Official Breaking Bad Thread (Vol. Better Call Saul S5)

[zack54attack]

Can't dispute that and falls in line with Kim's character who is usually just as meticulously detailed as Fring.



Maybe, but I still don't think she posed herself as a threat as much as she proved how loyal she is to Jimmy. So if Fring thinks Jimmy is useful...you imagine Kim becomes just as useful by proxy.

I think it plays out more like Fring shows genuine interest in both, but Kim is way too shook to do this any longer and that starts the rift between Kim & Jimmy.

At that point, maybe Fring gets involved to limit Jimmy's options in any "it's them or me" ultimatums.



Oh yeah, forgot about that.

I binged seasons 4 & 5 when this season kicked off, but it feels like 3 or 4 lifetimes since I watched those first three seasons.

Remember 2016??? That was like a different world, man!

Feels longer because of the 1.5 year break from 2020.. PLUS those first 2-3 seasons were so damn slow.

 

[Penny Traitor]

Feels longer because of the 1.5 year break from 2020.. PLUS those first 2-3 seasons were so damn slow.

Everything from before 2020 seems so long ago to me, but I agree the first two seasons almost lost me. It really did not start getting good until Fring is reintroduced. He is an amazing character.

 

[Penny Traitor]

Also, I saw these on the AMC app, but YouTube has them too...so I just thought I would share them here.

Kim's was my favorite.

 

[airtime143]

Everything from before 2020 seems so long ago to me, but I agree the first two seasons almost lost me. It really did not start getting good until Fring is reintroduced. He is an amazing character.

I am glad I started a couple seasons in- those first 2 were rough.
Mike, fring, and nacho made the show for me.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

I am glad I started a couple seasons in- those first 2 were rough.
Mike, fring, and nacho made the show for me.

It was such a chore to make it through those first two lol

 

[Penny Traitor]

It was such a chore to make it through those first two lol

The twisted triangle that was Jimmy, Chuck and Howard kept me going, but halfway through season two I started thinking I got tricked into watching a law drama.

Then Fring comes back into the story and Jimmy starts embracing his inner Saul Goodman, so it really takes off there because that's really why we were all watching anyhow.

And of course the glorious return of Mike Ermantrout...or however you spell it!

He was my favorite BB character every moment he was on screen. In fact I was always pulling for Walt until....well....you know.

After that, I wanted Walter White dead.

 

[airtime143]

Interesting tidbit about the July 25th episode- Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston both had their imdb profiles update to appear in that episode.

Leads me to wonder if it will be a fan service couple of cameos pre meth or if we are going to see some sort of time jump and get to see them as partners.

If it is meth dealer days, I would imagine Kim is out of the picture by then... or else saul was doing his womanizing act to cover for Kim still being around in hiding.

 

[Granada]

Interesting tidbit about the July 25th episode- Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston both had their imdb profiles update to appear in that episode.

Leads me to wonder if it will be a fan service couple of cameos pre meth or if we are going to see some sort of time jump and get to see them as partners.

If it is meth dealer days, I would imagine Kim is out of the picture by then... or else saul was doing his womanizing act to cover for Kim still being around in hiding.

Totally guessing here, but I feel like it might be a time-jump thing. I don't know how they'd do it any other way. I always liked how they met for the first time in Breaking Bad, with Jesse telling Walt about him, etc. -- so I hope they don't do something stupid, like set up another "unofficial" way they met.

It'll probably be like how they did it El Camino with Walt. I've only seen that once right when it came out so I'm fuzzy, but that was a time-jump if memory serves. That was a flashback though, much easier to execute. Maybe Gene has a flashback with them; that would be the easiest way.

Either way, I'm not a fan of bringing back Walt and Jesse in BCS. I just think it's completely unnecessary.

 

[airtime143]

Totally guessing here, but I feel like it might be a time-jump thing. I don't know how they'd do it any other way. I always liked how they met for the first time in Breaking Bad, with Jesse telling Walt about him, etc. -- so I hope they don't do something stupid, like set up another "unofficial" way they met.

It'll probably be like how they did it El Camino with Walt. I've only seen that once right when it came out so I'm fuzzy, but that was a time-jump if memory serves. That was a flashback though, much easier to execute. Maybe Gene has a flashback with them; that would be the easiest way.

Either way, I'm not a fan of bringing back Walt and Jesse in BCS. I just think it's completely unnecessary.

