower, if memory serves). I suppose you could interpret the flower to mean redemption as well, although silver is the color most commonly associated with redemption. I'm unsure what the blue means exactly. I'm not even sure if it's blue or purple. If it's purple, then this makes sense to me:

The color purple is a rare occurring color in nature and as a result is often seen as having sacred meaning. Dark purple hues evoke feelings of gloom, sadness, and frustration.
Source: Meaning of The Color Purple |.

In this interpretation, purple makes sense. Nacho's character is all these things, and even though his selfishness/greed led him down a path he could not escape, he redeemed himself with the most unselfish act one can take (sacrifice).
For all his faults, he loved his dad and wanted to protect him at all costs.
Comparing him to Walter White is interesting. At the end of the day, Walter fell in love with being a powerful kingpin over his family. There were ample opportunities to extract himself and he refused to take them, despite it eventually putting his families future in the shitter.
Nacho on the other hand could have taken off and never been seen again. Instead, He chose to sacrifice himself to gain mikes protection for his dad.
2 similar situations, Nacho chose family, Walter chose power.


Interesting note on color that doesnt bode well for kim... She almost exclusively dresses in blue.
 

airtime143

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So- logistics and long term ramifications on this episode.
#1- Nacho made a bold change to the plan. It seems he was supposed to waste Bolsa, clearing the way for Fring to run the show.
He knows Lalo is alive, but Lalo has zero chance of operating north of the border at this point. The salamancas are a mess.

My take was Nacho refused to do Fring any more favors than he had to- He would absolve fring of the attack, and loosely put the responsibility on Salamanca for being a psycho, and the payment coming from some group of peruvians who apparently have a grudge against Bolsa, we will find out more I guess.

He got Mikes word that his pops would be left alone. He left Fring intact, but didnt advance his agenda... about all he could do to stick it to fring in his situation.
Mike will argue Nacho held up his end of the bargain, and Fring honestly has zero to gain going after Nacho's dad at this point.
Nacho left things in a situation where Mike has power to watch over his father, but didnt go the extra mile to hand the southwest drug trade to fring alone.


#2- Kim is getting worse. She went from passive participant in Sauls schemes to eager participant to taking control of the schemes in this season. She is driving the bus, and Saul is trying his best to keep her safe. She is smart, but Saul is crafty.
She is forcing him to get shady by choosing a path that requires him to navigate.

... I also get the feeling she is very much against Saul going clean on the Lalo situation.
Just her phrasing- "you need to decide if you want to be a friend to the cartel, or a rat".

Kim is smart as hell and a good lawyer. If he was being objective she would have chosen her word differently. If she wanted him to break free and tell the truth, she would have stated how that path would work and how it would be beneficial... but she didnt.
Why not?
Maybe because admitting to being fooled would undermine Sauls credibility. Maybe it would **** up the sandpiper payout timeline. Maybe she wants to be in the dirt with the cartel. Maybe she sees that as a way to the top of the heap.

She is turning for sure. We saw her get all horny after running a small scam, we saw her dump a cush job due to boredom and try the public defender route... which seemed to be derailed when she saw the results of her and Saul manipulating that defendant in to taking a plea deal rather than going to trial- She was against doing it but Saul put on a show, and she went with the results.

It seems her resistance to shady behavior broke completely at that moment, and the depths of her shady side might run far deeper than Saul's.
I am expecting her actions to force Saul once and for all in to the shady lawyer role.

As for Howard- the more I watch their plan, the more I think about it- he will wind up completely marginalized.
He seems squeaky clean, he is smart and powerful, and I cant see him coexisting practicing law in new mexico with Saul's resence after whatever winds up happening with this con they are running.
I have a hard time imagining him leaving Saul to do what he does in between now and the end of Breaking Bad.

We will wind up with some sort of current Day Saul I would imagine.
It is time to start guessing what that will be.
I see 3 possible options.
1- He gets whacked.
2- He goes to seek out kim if she is still alive.
3- Howard, disgraced and broke, finds him and turns him in.
 

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So- logistics and long term ramifications on this episode.
#1- Nacho made a bold change to the plan. It seems he was supposed to waste Bolsa, clearing the way for Fring to run the show.
He knows Lalo is alive, but Lalo has zero chance of operating north of the border at this point. The salamancas are a mess.

My take was Nacho refused to do Fring any more favors than he had to- He would absolve fring of the attack, and loosely put the responsibility on Salamanca for being a psycho, and the payment coming from some group of peruvians who apparently have a grudge against Bolsa, we will find out more I guess.

He got Mikes word that his pops would be left alone. He left Fring intact, but didnt advance his agenda... about all he could do to stick it to fring in his situation.
Mike will argue Nacho held up his end of the bargain, and Fring honestly has zero to gain going after Nacho's dad at this point.
Nacho left things in a situation where Mike has power to watch over his father, but didnt go the extra mile to hand the southwest drug trade to fring alone.


#2- Kim is getting worse. She went from passive participant in Sauls schemes to eager participant to taking control of the schemes in this season. She is driving the bus, and Saul is trying his best to keep her safe. She is smart, but Saul is crafty.
She is forcing him to get shady by choosing a path that requires him to navigate.

