Official CCS Grillmasters thread

[brett05]

The quality of brisket you buy is very important.... brisket is very unforgiving.... it is the anti-Jesus of BBQ meats.

Do you crutch your ribs at all?

one moment...looking that up

 

[brett05]

Nope, I do not wrap my ribs

 

[Ares]

one moment...looking that up

Crutch just means wrap in foil at some point in the cooking process till it is complete.... usually helps power thru stall for pork butt or brisket.

For ribs it helps with tenderness in my experience.

 

[brett05]

I will double check with my brother in law I do not think he crutches either his brisket (12-16 hours) or his pork roasts (8 hours)

 

[clonetrooper264]

I taught my parents how to do ribs in the oven both crutched and not crutched. In my experience in the oven crutching helps keep that fall off the bone tenderness. When I smoked ribs over the summer I did not crutch and they still had fall off the bone consistency. Probably what matters more is the temp at that point.

For those bigger ventures (ie pork butt and brisket) crutching helps get past the stall point. When I did a pork butt I did probably 2/3 of the time in the smoker then crutched it and moved it to the oven to finish. Probably would've taken twice as long to finish it on the grill with indirect heat.

 

[brett05]

ok, let's see if this works, a correction is about to come:

First off thanks to...I think Ares for getting me to IMGUR

Secondly, It's been two years since my main grill last worked so I was wrong. It is indeed 250 degrees that I smoke my ribs at. I took this picture as a reminder.

I'll be posting my old pics here again. I'll use spoiler tags so no one has to see my work

 

[brett05]

Quick story one
http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/sportsdream/story_19483/story

Let me know if that works for ya

 

[Burque]

bad cuts like skirt steak, I get the tenderizing. A good cut and you lose so much of the juices by making holes in it.

Time wise, I am with you. I like my steak rare or less in the mid section of the steak

You are incorrect about the juiciness. You don't do it so how would you possibly know?

I happen to poke holes every time, lots of holes, on good cuts of steak no less and I do not have a juiciness issue. They are still juicy and delicious.

 

[Tater]

Quick story one
http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/sportsdream/story_19483/story

Let me know if that works for ya

The link worked.

 

[brett05]

You are incorrect about the juiciness. You don't do it so how would you possibly know?

I happen to poke holes every time, lots of holes, on good cuts of steak no less and I do not have a juiciness issue. They are still juicy and delicious.

Been told my many that say never. In fairness I have never tried it. I will try your method on my next good steak and I'll know first hand.

 

[dennehy]

Some of the most famous, and best IMO, Texas bbq places smoke their brisket at 275 or higher. I usually did them at about 250. It doesn't really matter, people do them in a variety of temps. What matters is getting it to the proper temp (190-195) and keeping it at that temp for as long as possible, and to never let the brisket steam at all - never cover it.

I never thought the quality was that important in terms of how they cooked. Taste, yes. I once ordered a brisket from Dominick's ( I think) in Chicago. They gave me a trimmed flat. You need the whole muscle to smoke properly.

 

[dennehy]

I never crutch meat. That steams it. I don't care for that texture. I really try not to put anything wet on smoked meat, except for maybe a thin layer of mustard to help the spices stick before cooking, until maybe the very end with ribs. And then it's just a glaze of vinegar and sugar or something like that.

But IMO spare ribs also need a good deal of flavor added, so I use a pretty aggressive rub.

 

[Ares]

Some of the most famous, and best IMO, Texas bbq places smoke their brisket at 275 or higher. I usually did them at about 250. It doesn't really matter, people do them in a variety of temps. What matters is getting it to the proper temp (190-195) and keeping it at that temp for as long as possible, and to never let the brisket steam at all - never cover it.

I never thought the quality was that important in terms of how they cooked. Taste, yes. I once ordered a brisket from Dominick's ( I think) in Chicago. They gave me a trimmed flat. You need the whole muscle to smoke properly.

Personally if I am slow smoking I am not going that high, but I've heard the same things.... that some competition cooks smoke that high.

My concern with what brett was stating was more because I had my own process in my head.... smoke for X hours and then oven for Y hours in a crutch to finish and power thru the stall.

If you smoked at 275 for 4-6 hours on a brisket and then put it in the oven at 350-425 for another 4-6 hours I am pretty sure you would overcook and dry it out.

As for the crutch thing... for ribs it definitely changes the texture a bunch... helps with that fall-off-the-bone tenderness, but some people don't like that... I get it.

For pork butt or brisket you can still get a nice bark/crust and then the crutch is there to power you thru the stall and save you like 2-4 hours of cook time.... especially with pulled pork, you are shredding it anyways so the texture difference cannot be much. With brisket it makes it more tender.... I guess if you prefer it more firm.... but again on that big a cut of meat I question how different the texture of the meat becomes.

If you crutch the entire time you don't get bark/crust.... I understand that complaint.

