OS - What do you use?

LordKOTL

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That's the problem; Windows is basically being pulled in 3 different directions:  The gaming crowd, the "Casual" crowd (which the Windows store caters to), and the business crowd.</p>


 </p>


I personally think if they split all three off it would suck.  But I think if they had similar core funtionality with front-ends catered to what each market segment needs (the floofie Win8/8.1 for the "casual" crowd that plays angry birds and Candy Crush saga), a more in-depth interface for the PC gamer crowd,  and one that is fucntional bul able to be locked down for the business crowd, but with the ability to "leak over" (i.e. Office on a gaming PC), they should get a good market segment going forward.</p>
 

The Count Dante

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="222462" data-time="1393617015">
<div>


That's the problem; Windows is basically being pulled in 3 different directions:  The gaming crowd, the "Casual" crowd (which the Windows store caters to), and the business crowd.</p>


 </p>


I personally think if they split all three off it would suck.  But I think if they had similar core funtionality with front-ends catered to what each market segment needs (the floofie Win8/8.1 for the "casual" crowd that plays angry birds and Candy Crush saga), a more in-depth interface for the PC gamer crowd,  and one that is fucntional bul able to be locked down for the business crowd, but with the ability to "leak over" (i.e. Office on a gaming PC), they should get a good market segment going forward.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! WHOO!! <pantpant></p>


 </p>


 </p>


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!</p>


 </p>


Uh...ah....uh...</p>


 </p>


Whew!</p>


 </p>


I needed that.</p>
 

LordKOTL

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="222464" data-time="1393617100">
<div>


AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! WHOO!! <pantpant></p>


 </p>


 </p>


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!</p>


 </p>


Uh...ah....uh...</p>


 </p>


Whew!</p>


 </p>


I needed that.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


Okay, good point as long as Windows is the biggest OS for buisness out there, there's going to be people that are going to expose any security hole.</p>


 </p>


What I meant on that was the ability to protect a PC from it's own users--not from outside access.  You know the types--the ones who want their PC's with the coffee holders and the ones still looking for the "any" key.</p>
 

The Count Dante

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="222467" data-time="1393617286">
<div>


Okay, good point as long as Windows is the biggest OS for buisness out there, there's going to be people that are going to expose any security hole.</p>


 </p>


What I meant on that was the ability to protect a PC from it's own users--not from outside access.  You know the types--the ones who want their PC's with the coffee holders and the ones still looking for the "any" key.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


I was more really just poking fun. Once you go open source, it is REALLY hard to go back. I have zero care but for fun in the pc vs console, but windows vs *nix? I only see one thing Windows brings that *nix doesnt (as well): Exchange. And even that, Exchange is STUPID complicated under the hood. But for the end user, Exchange is the best. </p>


 </p>


But where I work, 90% linux shop, I wont even troubleshoot a windows issue, short of CIFS and even then only because I have to as a storage guy. </p>
 

supraman

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="222462" data-time="1393617015">
<div>


That's the problem; Windows is basically being pulled in 3 different directions:  The gaming crowd, the "Casual" crowd (which the Windows store caters to), and the business crowd.</p>


 </p>


I personally think if they split all three off it would suck.  But I think if they had similar core funtionality with front-ends catered to what each market segment needs (the floofie Win8/8.1 for the "casual" crowd that plays angry birds and Candy Crush saga), a more in-depth interface for the PC gamer crowd,  and one that is fucntional bul able to be locked down for the business crowd, but with the ability to "leak over" (i.e. Office on a gaming PC), they should get a good market segment going forward.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


As a PC gamer. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Just give us the same fucking interface we've had since Windows 95.</p>
 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="222386" data-time="1393602949">
<div>


I was fortunate to catch Linux from the ground up. Candidly, I would say that Linux is the one of the only reasons I have a career today. The best part about Linux as an emerging geek, is that you will learn SO much just getting basic tasks done. Windows is terrible IT learning platform since you arent learning why and how things work, just how to get them to work.</p>


 </p>


In Unix? Everything is a file... </p>


 </p>


You will also find much more freedom with Linux over Windows. </p>


 </p>


Install Python, as I believe perl is there by default with ubuntu. If not, get Perl too. </p>


VLC (defacto linux player)</p>


I use Gnome as my desktop, but for no reason other than I am old school and dont learn other desktop mgrs. </p>


