Official Jorge Soler Watch Thread

[Jntg4]

Rebuilding in a small market fails sometimes. In a big market, we can get the basis down, produce five or more good starters and then begin to fill in holes that exist when we are ready.

 

[daddies3angels]

I think you guys just read what you want when i post. You dont read whole post. I have agreed 100% that i understand what they doing. Im saying i disagree with it. I love how i get blasted for having opinion. I just think they could be doing it little different. While they are building up farm in the next 3-5 years they should be spending money on MLB club also. There was no reason why the couldnt sign guys to 1-3 year deals and make team competitive. Espicially with 2nd WC added. Thats all i have been saying. I was just arguing who ever thinks Ricketts is a great owner needs to realize he has done nothing ot help the MLB club now. We can only hope what he doing now can help in the future but as i have posted mulititple times now rebuilding doesnt work for 60% of teams. They have to rebuild on top of a rebuild. If it was so easy every bad team would do it.

 

[daddies3angels]

If you consider the state of the farm and the dysfunction within the organization (that was an oxymoron), there was nothing to rebuild. Right now the Cubs are in a build phase. Maybe later on they'll spend out the nose, but all signs point to this not being the right time to splurge.

All things being equal, if I were objective, I put some trust in the guys with multiple World Series rings and the owner whose family got rich by spending and investing money the right way.

i guess my definition of splurging is different from you guys. I feel with Cubs being a top 3 market in all of baseball they should have 150 mil + payroll every year. Im not saying go sign guys to 5+ year deals. I was saying sign guys 1-3 yr deals while building up farm. Then once young guys coming up show they are ready then spot will be open for them cause players contracts be expriring

 

[daddies3angels]

Rebuilding in a small market fails sometimes. In a big market, we can get the basis down, produce five or more good starters and then begin to fill in holes that exist when we are ready.

not just sometimes. 60% of the time it fails. Again Ricketts hasnt treated Cubs like big market 1 time. So you and i cant count on him ever spending money in the future. Your just guessing that they will spend money. But there is no proof that he will. While i have prove that he keeps cutting payroll year after year after year. This year Cubs on field payroll be around 90 mil. Thats a huge decrease from 148 mil from when he took over. Cubs have only 1 bad contract left. Demp and Z deals are done after this year. Soriano is done in 3 years. Again Cubs 1 of 9 teams not to have 1 contract for 2015 season and out of those 9 teams there only 1 team that is any good and thats SFG. Im assuming soon SFG will have a SP signed past 2015 season.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think you guys just read what you want when i post. You dont read whole post. I have agreed 100% that i understand what they doing. Im saying i disagree with it. I love how i get blasted for having opinion. I just think they could be doing it little different. While they are building up farm in the next 3-5 years they should be spending money on MLB club also. There was no reason why the couldnt sign guys to 1-3 year deals and make team competitive. Espicially with 2nd WC added. Thats all i have been saying. I was just arguing who ever thinks Ricketts is a great owner needs to realize he has done nothing ot help the MLB club now. We can only hope what he doing now can help in the future but as i have posted mulititple times now rebuilding doesnt work for 60% of teams. They have to rebuild on top of a rebuild. If it was so easy every bad team would do it.

If you're only going to snag an extra win or two with large contracts, you might as well play out your minor leaguers who can probably eke out that win for much cheaper. With better scouting and player evaluation, these guys aren't going to pay out the nose to turn a 70-win team into a 75-win team because that does nothing for you in the short run and potentially hurts you more in the long run.

 

[Rice Cube]

not just sometimes. 60% of the time it fails. Again Ricketts hasnt treated Cubs like big market 1 time. So you and i cant count on him ever spending money in the future. Your just guessing that they will spend money. But there is no proof that he will.

Where are you getting this 60% number?

 

[Jntg4]

not just sometimes. 60% of the time it fails. Again Ricketts hasnt treated Cubs like big market 1 time. So you and i cant count on him ever spending money in the future. Your just guessing that they will spend money. But there is no proof that he will.

There is no proof that the Cubs won't fold in 10 seconds either.

This Ricketts cheap shit is ridiculous, when the team is ready for some big name FA's and he's not putting money into building two stadiums, he will gives us any necessary resources to win a championship.

The Ricketts Cheap shit is ridiculous.

 

[daddies3angels]

Where are you getting this 60% number?

i posted an article while back ago.... Fan Graphs did research and found out that 60% of rebuilding teams have to rebuild over again. It did say that bigger market percentage goes down which gives me hope. BUT Ricketts hasnt shown me he treating Cubs like Big market in 3 years. Seems he wants to run team like middle market but expects fans to pay like big market. Im going to ask 1 question. Dont you feel cheated that your paying 2nd highest percentage in tickets prices but have middle market payroll?

 

[daddies3angels]

There is no proof that the Cubs won't fold in 10 seconds either.

This Ricketts cheap shit is ridiculous, when the team is ready for some big name FA's and he's not putting money into building two stadiums, he will gives us any necessary resources to win a championship.

