One interesting thing about defensive performance in preseason

[Wild_x_Card]

Now, to answer your question, when I think back to my confidence in last years defensive line, I feel it was a more talented starting Dline.

Completely Asinine. Either you have a screw loose or a serious agenda.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Allen is atleast as good as Peppers. Almost 2 years younger right now so I give the edge to Allen.
Houston is versatile and can play multiple techniques. He is a great run stopper and above average pash rusher. He is an upgrade to Wootton.
Paea is the same player but healthy now. Can't be any worse than last year.
Melton was better than Ratliff (before the ACL injury). Doesn't matter because he missed 13 games so we didn't have his benefit.
Other than Collins, we had no one else depth wise last year. And he got hurt too.
This year we have Young and 2 high draft picks.
Oh and we don't have Shea playing DLine either.

 

[Mongo_76]

You didn't answer my question. Instead, you relied on your own conjecture and avoided everything. You keep coming back to Mel Tucker to try to prove that the D-line is worse this year than it was last year. Mel Tucker has nothing to do with the level of talent on the defensive line. And I would posit that your confidence is solely based on the performance of the defense the previous year. In 2013 we were coming off a great year. In 2014 we are coming off a terrible year.

It doesn't seem as though you are basing your opinion that the defensive line was downgraded on anything other than that. If you were, you would be able to provide objective facts that show you're correct. Instead, you rely on subjective indicators and cherry pick stats. We didn't have the same defensive line in 2013 as we did in 2012.

Wrong. I already posted the 2012 player stats versus the 2013 player stats. You chose to ignore.

I'll post again.


2012 Peppers = 11.5 sacks
2012 Melton = 7 sacks
2012 Wootton = 7 sacks
2012 Paea = 2.5 sacks


2013 Allen = 11.5 sacks
2013 Ratliff = 1.5 sacks
2013 Paea = 2 sacks
2013 Houston = 6 sack

Our 2013 starting Dline had much better numbers than our 2012 starting dline (this time last year).


If you can't comprehend that, sorry, I just don't know how to dumb it down any more.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Add in the depth of Young, Scott, Sutton and Ferguson looking decent as well and I'm right behind ya

Yeah Mongo would literally be the only one to think that. But he is entitled to his wrong opinion.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Wrong. I already posted the 2012 player stats versus the 2013 player stats. You chose to ignore.

I'll post again.


2012 Peppers = 11.5 sacks
2012 Melton = 7 sacks
2012 Wootton = 7 sacks
2012 Paea = 2.5 sacks


2013 Allen = 11.5 sacks
2013 Ratliff = 1.5 sacks
2013 Paea = 2 sacks
2013 Houston = 6 sack

Our 2013 starting Dline had much better numbers than our 2012 starting dline (this time last year).


If you can't comprehend that, sorry, I just don't know how to dumb it down any more.

Again, that is complete bullshit since you are only looking at 1 stat and because Melton got hurt and forced Wootton inside where he was a liability. Why can't you fucking see that?

 

[Bearin' Down]

Wrong. I already posted the 2012 player stats versus the 2013 player stats. You chose to ignore.

I'll post again.


2012 Peppers = 11.5 sacks
2012 Melton = 7 sacks
2012 Wootton = 7 sacks
2012 Paea = 2.5 sacks


2013 Allen = 11.5 sacks
2013 Ratliff = 1.5 sacks
2013 Paea = 2 sacks
2013 Houston = 6 sack

Our 2013 starting Dline had much better numbers than our 2012 starting dline (this time last year).


If you can't comprehend that, sorry, I just don't know how to dumb it down any more.

Did you read the rest of my post where I said you are cherry picking stats and using subjective indicators to prove your point? The 2013 d-line is what the 2013 d-line was. Period. They played. That's how you judge them.

You claim you are using other factors, but you only rely on sacks to back up your claim. Again, more proof that your full of shit. If you want to judge the 2013 d-line, you don't do it based on 2012, you do it on how they actually performed. It doesn't make a difference how they looked coming into 2013 because they actually played. This isn't rocket science, it's actually incredibly simple and basic.