Before they filmed this season, gilligan made a good point and suggested jesse showing up would be almost a certainty.
His justification was that Jesse was aware of saul and pointed Walt his way.
It is entirely possible given Saul's volume and Jesse's past that Jesse had used him before.

When saul first sees walt and Jesse together, it is the ski mask scene where saul thinks it is Lalo's people and blames things on nacho- seeing some dealer he had worked with before would be secondary to realizing what Walt wanted for badger and why.

I could buy a saul and Jesse scene.

If it is a plot element with Walt and Jesse, there has to be a jump.

If there isn't, the time frames are being reconfigured.... the timeline is pretty clear on the fan page we are a couple years before walts entry in to crime.

Or.... it is just a fan service bumping in to Walt at the store or some shit.


Just to float a possibility, and to reference Cranston and Paul's interview, I am thinking it will be an expansion of an existing BB scene.
They mentioned they were brought in to a private part of the airport and picked up "2 steps from the plane".
They were housed in an air bnb and not allowed to leave- makeup and "wardrobe checks" were done in the house, they were driven in for their scenes with no waiting time and left immediately.

My guess is they had to match wardrobes to a scene in BB and that a photo of them in those clothes could probably point to the episode it was from.


All I know is I am really curious. If they are worked in to the plot for an episode in 8 days, then a shit ton of action is going down tonight.

Another wildcard possibility is some sort of episode lead in with walt/jesse/saul/cabdriver scenes setting up genes conclusion.
Since they recast the cabbie, and since he would logically know that saul is a wanted fugitive, there is quite a bit more to go on that front.

I am really looking forward to these next few weeks.
The final few episodes of breaking bad were one bombshell after another, with each storyline getting its own fulfilling close, I am hoping this is the same- each week a finale of its own.

 

[airtime143]

Ok- thinking about unresolved plot points...
Tuco will be back. We know this.
We also know that tuco takes Walt and Jesse to the house where Hector is.
I am thinking Walt and jesses parts will be tuco centered if it is actually a plot point.

Currently, Hector is in a facility monitored and paid for by gus.
His pet to torture.
Hector knew Lalo was alive, Hector knew fring put out the hit and ultimately killed Lalo.

Hector was the only cartel member to know this.

Tuco gets out. We know he will, and he will take over the cartel in ABQ. I think Hector fills tuco in on what he knows, which causes tucos attempt to flee.
Tuco grabs Walt and Jesse, is gonna take them to the cartel and also burn fring to the ground.

Mike and company may very well have been hiding in the shadows waiting for the chance to kill tuco and capture hector, only to watch Walt, Jesse and hank take tuco out.

Tuco and Hector are a big problem for the show to sort out.
Once tuco is out, Hector will find a way to let him know that Lalo lived, that the lab exists, and fring was behind the hit.

That is a large problem to solve, and a great way to work Jesse and Walt in.

 

[zack54attack]

Spoiler

Wow. All that speculation of what Kim is going to do...and she just packs her bags and leaves. Damn.


Also, we are in the BB timeline now!

 

[Granada]

Spoiler

So essentially, Kim was the only thing that was ever holding Jimmy from fully becoming Saul. Sure, she'd plant some little ideas here and there that he would always hold onto (snazzy suits, etc.), but still, the complete transformation would have never occurred if she stayed with him. Losing her is what truly made him who he is in BB; his path was changed/solidified forever when she left him. I like that and I like that her purity and character are redeemed.

The idea of Justice is fantastic. When Mike tells Lalo's Dad about justice, the latter goes "you gangsters and your justice, you're all the same." Saul is just like any other gangster because his idea of "justice" is just as flawed and perverse. Same with Mike. Fring, Saul, they're all the same.

Another theme throughout the episode: none of these character can ever rest and/or follow their own pursuits. Fring and Mike both try to relax in their own way (Fring with the wine at the restaurant with that one guy, who may be a love interest of Fring's?? And Mike watching the game with a beer), but they simply can't, even for 5 minutes. Same with Saul now -- from the minute he wakes up (with the prostitute), he's bound to his work. None of them are really free.

Anyways, just a really solid episode. Sometimes you don't need action and violence to appreciate it.

 

[airtime143]

Spoiler: Is kim redeemed?

Focusing on Kim... I think they left her open to interpretation.
I get someone having the perception that she was redeemed... but I am not that forgiving, and here is why.

The life changing explosive event was Howard getting killed.
She went on with her day as usual. Doing her job, hugging clients, the whole 9 yards.
She gets home, looks at the room, Saul gets home, and then we get the scene in the bedroom- her lying there as saul gives a pep talk to her, but really more for himself.

