OT: Astros cheating?

[fatbeard]

You’ve never heard the phrase all press is good press?

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[Castor76]

Agree with the general consensus that the Cardinals and Astros need to be punished but
wonder if there are other teams underwater doing the same thing?

As with all cheating in sports, the greater sin is getting caught. If they stripped Houston of their 1st round pick for even the next 3 seasons it would put a sizeable hurt on them.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

Agree with the general consensus that the Cardinals and Astros need to be punished but
wonder if there are other teams underwater doing the same thing?

There probably are other teams doing it, but we have actual former players coming clean and acknowledging they cheated and had to come clean. If that doesn’t prompt the MLB to do something about it, well I just hope they never pretend to care about stealing signs ever again.

 

[Castor76]

There probably are other teams doing it, but we have actual former players coming clean and acknowledging they cheated and had to come clean. If that doesn’t prompt the MLB to do something about it, well I just hope they never pretend to care about stealing signs ever again.

I always hate it when fans of the caught team say, "Well, everybody's cheating, so what's the big deal?" The big deal is we can believe all the other teams are cheating. We know your team is. It's why I say Brady and Belichik can never be in the discussion of greatest of all time at their jobs. It's been confirmed that they cheated in 3 of their SB wins. JMO.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

14:13

 

[Jack Lantern]

They sure were..

 

[Castor76]

Depending on where you fall on the scale of is this worse or not worse than the Cardinals stealing scouting info I think determines what penalty the Astros should get. The Cards got a 2M fine and lost 2 1st rounders. I would bring the hammer down. At least a 5M fine and the loss of multiple picks for multiple years, like 1st, 3rd, and 5th rounders either this year or next if the investigation takes that long, followed by 1st and 3rd the year after and the 1st the year after that.

 

[fatbeard]

Depending on where you fall on the scale of is this worse or not worse than the Cardinals stealing scouting info I think determines what penalty the Astros should get. The Cards got a 2M fine and lost 2 1st rounders. I would bring the hammer down. At least a 5M fine and the loss of multiple picks for multiple years, like 1st, 3rd, and 5th rounders either this year or next if the investigation takes that long, followed by 1st and 3rd the year after and the 1st the year after that.

To me, the loss of draft picks is not an immediately impactful enough punishment. That punishes the organization 3-5 years from now, when it *might* actually feel the effects of not having those prospects. And a fine of 5mil is, frankly, nothing for an organization worth literally billions of dollars. That's like two games' worth of gate revenue.

Whatever Manfred decides, it has to be something that significantly affects the Astros' ability to compete in at least 2020. In college football, the "death penalty" typically includes the loss of participation in bowl games for a period of years. Since the Astros' cheating appears to have been "institutional", in that the players, coaches, and the FO were all aware of it, and it occurred during the MLB playoffs, what if the Astros were banned from postseason competition for a period of three years? That would be a real body blow to being able to retain their own players and attract free agents. It would affect the entire organization, which is appropriate in this case: Player cheats? Punish the player. Team cheats? Punish the team. Organization cheats? Punish the entire organization.

 

[Castor76]

To me, the loss of draft picks is not an immediately impactful enough punishment. That punishes the organization 3-5 years from now, when it *might* actually feel the effects of not having those prospects. And a fine of 5mil is, frankly, nothing for an organization worth literally billions of dollars. That's like two games' worth of gate revenue.

Whatever Manfred decides, it has to be something that significantly affects the Astros' ability to compete in at least 2020. In college football, the "death penalty" typically includes the loss of participation in bowl games for a period of years. Since the Astros' cheating appears to have been "institutional", in that the players, coaches, and the FO were all aware of it, and it occurred during the MLB playoffs, what if the Astros were banned from postseason competition for a period of three years? That would be a real body blow to being able to retain their own players and attract free agents. It would affect the entire organization, which is appropriate in this case: Player cheats? Punish the player. Team cheats? Punish the team. Organization cheats? Punish the entire organization.

I don't disagree that it should be harsh. I said 5M because of the precedent of 2M with what the Cards did. I think you could even go so far as to ban the manager and GM forever. Post season ban probably wouldn't fly.

 

[SilenceS]

I see little happening. MLB wants this to go away and now other teams are being talked about including Brewers.

They will get a fine and some form of draft pick punishment and nothing more IMO. I just sont see it with MLB.

 

[SilenceS]

Also, I found it funny with Yelich going aftwer Darvish on twitter. Darvish just explained why he stepped off and Yelich was so defensive. Sounds like Braun when he def. never took the roids

 

[Castor76]

The max penalty a team can receive money wise is 2M. So lots of draft picks needs to be a big part of it. Hinch should be suspended at least a year, if not banned outright.

 

[Castor76]

Some interesting stats. From 2014-2019 the Astros had a drastic reduction in SO% in between 2016 and 2017. It ticked back up in 2018 and 2019, but still stayed well below where the where from 2014-16.
---------------Total ------- Home/Away
2014 SO% 26.47%-- 27.50%/25.48%
2015 SO% 25.50%-- 26.45%/24.63%
2016 SO% 26.19%-- 27.33%/25.08%
2017 SO% 19.37%-- 18.59%/20.10%
2018 SO% 21,95%-- 21.37%/22.53%
2019 SO% 20.77%-- 21.17%/20.40%

The other interesting thing is the flip in that they suddenly had a lower SO% at home versus the road except for 2019.

 

[Raskolnikov]

IMO if proven guilty. Removal of 1st round pick for next 5 years. That will punch them where it will matter.

Yeah...I'm sure they will cry themselves to sleep trying to decide who to keep in the best line-up of the next decade.

I'd like to know how they boost rotational velocity in their pitchers. They are like they Patriots and push every angle and advantage they can, some of it is cheating, some of it is pushing sport forward. Thin line between business and war.

I think because other teams do similar you can't drop the nuclear options...its a heh...reminder...don't do this but lets not change the course of history. The reasons they dismantled the Dodgers go far beyond this.

 

[beckdawg]

I don't think it'll be much worse than what atlanta got hit for IFA stuff if even that tbqh. Not saying that's "right" but MLB doesn't really go super punitive ever.

 

[anotheridiot]

"someone needs to join pete rose on the banned for life list" Biggs time.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

If these allegations are true which it’s looking like they are, is this more egregious than any other form of cheating we have seen in a while not called bountygate? I hope the Astros get the fucking death penalty.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I always hate it when fans of the caught team say, "Well, everybody's cheating, so what's the big deal?" The big deal is we can believe all the other teams are cheating. We know your team is. It's why I say Brady and Belichik can never be in the discussion of greatest of all time at their jobs. It's been confirmed that they cheated in 3 of their SB wins. JMO.

I agree to an extent, but there is also the other side that the punishment always seems to come down on the "winners."

The focus is on the winners, and the bitterness is toward the winners, and they end up getting caught and punished due to the microscope.

 

[anotheridiot]

People knew this was happening during the playoffs 2 years ago. Maybe the question should be why has manfried taken so long to do something about it, allowing them two more playoff runs without punishment.

 

[Castor76]

People knew this was happening during the playoffs 2 years ago. Maybe the question should be why has manfried taken so long to do something about it, allowing them two more playoff runs without punishment.

I would guess it was the same as with other punishments in that they were told to stop, they didn't and now the punishment must come.