I'm not inclined to re-post the numbers for our 2013 defensive line versus the 2013 numbers for our current defensive line, as they are already out there. Please stop relying on bullshit to formulate an argument.

 

[Pegger]

Certainly there's a linkage. But it's open to interpretation on what that is. For me, when I watch preseason if the OL or DL are getting blown back consistently that's probably going to be a problem in the regular season. If defenders are missing tackles this is probably going to be a problem in the regular season. If a QB is highly inaccurate that's probably going to be a problem in the regular season. If a FG kicker is shanking it that's probably going to be a problem in the regular season. If a running back fumbles the ball often that's probably going to be a problem in the regular season.

What I saw this preseason was:

+
An efficient passing offense.
An OL holding a solid pocket
A DL getting pressure w/ its front 4

-
kick/punt returns/coverage

I feel all of those are in those categories of translating to the regular season. That doesn't mean that I don't see problems (or strengths) in other areas. But I just don't see how a preseason performance can map those other observations to the regular season. As someone here said, we don't know what they were asking the LBs or DBs to do.

I'm hearing a lot of "the good things map over to the regular season and all the bad things don't". I think it is what it is. What has sucked in preseason? Defense and special teams have sucked. You can say this is just them trying things out, but the truth is the defense and special teams sucked last year, so it's more logical to draw the conclusion that it's 'more of the same'.

For me I don't dislike anyone. I'm not a Bears fan so Tucker is okay in my books. As an impartial observer of that side of the ball it's not very good.

 

[Mongo_76]

Did you read the rest of my post where I said you are cherry picking stats and using subjective indicators to prove your point? The 2013 d-line is what the 2013 d-line was. Period. They played. That's how you judge them.

You claim you are using other factors, but you only rely on sacks to back up your claim. Again, more proof that your full of shit. If you want to judge the 2013 d-line, you don't do it based on 2012, you do it on how they actually performed. It doesn't make a difference how they looked coming into 2013 because they actually played. This isn't rocket science, it's actually incredibly simple and basic.

I'm not inclined to re-post the numbers for our 2013 defensive line versus the 2013 numbers for our current defensive line, as they are already out there. Please stop relying on bullshit to formulate an argument.

Thanks for again proving that you have zero ability to comprehend.

I'll say it again. When I think about our starting Dline going into 2013, I was much more confident than I am with this on. They were proven with valid numbers and more talented.

I provided stats that support that confidence.

You not being able to get it isn't shocking.

I think you'll start to when the season starts.

 

[Mongo_76]

You claim you are using other factors, but you only rely on sacks to back up your claim. Again, more proof that your full of shit. If you want to judge the 2013 d-line, you don't do it based on 2012,

If that's the case, you can't judge this 2014 line based on what you saw in 2013.

You see how absolutely stupid that is?

(I doubt you do)

 

[Mongo_76]

I'm hearing a lot of "the good things map over to the regular season and all the bad things don't". I think it is what it is. What has sucked in preseason? Defense and special teams have sucked. You can say this is just them trying things out, but the truth is the defense and special teams sucked last year, so it's more logical to draw the conclusion that it's 'more of the same'.

For me I don't dislike anyone. I'm not a Bears fan so Tucker is okay in my books. As an impartial observer of that side of the ball it's not very good.

The fanboys will tell you we sucked in pre-season becsue Tucker was holding back.

Something he has apparently done for the last 7 years.

But don't worry, he's about to unleash his fury...

 

[iueyedoc]

Wrong. I already posted the 2012 player stats versus the 2013 player stats. You chose to ignore.

I'll post again.


2012 Peppers = 11.5 sacks
2012 Melton = 7 sacks
2012 Wootton = 7 sacks
2012 Paea = 2.5 sacks


2013 Allen = 11.5 sacks
2013 Ratliff = 1.5 sacks
2013 Paea = 2 sacks
2013 Houston = 6 sack

Our 2013 starting Dline had much better numbers than our 2012 starting dline (this time last year).