Kim is so damn hard to read. Her and saul in bed with her being silent was used to throw us for a loop before.. you think she is feeling a moral quandry, and then she turns to saul and says "lets ruin Howard". A complete and shocking 180 of what you think she was thinking.

That in mind, The pep talk in the bedroom and her lack of response could mean anything.

Then I look at what she did afterwards.

She burnt Howards widow to the ground. Once she did that, she finished it up by salting the earth so nothing would ever grow there again.

Their plan worked. They were above suspicion. Mike confirmed it with his inside guy. Mike also told them to stick to the story and nothing more, they know nothing else.
The widow of course has questions, but what of it? They were in the midst of a divorce. Howard staying in the guest house.

Kim chose to make up the snorting coke story. Then, she really kicked the widow in the crotch by saying "you were his wife, you would have noticed something- you saw him every day!"
She maliciously tore down Howard knowing the other attorney would corroborate, then she sowed the seeds of responsibility on to the widow, making it perfectly clear to her that she absolutely should have seen this coming.

As for her leaving... She is doing it to protect saul from her OR, she realizes he is at a point where the games end. He is now a multi millionaire, he suffered a catastrophe, and he wants to get through it and move on.
Kim dumps his ass cold, and underscores where her interest is by telling Jimmy she didnt tell him about lalo because she was having too much fun destroying Howard, and she knew Jimmy would stop the game.
That is a big risk to take with jimmies life.
She said together they were poison- but she made the decision to risk Jimmies life on her own.
She made the decision to piss on howard at his funeral and destroy the widow alone.
Jimmies solo decision regarding Howard is midnight vandalism.
Kims solo decision is destroying people.

I think the thing that really made me start thinking about what Kims intentions are was her having the smoke as saul pulled up.
Their smoking together seemed to me a metaphor for their "secret pleasures" or hidden lives.
Kim usually started the fire, saul would grab it and join in, and more often than not he would be the one to extinguish it.
Kim enjoying a smoke solo and keeping it from jimmy was of course her making a decision on her own... but the motivation of that decision is not cut and dry in my opinion.

I think if redemption is what she wanted, she would do that via defending people who needed it- she could do it pro bono with their new found riches.
She burnt that path to the ground, and it was her executive decision.
In the same conversation where she tells Jimmy that, She speaks of another solo, executive decision she made and pointed out that her motivation was she wanted to continue inflicting damage because it was fun.
I cant see those two point being unrelated.

To go a little further, She burnt Jimmies future to the ground.
I think he was being genuine when he said he was jealous that Howard had Chuck's respect.
Saul wanted a classy office, he wanted a solid partnership, he still wanted to honor Chuck.
Their actions erased Chucks legacy entirely.
The firm with his name is erased.
The scholarship will of course die with the firm.
Saul has no family. No friends. Kim was all he had left, and partnering with her made his "goodman and associates" sign something to be proud of... there he was, proud as could be putting it up and imagining him and kim and their bright future. He put that bad boy up, and Kim cut his legs out from under him.
Saul wanted to turn the page and move on. Kim had no interest and left Jimmy with literally nothing- no partnership, nobody to make proud, no dream to build for- Nothing.

She took away every single last motivation he had to do the right thing.

TLDR- I think kim is a sociopath. She destroyed every motivation Jimmy had to be a good person, and left him 100% alone.

 

[airtime143]

Spoiler: On to mike

On to mike- Usually drinking means inner turmoil for mike.
He had his beer and then went to do the right thing. Ease Nachos dads mind and give him closure.

The camera POV really set the tone. Mike outside the fence, dad inside his own world.
They talk, and Nachos dad instead of being comforted a little, slaps mike across the face.
Mike went to tell him the "truth", and he flipped it and told mike his own truth.
The last time they show a side shot of the both of them, as Nachos dad was saying his piece, the perspective on mike is completely encircled with the chain link fence, and Nachos dad is in a clear space.

Mikes words regarding the person nacho was and the decisions he made were also Mike explaining who he is. He made bad choices. He has a good heart. He fell in with the wrong people. He wasnt like them. He was a good person in a bad position.
Nachos dad was having none of it.
He said his son was gone, and then underscored it by shooting mikes entire point down. You are not different. You guys are all the same. delude yourself all you wish, but the reality is you are a terrible person doing terrible things.

Mike went looking for a shred of redemption for himself, and he received none.