Conky, never a bad idea.</p>


VINE for your windows emulation</p>


Vmware, free. If you are a Comp Sci</p>


Postgres or mysql, Database learnings, both are ANSI and you are never wrong learning ANSI relational dbs</p>


TLP if on a laptop</p>


Use vi for your editor. Train yourself. It sucks to start but it is the only editor that is included in every *nix ever made</p>


I use LibreOffice for my MS Office</p>


 </p>


My advice is do things the hard way, it will pay off. </p>


If you do something more than 4 times, find a way to script it. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


Some projects if you are programming in C, will require you to use VI just to avoid the potential spacing/formatting issues when uploading a C file you created in notepad or what have you.  Its a pain in the ass to learn when you are used to UI text editors, but yeah its worth learning.</p>


 </p>


and I use libre office on my home system too.</p>
 

LordKOTL

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Supra" data-cid="222474" data-time="1393619365">
<div>


As a PC gamer. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Just give us the same fucking interface we've had since Windows 95.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


What I meant by an In-depth interface is one the likes of XP and Windows 7 when it comes to fuxting with under the hood stuff--where getting into the control panel to tweak things worked be3tter than the PC setttings widget of Win8 and 8.1 (even though they retained the control panel).</p>


 </p>


I didn't mean anything like the home screen as an in-depth interface.  In fact, IMHO it's anything but. </p>
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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I use just about every OS frequently depending on what I am doing.   With work it is the Windows 7.x\8.x, MacOS, *nix's, server OS's of several types, mobile OS's, embedded OS's, custom OS's....   Home is pretty much Windows 8.x, Ubuntu, and iOS...though I do also "manage" a couple of home servers as well.</p>


 </p>


Before I get into my preferences I do want to make a couple of points:</p>


 </p>


(1) Windows tried the variations for work, home, and entertainment.   It sucked and helped produce things like Windows ME and Vista.   They figured out that was not the best approach, and pretty much 7 and 8 are designed with all three in mind, but only the purpose is active with the foundation the same. </p>


 </p>


 </p>


(2) I grew up on Apple ][, Commodore, DOS, and UNIX (did some consulting in HS and this is where I got to learn it).   I got into Linux before dealing with Windows 3.1\95.  I have a history and love of "Li"nix OSes, but have a problem with how long it has taken for them to get to where they are.  In the late 80's some of the real UNIX systems far outpaced what the free *nixes were doing since they were mired in their own stupid games...and for some realizing they were only going to get bragging rights and took their talents elsewhere for cash.  </p>


 </p>


 </p>


(3) Following on (2), I love Open-source and Open-source is a really good idea, that, unfortunately, still suffers from the sins of the past and really is most effective in server environments.  On the "desktop side" they are only effective if they have click-ads for funding, or if they have a Windows or Mac version they can make money from.  </p>


 </p>


Mozilla's issues is a large indicator of how open-source initiative can die a slow death, and Oracle is gunning to curtail it's databases running on open-source *nix's.  And that is a large part of the install base, according to Gartner, and why they are targeting it as a way make money.   This is not doom and gloom, as it will survive, but I think the OS side is going to become a pocket OS and mobile.  </p>


 </p>


It is obvious that mobile will outpace and be the dominant when it comes to open-source OS's.</p>


 </p>


 </p>


(4) Apple, without a doubt, is strategically getting rid of the Mac OS and making everything (even a desktop pc), be iOS.   This is not a bad thing due to what the iOS has done to the industry that is already rippling across the board (see (6) below).</p>


 </p>


 </p>


(5) On desktops, Windows has been the way to go primarily due to the wealth of 3rd party applications and direct and seemless integration into many, many things.   They may have played the "game" to get the foothold they have, but it did mature the entire industry...though longer than it should of (too bad BeOS or OS\2 never took off and Jobs was canned from Apple when he was because Jobs was starting to target business at the time as Apple had the largest install base, but a low percentage in business, and he saw that was the next market.  All three had high security, application separation (can't see you unless you let me), awesome memory management, UNIX de-integration of subsystems, and were "light and optimized" OS's).   </p>