If you can't comprehend that, sorry, I just don't know how to dumb it down any more.

Your over-reliance and bastardization of stats would make even Remy shake his head.

 

[Nick80]

Dear Mongo,

-3.9

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Guys I am not as confident in Aaron Rodgers going into this year as I was last year because he had half the stats last year as he did in 2012!!

 

[iueyedoc]

Dear Mongo,

-3.9

Thanks for the poster grades. Until recently I have been unable to tell who is a valuable poster and who is a troll. The simple clarity of the red and green numbers helps me to understand the complexity that is CCS.

 

[SmellyFoot]

I'm hearing a lot of "the good things map over to the regular season and all the bad things don't". I think it is what it is. What has sucked in preseason? Defense and special teams have sucked. You can say this is just them trying things out, but the truth is the defense and special teams sucked last year, so it's more logical to draw the conclusion that it's 'more of the same'.

For me I don't dislike anyone. I'm not a Bears fan so Tucker is okay in my books. As an impartial observer of that side of the ball it's not very good.

I could have sworn that I listed a negative. And I don't know if Trestman was trying to win in the preseason or not. I hope not. Remember when Lovie said that the Bears lost because their opponent must have wanted it more? That pissed me off because that was a freaking game that actually did matter. If you're not trying your best to win when a game matters then something is effing wrong. But the preseason isn't like that. It really is hard to know what team is trying to do what. Some might try to win, some might try new things. After a couple more preseasons we should be able to predict what Trestman prefers to do.

I do get what you are saying. Plenty of homers bury their heads in the sand w/ the ol "My team wasn't really trying. Just wait until they do!". I mean, some used that excuse when we saw some crap offense under Lovie's era. And sure enough - more times than not they crapped the bed in the regular season.

Personally, I have my worries about Tucker. But I need to see this 2014 defense in regular season action before I can start to rail against the guy should it suck. If it makes you feel any better I still am worried about LB play in pass coverage and safety play. I won't lie about being worried. But I have to wait until next Sunday to know if this really is a problem.

 

[Nick80]

Dear iueyedoc,

+3.1

 

[Calabis]

He's been apologizing for him non-stop in just about every thread on here.

I wouldn't say apologizing, just waiting to correctly judge the man.

 

[Mongo_76]

I wouldn't say apologizing, just waiting to correctly judge the man.

There's 7 years of pathetic defenses with which to judge him by.

 

[Calabis]

There's 7 years of pathetic defenses with which to judge him by.

Yes because when he was in Cleveland/Jags there was a ton of talent(Old Bill was killing it to, when he was in Cleveland wasn't he?)......last year he was given a team without Urlacher, a defense he had to learn himself, then it was decimated by injuries...too many key components gone.....look at when he was hired, it was after the great Rod left us hanging, to run to Dallas, where he showed his ability to lead them to the worst D in the league(did he forget how to coach or was it lack of talent?).....again I'll wait to see what he can do....it didn't look to shitty when everyone was playing early on last season.

 

[Mongo_76]

Yes because when he was in Cleveland/Jags there was a ton of talent(Old Bill was killing it to, when he was in Cleveland wasn't he?)......last year he was given a team without Urlacher, a defense he had to learn himself, then it was decimated by injuries...too many key components gone.....look at when he was hired, it was after the great Rod left us hanging, to run to Dallas, where he showed his ability to lead them to the worst D in the league(did he forget how to coach or was it lack of talent?).....again I'll wait to see what he can do....it didn't look to shitty when everyone was playing early on last season.

Horse/cart.

Tucker has an inability to coach/teach players. You say they had no talent. I say he had talent but no ability to get anything out of it because he can't coach. Your argument ties to the excuses made for why the defense sucked last year: "we had no talent" is what people keep saying.

Wrong.

He took a very sold and talented D and turned them into complete crap.

He takes solid defenses and turns them into crap.