On this day in 1903...

[FirstTimer]

FWIW, I think Grange helped the Bears become more of a "national team" and helped establish a national-ish fan base that you can still see some remnants of today, than he really helped "save" the NFL. By the time the depression hit most of the benefits of the gains that Grange helped establish had worn off. The War hit and most of it was forgotten.

The NFL never really needed "saving", it exploded in the 50's because of TV and radio coverage, and then really took off in the 60's and 70's with the help of things like NFL Films.

 

[PAPABEAR77]

I'm sorry, but I am not following what you are trying to say. Grange was a bigger draw than the NFL. He helped put "PRO FOOTBALL" on the map, not just the NFL. I agree that Grange was a key figure in the early NFL days. I don't know if you can say he "saved" the NFL, because the NFL wasn't really "dying"...it just wasn't a major sports league. Grange ushered in an era of larger player contracts and franchise expansion when the NFL clearly wasn't ready to take that step...which killed one league (AFL) and greatly reduced the other league (NFL).

Basically, my point is that Grange had a much more complex impact on the NFL than simply "He saved the league!". I have facts on my side to justify my reasoning. I don't know what factual information you have on your side, but I also cannot comprehend what you are even trying to say here. It might be better if you simply stopped posting.

well at first I didn't say that and I don't know how you can say he almost killed it. he never owned it and he didn't start it ,it was just named after him to sell tickets

 

[PAPABEAR77]

Might I suggest using the Private Message feature?

that only for people who don't have the balls like most of you trolls

 

[FirstTimer]

Getting deep here, but Grange's greatest impact and biggest long-term benefit to the NFL was that he helped "weed out" the struggling franchises. Prior to the AFL's/Grange League's formation in 1926, the NFL would allow anyone to join their league. It was a mess, with numerous teams starting up and then disbanding at the end of the year. The NFL had 25 franchises going into the 1926 season...but the AFL bankrupted the weaker NFL teams and "raised the stakes" so to speak. In 1927, the NFL had 12 teams, and the NFL kind of stayed at 12 teams from 1927-1949, in which time the NFL started up a mandated league schedule and a common player draft. I don't know if that would have been possible had the NFL remained such a large, unstable organization.

FWIW, I think the Depression would have eventually done what Grange did.

 

[PAPABEAR77]

Getting deep here, but Grange's greatest impact and biggest long-term benefit to the NFL was that he helped "weed out" the struggling franchises. Prior to the AFL's/Grange League's formation in 1926, the NFL would allow anyone to join their league. It was a mess, with numerous teams starting up and then disbanding at the end of the year. The NFL had 25 franchises going into the 1926 season...but the AFL bankrupted the weaker NFL teams and "raised the stakes" so to speak. In 1927, the NFL had 12 teams, and the NFL kind of stayed at 12 teams from 1927-1949, in which time the NFL started up a mandated league schedule and a common player draft. I don't know if that would have been possible had the NFL remained such a large, unstable organization.

this is the political way of retracting your statement when you cant admit the wrong ones.

 

[KittiesKorner]

Who wants to post pics


-- tapatalkin'!

 

[modo]

Who wants to post pics


-- tapatalkin'!

 

[nvanprooyen]

my pastor says red grange is the sammy sosa of the AFL

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

Who wants to post pics


-- tapatalkin'!

Then remove them, but if someone quotes us report it and have the thread deleted?

In!

 

[KittiesKorner]

Keep it to yourself


-- tapatalkin'!

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

Stinker!

 

[PAPABEAR77]

True, but Grange helped/prodded the NFL to become a fully-organized league prior to the Depression, which helped the NFL survive the Depression. I think if the NFL was as disorganized in 1933 as they were in 1926, then its possible the league goes belly-up. JMO

oh so know your like on the Grange bandwagon good for you, must have done some research :clap:

 

[NCChiFan]

Incorrect. CC Pyle and Red Grange were listed as co-tenants in their 5-year lease to use Yankee Stadium. There is no way on earth that Pyle gets that lease without Red Grange's name being on it. The Grange League started when Pyle and Grange's NFL franchise application for a team in New York was denied. Pyle and Grange then formed their own league when they couldn't get into the existing NFL league.

I believe you are one of the worst posters on this board. You routinely have no idea what you are talking about, yet you are the always the first person to chime in with misguided criticism and incorrect information.

What I was referring to was this Rory, from Wikipedia:

"Grange was immediately courted by teams in the National Football League. The long-suffering Rochester Jeffersons made a last-ditch effort to sign Grange at a salary of $5,000 per game, but were unable to do so, a key factor in the team's demise.[12] The Chicago Bears ultimately signed him; player/manager George Halas agreed to a contract for a 19-game barnstorming tour, signed the day after Grange played his last college game. The contract earned Grange a salary and share of gate receipts that amounted to $100,000, during an era when typical league salaries were less than $100/game.[8] That 67-day tour is credited with legitimizing professional football and the NFL in the United States."

What you talked about happened afterwards in the AFL. I've read elsewhere that the NFL was in bad, even dire, straights until he was signed, filling stadiums saving the league. Which is also why I consider him as one of the greatest Bears players ever.

 

[Urblock]

This thread has legs.

 

[Ares]

This thread has legs.

Shut up!

 

[PAPABEAR77]

He saved the NFL by starting a rival football league!

Its not that complicated. I said that Grange saved the NFL by starting a rival league. PAPABEAR77 said "dude get your facts straight before you stick your foot in your mouth".

My facts were straight. They have been straight throughout this discussion. PAPABEAR77 was wrong.

1).your first statement was wrong he didn't start it he wasn't the owner Charles "C.C." Pyle, and Charles X. Zimmerman, Grange was vp but not owner that's how this started 2).and then you stated the grange was killing the league which is another false statement and now you are trying to backtrack like a politician and that is 3

 

[FirstTimer]

1).your first statement was wrong he didn't start it he wasn't the owner Charles "C.C." Pyle, and Charles X. Zimmerman, Grange was vp but not owner that's how this started

I don't know what world you live in but when someone is the VP of something, like for a example a new company, I would consider them as having either "started it" or "helping to start it".

It's like arguing John Adams wasn't a Founding Father in 1790 because he was ONLY Vice President

 

[NCChiFan]

This thread has legs.

If I'm involved, then Sexy legs.

 

[PAPABEAR77]

Everything you say continues to be wrong.

This isn't well-remembered, but Halas, the Bears & the NFL took a pounding in the media when they signed Red Grange in 1925, because Grange was still a student at U of I. The media illustrated this as the corruption of pro sports.

that has nothing to do with your first statement

 

[PAPABEAR77]

I don't know what world you live in but when someone is the VP of something, like for a example a new company, I would consider them as having either "started it" or "helping to start it".

It's like arguing John Adams wasn't a Founding Father in 1790 because he was ONLY Vice President

well in the real world owner means I am the man in charge.. and by definition....
owner
NOUN
1.a person who owns something:

vice president
NOUN
1.an official or executive ranking below and deputizing for a president.