 </p>


Microsoft knows that the model that built them is dying, and have known that for a long time and tried to build a mobile OS market...but well before the tech, needs, and money was there.  They are going retain their sever and email side (because those are pretty solid for their specific uses and installation base), but they are going to change into a cloud based solution and services company.   That is very much obvious based on what Windows 8 is at it's core....a much, much lighter Windows OS with very high security and web integration (which one can argue the Netscape debate in the 90's stalled this), and $12 billion put into web based applications and data storage.  Office 365 is none to shabby and neither is the free version....and it works on all OS's even iOS.    This integration into free storage, and no MS scanned for "targeting", of data (yea you Google), for most users is seamless, very divine, and shows what that next model of storage can be for the majority of users.   In the business world, it is easy to dump most of the datacenter and host it with MS or IBM at a much cheaper cost than maintaining it yourself (one of the studies I have been part of at our work).  Best part from the business standpoint is you own your data, and they just host and secure it (both encrypt on the disk).</p>


 </p>


 </p>


(6) The success of the iOS and Apple store has greatly reduced the laziness of programming (hey there is a blazing fast processor and tons of memory in the common system, and to meet the deadline we won't spend the time or money to optimize), and has forced that strong optimization and lightness of applications that existed when I was first learning to be a programmer.  </p>


 </p>


This has rippled to many, many companies and the products they have released (hell Windows 7 runs better than Windows XP on PC's when Windows XP came out, for example), and we are seeing this with a large chunk of the 4000 desktop applications we support.</p>


 </p>


The other ripple is that a light "mobile" OS is on the cusp of being able to what the business and normal user world needs in a much smaller and portable package.   It is so much easier now to use something, like an iPhone, and connect some type of display, maybe add a Bluetooth keyboard, and presto I have a portable desktop.    Yes, things like gamming and higher end engineering and graphs need more beef (primarily from the video card), but those are the very small pockets of the computing industry at this point. </p>


 </p>


 </p>


 </p>


(7) My preference?   At home I have Windows 8.1 as my main PC and *nix OS's running in VMs (using Microsoft's Virtual Machine since it is free and has tighter integration to the OS than VMware (without having to pay the big bucks).   Windows 8.1 is a vastly improved Windows OS, in terms of the over all performance, security, and stability (I struggled to type that, really, but what it does to help reduce the easy holes of skimming data from local memory for bad apps and web pages, is outstanding and genius).   However, I don't do any of my banking, etc through the Windows machine (yet), but through the *nix VM's, because I have a better understanding and control over what I can do with the OS. </p>


 </p>


However, the Windows 8 side has most of the general applications I use that I have not found open-source apps that are remotely equivalent.  However, however, I have found that I do many more things with my iOS or Android devices since there are easier apps and I can send the display to any TV or monitor in my house.  Wife talking too much in the living room, just pick up that iPad (walk and still work), and go the bedroom and use the TV there...etc.   Plus both OSes have vastly improved in being able to remotely connect to my main PC or VM's (for the WoW raid nights), with very good performance.   The wave of the future.</p>


 </p>


So maybe my preference depends on my needs at the moment....which after that novel seems like a "surprise ending" that leaves you empty and with many questions...so I leave you with Kyle Turris to ponder.</p>


 </p>


 </p>


HF50....err BiTB50</p>
 

phranchk

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I use ChromeOS....

I actually switched over to Mac about 2 years ago. I do like it for the most part, but I absolutely loathe how it handles file structures and storage. This is especially true with iPhoto. I avoid using that like the plague. Trying to track down a picture on the hard drive that you imported using iPhoto is nearly impossible without first opening iPhoto and finding i there first. It's not a whole lot better with media either.

I still like Windows better. It's easier for me to find my way around that environment. I've used Ubuntu in the past as well. I was able to get around ok, but my programming knowledge isn't that strong so I kind of gave up on it.
 

supraman

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I dont buying that conventional computing is dying. Yes mobile is the fastest growing and PC growth is stagnant but it isnt dying. There are just going to be things the PC is going to be better at. I like my cell phone and I like the interface but **** I hate trying to browse the net on it without mobile websites.</p>
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-time="1393638045" data-cid="222499" data-author="Supra">

I dont buying that conventional computing is dying. Yes mobile is the fastest growing and PC growth is stagnant but it isnt dying. There are just going to be things the PC is going to be better at. I like my cell phone and I like the interface but **** I hate trying to browse the net on it without mobile websites.</p></blockquote>
Unfortunately many of the major players have already cashed out, and without other services or other products to offer the big three left (HP (who is in process of cashing out), Dell, and Lenovo), would not be able to float a PC business anymore. Margins are too tight. Worse is that the major software and OS vendors are dead set on changing to a larger growing market that has already surpassed the declining PC base. PC will become very niche in less than 7-10 years.