The Ricketts Cheap shit is ridiculous.

Again you have no prove. Thats just you hoping as a Cub fan he does. You dont know if he spend money on players. All we know is that so far in 3 years that payroll has decreased about 45% since he been owner.

 

[Jntg4]

Again you have no prove. Thats just you hoping as a Cub fan he does. You dont know if he spend money on players. All we know is that so far in 3 years that payroll has decreased about 45% since he been owner.

Again, you have no "prove" that he is cheap, so just shut up about it, K?

 

[daddies3angels]

Again, you have no "prove" that he is cheap, so just shut up about it, K?

Actually i do. Payroll has been cut 45% since he taken over Cubs. Biggest contract he has given out is Theo 20 mil over 4 years. He spent more money on McDonalds parking lot then in FA this year. He had to borrow money from Dempster so Cubs could sign Nady. Cubs deferred a 1 yr deal on Pena. Have you ever heard a BIG MARKET team deferring money on a 1 yr deal? Cant afford to pay 10 mil in 1 year? There are your facts

 

[Rice Cube]

i posted an article while back ago.... Fan Graphs did research and found out that 60% of rebuilding teams have to rebuild over again. It did say that bigger market percentage goes down which gives me hope. BUT Ricketts hasnt shown me he treating Cubs like Big market in 3 years. Seems he wants to run team like middle market but expects fans to pay like big market. Im going to ask 1 question. Dont you feel cheated that your paying 2nd highest percentage in tickets prices but have middle market payroll?

Not really. I don't spend that much money to go to games. I know what you mean, of course, but it's purely entertainment and I don't have to spend money if I don't want to.

As for building the team, considering all the holes and the money required to fill all those holes (huh huh huh) I'm going to be on the Cubs' side here. I've looked at the FA list this offseason and after you get past guys like Pujols and Fielder (who were signed for way too damn much money) and CJ Wilson, nobody was really worth it. You're welcome to disagree, but throwing money at the MLB team wouldn't help as much as throwing money elsewhere to:

1. Improve player development and player facilities
2. Improve scouting and evaluation
3. Generate additional revenue so that when players worth the money do come up they can throw it at them

A lot of the guys who will eventually leave their former teams are probably not worth that kind of money and likely won't sign for 1-3 years as you suggested when they know some other idiot GM will give them more years and money. The guys who are worth it are more likely to receive extensions from their parent clubs. So the Cubs will be left with slim pickings. If that's the case, you put your efforts into building the farm and hoping that those guys come up faster than forecast. I realize that requires a bit of faith, but the plan to spend out the wazoo for the MLB squad also requires some faith that the players are actually available to sign.

 

[daddies3angels]

Not really. I don't spend that much money to go to games. I know what you mean, of course, but it's purely entertainment and I don't have to spend money if I don't want to.

As for building the team, considering all the holes and the money required to fill all those holes (huh huh huh) I'm going to be on the Cubs' side here. I've looked at the FA list this offseason and after you get past guys like Pujols and Fielder (who were signed for way too damn much money) and CJ Wilson, nobody was really worth it. You're welcome to disagree, but throwing money at the MLB team wouldn't help as much as throwing money elsewhere to:

1. Improve player development and player facilities
2. Improve scouting and evaluation
3. Generate additional revenue so that when players worth the money do come up they can throw it at them

A lot of the guys who will eventually leave their former teams are probably not worth that kind of money and likely won't sign for 1-3 years as you suggested when they know some other idiot GM will give them more years and money. The guys who are worth it are more likely to receive extensions from their parent clubs. So the Cubs will be left with slim pickings. If that's the case, you put your efforts into building the farm and hoping that those guys come up faster than forecast. I realize that requires a bit of faith, but the plan to spend out the wazoo for the MLB squad also requires some faith that the players are actually available to sign.

This just my opinion. I agree that small and medium market have to build team like that. I get that 100%. Just being a Cub fan in the 3rd largetst market and should be the top payroll in NL, i think team should be competitive every single year. I think its tough to ask Fans who have been waiting 103 years to be more patient while rebuilding when there 60% chance of it failing. Alot of older Cub fans dont have 3 + years to watch this team rebuild. I understand that 99% of us here are young. What about our fathers, grandparents that have been following Cubs for 30+ years.

 

[Rice Cube]

This just my opinion. I agree that small and medium market have to build team like that. I get that 100%. Just being a Cub fan in the 3rd largetst market and should be the top payroll in NL, i think team should be competitive every single year. I think its tough to ask Fans who have been waiting 103 years to be more patient while rebuilding when there 60% chance of it failing. Alot of older Cub fans dont have 3 + years to watch this team rebuild. I understand that 99% of us here are young. What about our fathers, grandparents that have been following Cubs for 30+ years.

The Cubs were pretty good until 1945 and then they sucked up until the 80s. Before the Tribune decided to crank up the value of the franchise artificially with massively backloaded contracts, Chicago was pretty much a small market team. There's plenty of historical data on why the Cubs fail and it has less to do with their market size than you think.

