OT: Browns RB Trent Richardson traded to the Colts for 1st rd pick

[Jailbreak]

Hard to judge this trade imo. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, but I don't think it was risky on Cleveland's part. It does say something about how the front office has evaluated recent top picks.

 

[onebud34]

There are 11 men on offense and there can only be 1 QB, so is your arguement that the Browns shouldn't have taken a RB until they had a proven QB? I might agree with that piece of your arguement. The idea that any RB that isn't Adrian Peterson isn't worthy of a 1st round pick is stupid on the other hand. I have already listed plenty of other 1st round RBs that were more than worthy of being taken before some random WR/TE/DB/ etc.

The NFL wants to devalue the RB position not because its not important to the game but because they don't like having to pay young players what they are truly worth, they think they can avoid paying young men to sacrifice their body to the abuse of being a RB and not have to pay them 1st round money to do it. YES running backs have a shorter shelf life than a WR, but if you are the one carrying the ball 25-30 times a game and get smashed by 250-300lb men each time you deserve every penny you get.

Wha?

Since the NFL is moving to a passing league, they are devaluing the RB position?

I don't think so...RB's just have to be versatile these days, which can actually be found in the 2nd and latter rounds.

 

[Xplosive]

This conspiracy to rob HBs of their money you have concocted is just ridiculous.

You act like its not real that running the ball has become a supplement to a passing first league.

Its about as ridiculous as you are naive to think its a conspiracy. Offensive balance for playoff teams since 2000 is 46 percent run and 54 percent pass, and many of the teams run at higher ratio like Seattle @ 56%, San Fran 53%, Minnesota 50%...etc

So if the running back carries the ball over 40% of the time how can you say its just a supplement? Most teams have 4-5 WR and 2 TE's sets meanwhile ONE RB carries the ball over 40% of the time and catches a lot of passes too. The RB is MORE valuable not less valuable.

 

[Xplosive]

Wha?

Since the NFL is moving to a passing league, they are devaluing the RB position?

I don't think so...RB's just have to be versatile these days, which can actually be found in the 2nd and latter rounds.

People really need to figure out what position they believe and stick to it. Is the NFL moving to a read option league which means running the ball more or an all passing league? RBs have been getting more versatile ever since Walter Payton was a one man show. IF more RBs are to be in the mold of Marshall Faulk and LaDanian Tomlinson I don't see how that means they aren't worth a 1st round pick.

 

[Nick80]

Still trying to win in this thread are you? Good.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I just want to say on record....that this is like trading Marshal Faulk.....it can't be justified. Its wrong, its stupid, and congratualtions, you just put the equivalent of Emmit Smith and John Elway on the same team.

you all look stupid riding the media jock on a passing league. You still gotta run..

Ravens, 49ers, Houston, Patriots...........they all run!! all of em. Even the Packers trying to run more. The game will always be about balance, and if you don't have it, go with what your good at. (Vikings)

Defense and running game will never die. But Trent Richardson can be stopped with 8 in the box. Not with 6 gentlement, not with 6

 

[Xplosive]

Still trying to win in this thread are you? Good.

 

[onebud34]

People really need to figure out what position they believe and stick to it. Is the NFL moving to a read option league which means running the ball more or an all passing league? RBs have been getting more versatile ever since Walter Payton was a one man show. IF more RBs are to be in the mold of Marshall Faulk and LaDanian Tomlinson I don't see how that means they aren't worth a 1st round pick.

Because they can often be found in the 2nd or latter rounds. Why spend a 1st on a RB, when you can draft a DE, DT, CB, TE, LT or QB in the 1st?

Of course there are those can't miss RB classes like the 05 draft...

AP is the exception...and even he fell in the draft due to injury concerns

 

[Nick80]

I just want to say on record....that this is like trading Marshal Faulk.....it can't be justified. Its wrong, its stupid, and congratualtions, you just put the equivalent of Emmit Smith and John Elway on the same team.

you all look stupid riding the media jock on a passing league. You still gotta run..

Ravens, 49ers, Houston, Patriots...........they all run!! all of em. Even the Packers trying to run more. The game will always be about balance, and if you don't have it, go with what your good at. (Vikings)

Defense and running game will never die. But Trent Richardson can be stopped with 8 in the box. Not with 6 gentlement, not with 6

Over reaction of the day.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Because they can often be found in the 2nd or latter rounds. Why spend a 1st on a RB, when you can draft a DE, DT, CB, TE, LT or QB in the 1st?

Of course there are those can't miss RB classes like the 05 draft...

AP is the exception...and even he fell in the draft due to injury concerns

Trent Richardson is can't miss, the Browns don't know how to use him or anyone.

 

[Bearly]

You are talking about contracutal and CBA terms. There is no such thing as semantics when these terms reflect how you account for it.

If I sign a 10 year contract now then calling something a signing bonus means I MUST pay the bonus out upfront and allocate it over 10 years for salary cap purposes. If I instead say there is an option bonus in year 5 then I MUST pay that option bonus out upfront in year 5 and allocate it over the remaining 5 years. It is not semantics because calling it an option bonus means I don't have to pay out real money in Year 1 nor do I have to allocate anything to the salary cap in years 1 -4.

This really isn't a big deal. You said SB and I simply clarified by saying a SB is a specific term with a specific meaning that has to be accounted for in a very specific way. If all you said was I agree but I was using SB interchangeably with the other types of bonus then no big deal. Instead you acted like I was trying to call you out or something when I was merely making that point because I know people are confused by the distinction all the time because I have had similar discussion in salary cap threads about it and there is always confusion when it comes to the differences between a SB, Roster Bonus, etc.