The off-set, and the killer app, will be the one(s) that make using other interfaces with other inputs than the onscreen mobile keyboard, easy and effective...which is pretty much here.

If out of anything laptops will "finally" become the desktop....as I have been hearing it will do for almost 17 years.
 

LordKOTL

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BiscuitInTheBasket2in17" data-cid="222511" data-time="1393645864">
<div>


Unfortunately many of the major players have already cashed out, and without other services or other products to offer the big three left (HP (who is in process of cashing out), Dell, and Lenovo), would not be able to float a PC business anymore. Margins are too tight. Worse is that the major software and OS vendors are dead set on changing to a larger growing market that has already surpassed the declining PC base. PC will become very niche in less than 7-10 years.


The off-set, and the killer app, will be the one(s) that make using other interfaces with other inputs than the onscreen mobile keyboard, easy and effective...which is pretty much here.


If out of anything laptops will "finally" become the desktop....as I have been hearing it will do for almost 17 years.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


I honestly don't doubt that PC's will become niche.  But that being said, I don't think "mobile" solutions will make it go away from business either.  So far there's no a really good mobile solution for graphic design, CAD/CAM, GIS, and the like.</p>


 </p>


Given the money invested in those fields, I can see the actual workstation possibly dying when the cost of a laptop that can match the raw "horsepower" of a workstation becomes a non-factor for employees who are as chained to the desks as they come (Right now for my work, the cost of a comparable laptop with the horsepower to match a workstation is on average of about $2000 more, and many departments won't justify that cost for "chained to the desk" employees).</p>


 </p>


As long as those fields require a workstation or laptop, "desktop computing" won' go away even if it becomes niche.  Right now, fully mobile computing has made no real inroads in those fields. </p>
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="222631" data-time="1393873438">
<div>


I honestly don't doubt that PC's will become niche.  But that being said, I don't think "mobile" solutions will make it go away from business either.  So far there's no a really good mobile solution for graphic design, CAD/CAM, GIS, and the like.</p>


 </p>


Given the money invested in those fields, I can see the actual workstation possibly dying when the cost of a laptop that can match the raw "horsepower" of a workstation becomes a non-factor for employees who are as chained to the desks as they come (Right now for my work, the cost of a comparable laptop with the horsepower to match a workstation is on average of about $2000 more, and many departments won't justify that cost for "chained to the desk" employees).</p>


 </p>


As long as those fields require a workstation or laptop, "desktop computing" won' go away even if it becomes niche.  Right now, fully mobile computing has made no real inroads in those fields. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


 </p>


I mentioned the higher end stuff above....however there are high-end workstation level laptops already available.  What they lack is the better Vid cards and ability to have high amounts of fast storage within. </p>


 </p>


We recently did a ton of benchmarking due to some projects and future planning.   We found that Dell's M6800 benchmarked as well as their T3600 series for all of the major engineering\CAD\Graphics\Video stuff.   Where is lacked is when we dropped a $2k more into the video card on the T3600....but that was only an improvement on the things that did intensive 3D graphics or motion video. </p>


 </p>


The i7 processor is an impressive beast no matter the OS we threw at it with the software benchmarking, and showed that the vid card was really the difference for things that truly were doing massive processing.   What we found more interesting is that i7 was not that far behind the Xeons with high end rendering when that was the only difference in the benchmarks.</p>


 </p>


Also, another game changer on the high-end side will be distributed or off-loaded GPU processing.   It already exists, but still not as cost effective for smaller to mid operations.   But it is not too far out of reach in price by going with either an in-house or hosted solution.  For us, and the 243 SolidEdge\SolidWorks\CAD computers we have those solutions would add about another $150 per unit at this time.  When we checked 3 years ago it was $790.</p>


 </p>


 </p>


Perception and some more "microization" of the powerful chips (CPU\GPU) is why it will make it take 5-7 years to flush out.   Improve the Windows OS performance (lighten the OS), and the atom processor does not do too bad for the usual day to day work. </p>
 

The Count Dante

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Supra" data-cid="222499" data-time="1393638045">
<div>


I dont buying that conventional computing is dying. Yes mobile is the fastest growing and PC growth is stagnant but it isnt dying. There are just going to be things the PC is going to be better at. I like my cell phone and I like the interface but **** I hate trying to browse the net on it without mobile websites.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