 

[dennehy]

Personally if I am slow smoking I am not going that high, but I've heard the same things.... that some competition cooks smoke that high.

My concern with what brett was stating was more because I had my own process in my head.... smoke for X hours and then oven for Y hours in a crutch to finish and power thru the stall.

If you smoked at 275 for 4-6 hours on a brisket and then put it in the oven at 350-425 for another 4-6 hours I am pretty sure you would overcook and dry it out.

As for the crutch thing... for ribs it definitely changes the texture a bunch... helps with that fall-off-the-bone tenderness, but some people don't like that... I get it.

For pork butt or brisket you can still get a nice bark/crust and then the crutch is there to power you thru the stall and save you like 2-4 hours of cook time.... especially with pulled pork, you are shredding it anyways so the texture difference cannot be much. With brisket it makes it more tender.... I guess if you prefer it more firm.... but again on that big a cut of meat I question how different the texture of the meat becomes.

If you crutch the entire time you don't get bark/crust.... I understand that complaint.

Yeah, that would probably overcook it. It's all about getting it done to the correct doneness. Doesn't matter how long it takes to get there. If you cooked it at 350-425 for 6 hours, it's probably going to have an internal temp that is far too high. On the other hand, if you've ever had an underdone brisket it's even worse. The connective tissues doesn't break down and it's literally inedible. It's a demanding piece of meat.

Pork butt, to me, there's almost no way to really mess it up. It's used in hundreds of dishes across the world and cooked using numerous methods. I just cooked one on Saturday to make carnitas. The muscle itself has about four different kinds of meat (like dark and light meat on a chicken, kinda), is beautifully marbled, and you're right, you can steam it and it doesn't make a huge difference. Although I usually don't. You can finish it in the oven and it will cook fast at 350 and not really change the character of the meat after smoking.

 

[Ares]

Yeah, that would probably overcook it. It's all about getting it done to the correct doneness. Doesn't matter how long it takes to get there. If you cooked it at 350-425 for 6 hours, it's probably going to have an internal temp that is far too high. On the other hand, if you've ever had an underdone brisket it's even worse. The connective tissues doesn't break down and it's literally inedible. It's a demanding piece of meat.

Pork butt, to me, there's almost no way to really mess it up. It's used in hundreds of dishes across the world and cooked using numerous methods. I just cooked one on Saturday to make carnitas. The muscle itself has about four different kinds of meat (like dark and light meat on a chicken, kinda), is beautifully marbled, and you're right, you can steam it and it doesn't make a huge difference. Although I usually don't. You can finish it in the oven and it will cook fast at 350 and not really change the character of the meat after smoking.

Pork butt is great in that respect, very forgiving.

You gotta get above that like 198 internal temp to get it to really fall apart nicely though.

The positive with smoking a pork butt is the caramelized bark and smoke flavor.

But you can certainly do it in a variety of ways.... I did a BBQ rubbed pork butt in my oven at 225 for like 12 hours for Xmas year before last and then shredded it.

So we had pulled pork and Turkey for Xmas dinner

 

[brett05]

Pork butt is great in that respect, very forgiving.

You gotta get above that like 198 internal temp to get it to really fall apart nicely though.

The positive with smoking a pork butt is the caramelized bark and smoke flavor.

But you can certainly do it in a variety of ways.... I did a BBQ rubbed pork butt in my oven at 225 for like 12 hours for Xmas year before last and then shredded it.

So we had pulled pork and Turkey for Xmas dinner

We do ou pulled pork in a crock pot. Run some achote and a couple of onions inside. No bark, but pulled pork for tacos

 

[Ares]

We do ou pulled pork in a crock pot. Run some achote and a couple of onions inside. No bark, but pulled pork for tacos

Yeah you only get the bark in the smoker.

But let's be honest.... fall apart pork butt is just good almost regardless of how you do it or how you eat it

 

[dennehy]

You can get bark in the oven, just use a dry method and put it on a rack. Turn the over up high for about 30 minutes at the end. It just won't have a smoke ring.

When I make carnitas I could it to a little bark, pull it, and then fry it in a cast iron. Gives you lots of crunchy and crispy bit.

 

[Ares]

You can get bark in the oven, just use a dry method and put it on a rack. Turn the over up high for about 30 minutes at the end. It just won't have a smoke ring.

When I make carnitas I could it to a little bark, pull it, and then fry it in a cast iron. Gives you lots of crunchy and crispy bit.

I did a dry rub on mine and put it in a roasting pan, but the pan fills up with rendered fat.... I suppose I would need to remove it and put it in a dry pan at the end.

 

[brett05]

Yeah you only get the bark in the smoker.

But let's be honest.... fall apart pork butt is just good almost regardless of how you do it or how you eat it

I gotta admit, unless the taco is all bark, 100% correct, then again, I eat raw bacon