... I also get the feeling she is very much against Saul going clean on the Lalo situation.
Just her phrasing- "you need to decide if you want to be a friend to the cartel, or a rat".

Kim is smart as hell and a good lawyer. If he was being objective she would have chosen her word differently. If she wanted him to break free and tell the truth, she would have stated how that path would work and how it would be beneficial... but she didnt.
Why not?
Maybe because admitting to being fooled would undermine Sauls credibility. Maybe it would **** up the sandpiper payout timeline. Maybe she wants to be in the dirt with the cartel. Maybe she sees that as a way to the top of the heap.

She is turning for sure. We saw her get all horny after running a small scam, we saw her dump a cush job due to boredom and try the public defender route... which seemed to be derailed when she saw the results of her and Saul manipulating that defendant in to taking a plea deal rather than going to trial- She was against doing it but Saul put on a show, and she went with the results.

It seems her resistance to shady behavior broke completely at that moment, and the depths of her shady side might run far deeper than Saul's.
I am expecting her actions to force Saul once and for all in to the shady lawyer role.

As for Howard- the more I watch their plan, the more I think about it- he will wind up completely marginalized.
He seems squeaky clean, he is smart and powerful, and I cant see him coexisting practicing law in new mexico with Saul's resence after whatever winds up happening with this con they are running.
I have a hard time imagining him leaving Saul to do what he does in between now and the end of Breaking Bad.

We will wind up with some sort of current Day Saul I would imagine.
It is time to start guessing what that will be.
I see 3 possible options.
1- He gets whacked.
2- He goes to seek out kim if she is still alive.
3- Howard, disgraced and broke, finds him and turns him in.
I could totally be wrong here, but wasn't the plan for Nacho to be killed by Victor (Fring's guy)? I just assumed when he held the gun to Bolsa's head, that was improvised on the spot. The deal between Fring and Nacho was, Fring will grant him a quick death if he says Alvarez hired him to kill Lalo. Nacho does that; and yes, he could have gone the extra mile and killed Bolsa pro bono, but why help Fring anymore than he had to? Might as well go out by his own hand. That's how I read it anyway.

I still can't tell if Kim is getting worse or starting to find her moral compass again, which is what makes her character and her acting so awesome. I have no clue. But to play devil's advocate, she looked legitimately freaked in the prosecutor's office and if she really was completely lost to the dark side, why even bring up the prosecutor's offer/present the option to Saul instead of just dismissing it outright? I feel like this can all just be a test by Kim, to see if her fears are valid and if Saul is too far gone, and to see how far he's willing to take her with him. Completely guessing of course.

I can't help but think current day Saul is being hunted by Kim in some way and that she survives. Like maybe she's still alive and she flipped or something. Maybe she went into hiding with the vacuum guy's help before the events of BB. Maybe she works for the DA now, lol. Then again, that really wouldn't lead to an outstanding series finale.
 

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I watched it again- didnt feel like I got Nachos motivation right, and I was wondering about the weapon and why he brought it.

He broke his drinking glass the night before to get the glass shard.
It certainly wasnt to escape, his dad would face retribution if he did.

He had no idea Mike would be there to take him out if things went sideways... mike mentioned that to fring after leaving the trailer.
It wasnt to kill Bolsa, because he had that opportunity.
My guess is insurance for 2 things.
1- to slit his wrists if he was handed to the cousins. He didnt trust Victor to get the job done. My guess is that he felt Fring would let things play out however they were going to and rely on Nacho's devotion to his father to keep quiet.
2- to do exactly what he did- make absolutely certain that Hector knew what he did.

The decision to not waste Bolsa was a great **** you to fring. He held his word to Fring, but Fring for a moment saw a clear path to ruling the drug trade alone.
All it would have taken is an already dead man doing him that favor.
But, Nacho looked him in the eye and just wasted himself.

It was the right call. Based on Hectors rage, I have my doubts Bolsa would have let him off with an easy death, and Fring would really not be able to stop it without starting an internal war.



As for kim.... I cant wait to see the continuation of Saul and kims discussion over what he should do.
I think the friend of the cartel or rat statement was chosen to influence. (maybe kim wants him in that world, maybe she is scared of retribution).
Whichever way it goes, Saul trusts Kim and she never explained the advantages of coming clean nor presented it as a desired route.
The other thing that makes me think she doesnt want to do it is her discussion with the prosecutor.
She, instead of discussing the issue, corrected the prosecutors use of "Jimmy", and pointed out her treatment of him.

She seemed of the mindset that the prosecutor doesnt have a damn thing on saul and that the real issue was fucking her over for shitting on Saul.

Now- that is going to be a problem.
The prosecutor did not play all her cards. Jimmy using "Lalo" instead of deguzmann is going to come back to bite him.
It was a throwaway scene that has not been addressed, and it is a big fucking deal down the road.
The detective and the prosecutor both heard it, and you can bet your ass they will find more things to connect jimmy with.
There is still a bullet riddled car out there registered to Goodman, and possibly some cash floating around nearby- remember he wore a hole in the bag and lost some bills.
There might also be a bottle of piss to tie his dna with the money.

The law is coming for him.
 

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