That is another reason why I question kim- I think their stories are parallels.
Both mike and kim always had a plan. They both always know what to do and go about it with no emotion- they get the job done.
They both use minimal talking to get their point across, and they both have a soft spot for 1 single person.
Both of their wardrobes have become darker and darker.
Kim is the female version of mike.
I think mike just learned there is no redemption for him, does that also mean kim thinks there is no redemption for h

er?

 

[airtime143]

This one doesnt need spoiler tags.

What did gus realize at the bar?
something popped in to his mind.
My guess is something to do with Hector.
My guess is that the bottle of wine that Fring bought a couple years back for a special occasion was for the day he kills Hector.
The wine talk brought up Hector, and there is something regarding that that fring needs to address.

 

[Granada]

Spoiler: Is kim redeemed?

Focusing on Kim... I think they left her open to interpretation.
I get someone having the perception that she was redeemed... but I am not that forgiving, and here is why.

The life changing explosive event was Howard getting killed.
She went on with her day as usual. Doing her job, hugging clients, the whole 9 yards.
She gets home, looks at the room, Saul gets home, and then we get the scene in the bedroom- her lying there as saul gives a pep talk to her, but really more for himself.

Kim is so damn hard to read. Her and saul in bed with her being silent was used to throw us for a loop before.. you think she is feeling a moral quandry, and then she turns to saul and says "lets ruin Howard". A complete and shocking 180 of what you think she was thinking.

That in mind, The pep talk in the bedroom and her lack of response could mean anything.

Then I look at what she did afterwards.

She burnt Howards widow to the ground. Once she did that, she finished it up by salting the earth so nothing would ever grow there again.

Their plan worked. They were above suspicion. Mike confirmed it with his inside guy. Mike also told them to stick to the story and nothing more, they know nothing else.
The widow of course has questions, but what of it? They were in the midst of a divorce. Howard staying in the guest house.

Kim chose to make up the snorting coke story. Then, she really kicked the widow in the crotch by saying "you were his wife, you would have noticed something- you saw him every day!"
She maliciously tore down Howard knowing the other attorney would corroborate, then she sowed the seeds of responsibility on to the widow, making it perfectly clear to her that she absolutely should have seen this coming.

As for her leaving... She is doing it to protect saul from her OR, she realizes he is at a point where the games end. He is now a multi millionaire, he suffered a catastrophe, and he wants to get through it and move on.
Kim dumps his ass cold, and underscores where her interest is by telling Jimmy she didnt tell him about lalo because she was having too much fun destroying Howard, and she knew Jimmy would stop the game.
That is a big risk to take with jimmies life.
She said together they were poison- but she made the decision to risk Jimmies life on her own.
She made the decision to piss on howard at his funeral and destroy the widow alone.
Jimmies solo decision regarding Howard is midnight vandalism.
Kims solo decision is destroying people.

I think the thing that really made me start thinking about what Kims intentions are was her having the smoke as saul pulled up.
Their smoking together seemed to me a metaphor for their "secret pleasures" or hidden lives.
Kim usually started the fire, saul would grab it and join in, and more often than not he would be the one to extinguish it.
Kim enjoying a smoke solo and keeping it from jimmy was of course her making a decision on her own... but the motivation of that decision is not cut and dry in my opinion.

I think if redemption is what she wanted, she would do that via defending people who needed it- she could do it pro bono with their new found riches.
She burnt that path to the ground, and it was her executive decision.
In the same conversation where she tells Jimmy that, She speaks of another solo, executive decision she made and pointed out that her motivation was she wanted to continue inflicting damage because it was fun.
I cant see those two point being unrelated.

To go a little further, She burnt Jimmies future to the ground.
I think he was being genuine when he said he was jealous that Howard had Chuck's respect.
Saul wanted a classy office, he wanted a solid partnership, he still wanted to honor Chuck.
Their actions erased Chucks legacy entirely.
The firm with his name is erased.
The scholarship will of course die with the firm.
Saul has no family. No friends. Kim was all he had left, and partnering with her made his "goodman and associates" sign something to be proud of... there he was, proud as could be putting it up and imagining him and kim and their bright future. He put that bad boy up, and Kim cut his legs out from under him.
Saul wanted to turn the page and move on. Kim had no interest and left Jimmy with literally nothing- no partnership, nobody to make proud, no dream to build for- Nothing.

She took away every single last motivation he had to do the right thing.

TLDR- I think kim is a sociopath. She destroyed every motivation Jimmy had to be a good person, and left him 100% alone.