I think for the masses it is dying. Ok, dying is a strong word, but the market share of PCs has gone down quite significantly. Even for me, if I am not on call, I dont even turn my machine on. I just use the ipad air. My parents? Both have tablets instead. For the masses, I dont see one thing thus far that a PC will do better than a tablet.</p>


 </p>


I think you will see tablets become the new home PCs.  </p>
 

The Count Dante

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PCs will always have a place. I just dont think your average home user will be that market. 2013 has been the worst decline for PCs thus far. If it wasnt for the need to be able to log into work for on call, I wouldnt have a "PC" of any kind. </p>
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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Btw, if you guys want to see an example of offloading the GPU processing in a cloud based application delivery environment look up Mainframe2.  Been on the beta (which is now closed to new peeps), since November and things like 3D-Studio Max and FinalCut pro freaking fly on a chromebook.   It is some really impressive shit.</p>
 

LordKOTL

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="222715" data-time="1393956544">
<div>


I think for the masses it is dying. Ok, dying is a strong word, but the market share of PCs has gone down quite significantly. Even for me, if I am not on call, I dont even turn my machine on. I just use the ipad air. My parents? Both have tablets instead. For the masses, I dont see one thing thus far that a PC will do better than a tablet.</p>


 </p>


I think you will see tablets become the new home PCs.  </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


 </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="222716" data-time="1393957059">
<div>


PCs will always have a place. I just dont think your average home user will be that market. 2013 has been the worst decline for PCs thus far. If it wasnt for the need to be able to log into work for on call, I wouldnt have a "PC" of any kind. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


I don't disagree with this.  But I do think that the few of us still running a HTPC, or PC gamers, will still have PC's in a niche application.  For work, again, CAD/GIS/Graphic design will still need workstation-class laptops, if not a workstation proper (I think eventually the cost differental erosion will make even the most technologicaly backwards companies make that move). Even with distributed computing, without a huge pipeline that would rival the speed/latency of your average frontside bust it would be lost man-hours of work wating for a remote "supercomputer" to finish a calculation task.</p>


 </p>


For your "Average Jackoff" (© Nathan Explosion, from Dethkolk), I can see tablets being the wave of the future. My Dad and my aunt both find the touch-interface of their laptop and All-in-one PC much more intuitive than the standard windows interface with a mouse/keyboard (Granted, the last time my dad was "aheead of the technological curve" in computing was when the 8" floppy was introduced).  Hell, even though my wife needs a PC-level tablet (a.k.a. surface pro), she still prefers the tablet to her old beast of a laptop.</p>


 </p>


It's just like the photography Film vs. Digial argument.  Film is still used in some niche applications--even commercially (especially landscape photos), but for even the "prosumer" level, everything is Digital.</p>
 

supraman

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Deadliest Man Alive" data-cid="222716" data-time="1393957059">
<div>


PCs will always have a place. I just dont think your average home user will be that market. 2013 has been the worst decline for PCs thus far. If it wasnt for the need to be able to log into work for on call, I wouldnt have a "PC" of any kind. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Exactly they will always have a place. And on the business side. I never worked in the tech industry but I did work for the largest healthcare provider in the states. Qtrly revenue of 7 billion. So they had money, we had desktops at the supply center. The hospitals had a ton of laptops but that was for the nurses and the like.</p>


 </p>


Unless the laptop and desktop become equally priced I think you are always going to have a business side desktop or maybe see it go back to terminals. Where I worked at and the job I did there simply was no justification for anything but a desktop.</p>


 </p>


Small businesses want the cheapest solution to do what they need to do and that is still desktop typically.</p>


 </p>


The home user, outside of gamers yeah they really don't need a desktop so they are a declining market. But PC gaming is still big and I can't speak for all PC gamers but for me, you could not convince me to give up my desktop for a gaming laptop. Though I admit to being biased and I don't care for laptops/netbooks or cell phone/tablets, for at home usage.</p>
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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To get a peek at the open beta of one of the products I am talking about:  http://www.mainframe2.com/infographic.     Right now it has to be an HTML5 based browser, which IE11, Chrome, and Firefox 17+ can handle.   Open beta apps are here http://www.mainframe2.com/live.   Unfortunately they have MS Paint and blender up now rather than Photoshop...but it does change from time to time.</p>
 

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