Joe Posnanski

If you have some of the smartest people in baseball (arguably) and they don't think spending out the ass is going to work out this year, then I guess you can still disagree with them, but you should at least figure out why it is that they don't think spending is the right way.

I guess if you really want to make an argument that spending big is the answer, take a look at the free agent list again and ask yourself who you would spend on and how much those expenditures would actually help the team now and 5 years down the line. It'd be great if they could have pulled in Fielder or Pujols, but you do have to be a bit more realistic.

 

[daddies3angels]

The Cubs were pretty good until 1945 and then they sucked up until the 80s. Before the Tribune decided to crank up the value of the franchise artificially with massively backloaded contracts, Chicago was pretty much a small market team. There's plenty of historical data on why the Cubs fail and it has less to do with their market size than you think.

Joe Posnanski

If you have some of the smartest people in baseball (arguably) and they don't think spending out the ass is going to work out this year, then I guess you can still disagree with them, but you should at least figure out why it is that they don't think spending is the right way.

I guess if you really want to make an argument that spending big is the answer, take a look at the free agent list again and ask yourself who you would spend on and how much those expenditures would actually help the team now and 5 years down the line. It'd be great if they could have pulled in Fielder or Pujols, but you do have to be a bit more realistic.

I agree Tribune jacked up the payroll to sell the team. There no disagreement there BUT it did work. Cubs made playoffs 2 years in row. They stopped making playoffs once Ricketts took team over and kept lowering payroll. Team has gone down hill the last 3 yrs which Ricketts took over. I keep hearing how bad shape team was in. He has 3 years and really didnt do anything till now. So part of that still his fault. Telling me if Cubs would have kept around 150 mil payroll in last 3 yrs they wouldnt have bene competitve? We dont know cause instead adding MLB talent when players contracts were done they just let the money come off th books.

 

[The Bandit]

I agree Tribune jacked up the payroll to sell the team. There no disagreement there BUT it did work. Cubs made playoffs 2 years in row. They stopped making playoffs once Ricketts took team over and kept lowering payroll. Team has gone down hill the last 3 yrs which Ricketts took over. I keep hearing how bad shape team was in. He has 3 years and really didnt do anything till now. So part of that still his fault. Telling me if Cubs would have kept around 150 mil payroll in last 3 yrs they wouldnt have bene competitve? We dont know cause instead adding MLB talent when players contracts were done they just let the money come off th books.

Show me the difference between 08 09 and 10 rosters. Please. Cuz I highly doubt we started to suck just cuz Ricketts showed up and owned the team. And I'm still waiting for your GM offseason mode post. I've asked multiple times what you would do considering your the major homer saying this is your opinion. I told you to back up what your saying by giving me the playoff contending team you said throwing money at would work, and yet I'm still waiting for it

 

[Jntg4]

Show me the difference between 08 09 and 10 rosters. Please. Cuz I highly doubt we started to suck just cuz Ricketts showed up and owned the team. And I'm still waiting for your GM offseason mode post. I've asked multiple times what you would do considering your the major homer saying this is your opinion. I told you to back up what your saying by giving me the playoff contending team you said throwing money at would work, and yet I'm still waiting for it

He wanted us to:
LF: Ryan Braun (trade Koyie Hill and prospects)
CF: Jacoby Ellsbury (trade Theo Epstein)
RF: Matt Kemp (trade Darwin Barney)
3B: Aramis Ramirez ($100 Million for 2 years to convince him to stay)
SS: Jose Reyes (trade that POS Castro)
2B: Troy Tulowitzki (trade Soto)
1B: Albert Pujols ($500 Million for 2 years) and Prince Fielder on bench ($400 Million for 2 years)
C: Yadier Molina (trade Clevenger)
SP: Roy Halladay (buy his contract), Tim Lincecum (buy his contract), C.C. Sabathia (buy his contract), Cliff Lee (buy his contract), Mark Buerhle ($300 Million for 2 years)

We're a BIG MARKET team, so we should SPEND UNTIL RICKETTS DEFAULTS ON HIS DEBT!!!!

 

[Jntg4]

This just my opinion. I agree that small and medium market have to build team like that. I get that 100%. Just being a Cub fan in the 3rd largetst market and should be the top payroll in NL, i think team should be competitive every single year. I think its tough to ask Fans who have been waiting 103 years to be more patient while rebuilding when there 60% chance of it failing. Alot of older Cub fans dont have 3 + years to watch this team rebuild. I understand that 99% of us here are young. What about our fathers, grandparents that have been following Cubs for 30+ years.

Cool story bro. Spending our asses off because some people are old and won't see us win if we do it the right way is asinine. You don't base how you run your business on some old people needing to be able to see it, so you build another expensive trainwreck and hope it works. That's really just an incredulously stupid argument.

 

[waldo7239117]

I'm lost ... is this thread a Jorge Soler thread?

 

[Rice Cube]

I'm lost ... is this thread a Jorge Soler thread?

Is he Dominican yet?