Spoiler: Perhaps not "fully" redeemed, but

Yeah, I'd still say she's redeemed at least to some extent. It took Howard's death but in the end, she did see the path she was headed and it freaked and disgusted her the **** out, enough so that she willfully sacrificed her entire career and everything she'd built to that point. She couldn't just go back to being a lawyer and pretending like nothing happened, that's redeeming in and of itself for her particular character. She reached her limit, unlike Saul. He even says right before his last kiss with Kim, one day we'll just wake up and not even remember this happened; let the healing begin (paraphrasing). No, not for her. She can't go back, because she's really not like Saul. Or Mike. Or Fring. She isn't past the point of no return -- she would have been, if she stayed with Saul and if she went back to her old life. She accepted her responsibility for Howard's death -- which is again redeeming -- by leaving Saul and even giving up her law license. Quite simply, she is still capable of pure guilt over what had happened; Saul isn't.

I predicted a while back that the cabby in the Gene scenes is a PI hired by Kim to track him down. Technically, my theory is still alive, lol. Maybe now that Saul is "dead," she wants a reunion now.

 

[Granada]

Spoiler: On to mike

On to mike- Usually drinking means inner turmoil for mike.
He had his beer and then went to do the right thing. Ease Nachos dads mind and give him closure.

The camera POV really set the tone. Mike outside the fence, dad inside his own world.
They talk, and Nachos dad instead of being comforted a little, slaps mike across the face.
Mike went to tell him the "truth", and he flipped it and told mike his own truth.
The last time they show a side shot of the both of them, as Nachos dad was saying his piece, the perspective on mike is completely encircled with the chain link fence, and Nachos dad is in a clear space.

Mikes words regarding the person nacho was and the decisions he made were also Mike explaining who he is. He made bad choices. He has a good heart. He fell in with the wrong people. He wasnt like them. He was a good person in a bad position.
Nachos dad was having none of it.
He said his son was gone, and then underscored it by shooting mikes entire point down. You are not different. You guys are all the same. delude yourself all you wish, but the reality is you are a terrible person doing terrible things.

Mike went looking for a shred of redemption for himself, and he received none.

That is another reason why I question kim- I think their stories are parallels.
Both mike and kim always had a plan. They both always know what to do and go about it with no emotion- they get the job done.
They both use minimal talking to get their point across, and they both have a soft spot for 1 single person.
Both of their wardrobes have become darker and darker.
Kim is the female version of mike.
I think mike just learned there is no redemption for him, does that also mean kim thinks there is no redemption for h

er?

Spoiler

I view Kim as different because she actually chooses to get out while she can. She had a limit (death of a person, that person being Howard). The other three only get deeper and deeper. They are past the point of no return. She sees even Saul is past the point of no return now; Howard's death didn't faze him in the slightest, really. That's one reason why she can't stay with him anymore.

I mentioned freedom or lackthereof with regard to Mike, Fring, and now Saul. But Kim is free, she freed herself from everything, even her career and her husband. Just one more way she differs from the others: she's not completely bound by her profession; Mike, Saul, and Fring all are.

 

[zack54attack]

This one doesnt need spoiler tags.

What did gus realize at the bar?
something popped in to his mind.
My guess is something to do with Hector.
My guess is that the bottle of wine that Fring bought a couple years back for a special occasion was for the day he kills Hector.
The wine talk brought up Hector, and there is something regarding that that fring needs to address.

When Gus looked into the pool it was kinda a look into his past. I took the bar scene as him trying to be normal, making conversation but realizing he cant do that. he doesn't live a normal life.

 

[Granada]

When Gus looked into the pool it was kinda a look into his past. I took the bar scene as him trying to be normal, making conversation but realizing he cant do that. he doesn't live a normal life.

Yeah that's how I read it too. Lalo's dead and he just got back from the cartel meeting where he washed his hands of his involvement -- so, it should be a time for him to relax. For now, all the heat is completely off after being on him for so long. So he tries to enjoy it, but he still can't, because now he has to focus on the lab's completion.

That waiter/owner/whatever guy he was talking to, I don't remember him until this episode. They obviously have some sort of past as acquaintances at least. Maybe this is a weird reading of it, but it was almost like that guy was a love interest of Fring's. Fring saved the wine recommendation all this time for a "special occassion" and then the guy says something like, "well I hope I'm there for that." To me that sounded like a romantic date in the future or something. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as Seinfeld says.

 

[KittiesKorner]

Guess you all don’t remember that is the same patio and pool where fring poisons eladio and everyone?