Lets talk context. Here's my original statement. simple an succinct. "Cap may have had something to do with this as far as the Browns are concerned. Not having his salary on the books makes it easier to accelerate his bonus and free up space for next years harvest." Why would anybody think I was talking about anything but cap money as opposed to payout? Why did we need to go further? Sure seemed like folks were filling in their own details.

 

[onebud34]

Trent Richardson is can't miss, the Browns don't know how to use him or anyone.

It's contractual on their part

 

[Xplosive]

Because they can often be found in the 2nd or latter rounds. Why spend a 1st on a RB, when you can draft a DE, DT, CB, TE, LT or QB in the 1st?
Of course there are those can't miss RB classes like the 05 draft...
AP is the exception...and even he fell in the draft due to injury concerns

I know the thread is getting long so let me repeat this for those who keep making misguided claims...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



To further my point on 1st round RBs lets look at some of the Starting RBs taken in the 1st versus the claim you can get them anywhere in the draft. As I made the list the first thing that was obvious was that there hasn't been a good RB draft since 2008. The second thing I want you to notice is that I will list every 1st round pick drafted, BUT I wont list the other 20+ RBs that are drafted each year. So even if you think the non 1st round RBs are better than the 1st round picks (I don't), what you have to keep in mind is that although you may find 2-3 non 1st rounders that are good look how many picks are wasted to find them. If you are drafting 25 RB's every year of course some of them will be found in a late round but for the most part the 1st rounders are the ones that have talent and end up being a feature back for their team.

Starting RBs last decade:

2012
1st: Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson
Non 1st: Vick Ballard, Alfred Morris

2011
1st: Mark Ingram
Non: Mikel Leshoure, Demarco Murray, Stevan Ridley, Alex Green

2010
1st: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best,
non: Montario Hardesty, Jonathan Dwyer, James Stark

2009
1st: Knowshon Moreno, Beanie Wells, Donald Brown
non: Lesean Mccoy, Shonn Green

2008
1st: Darren McFadden, Chris "CJ2K" Johnson, Rashard Mendenhall, Felix Jones
non: Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Jammal Charles, Peyton Hillis

2007
1st: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch
non: Michael Bush, Ahmad Bradshaw, Garrett Wolfe (LOL)

2006
1st: Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams, Joseph Addai, Laurence Maroney
non: Maurice Jones-Drew, LenDale White

2005
1st: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson (BOOoooo), Cadilllac Williams
non: Frank Gore, Marion Barber

2004
1st: Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones
non: Michael Turner, Tatum Bell, Julius Jones

2003
1st: Willis McGahee, Larry Johnson
non: Justin Fargas, Domanick Davis, Brock Forsey (LOL)



*** That 2008 Draft was awesome for RBs***

 

[Warrior Spirit]

1st rounder for Weeden....:lmao:
I know you weren't saying they will get a first, but no team is giving up even a 3rd for him. Now as for "All that matters is they think it's a great value" you sound like a mom telling her child "because I said so", who can argue with mom?

Laugh it up but are you forgetting about the Jets?

 

[Xplosive]

Laugh it up but are you forgetting about the Jets?

You have a point, they can't function without dysfunction. Gotta find a replacement for the Sanchize after their dumbass coach broke his shoulder in half by putting him in to "win" a meaningless preseason game, in the 4th quarter.

 

[onebud34]

I know the thread is getting long so let me repeat this for those who keep making misguided claims...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



To further my point on 1st round RBs lets look at some of the Starting RBs taken in the 1st versus the claim you can get them anywhere in the draft. As I made the list the first thing that was obvious was that there hasn't been a good RB draft since 2008. The second thing I want you to notice is that I will list every 1st round pick drafted, BUT I wont list the other 20+ RBs that are drafted each year. So even if you think the non 1st round RBs are better than the 1st round picks (I don't), what you have to keep in mind is that although you may find 2-3 non 1st rounders that are good look how many picks are wasted to find them. If you are drafting 25 RB's every year of course some of them will be found in a late round but for the most part the 1st rounders are the ones that have talent and end up being a feature back for their team.

Starting RBs last decade:

2012
1st: Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson
Non 1st: Vick Ballard, Alfred Morris

2011
1st: Mark Ingram
Non: Mikel Leshoure, Demarco Murray, Stevan Ridley, Alex Green

2010
1st: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best,
non: Montario Hardesty, Jonathan Dwyer, James Stark

2009
1st: Knowshon Moreno, Beanie Wells, Donald Brown
non: Lesean Mccoy, Shonn Green

2008
1st: Darren McFadden, Chris "CJ2K" Johnson, Rashard Mendenhall, Felix Jones
non: Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Jammal Charles, Peyton Hillis

2007
1st: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch
non: Michael Bush, Ahmad Bradshaw, Garrett Wolfe (LOL)

2006
1st: Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams, Joseph Addai, Laurence Maroney
non: Maurice Jones-Drew, LenDale White

2005
1st: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson (BOOoooo), Cadilllac Williams
non: Frank Gore, Marion Barber

2004
1st: Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones
non: Michael Turner, Tatum Bell, Julius Jones

2003
1st: Willis McGahee, Larry Johnson
non: Justin Fargas, Domanick Davis, Brock Forsey (LOL)

I disagree

 

[Raskolnikov]

some guys can do it, usually zone blocking masters can plug and play. But you get what you pay for, and every once in a while a Davis, Morris, or Foster comes around. Sure you can find one, but you don't pass on a great one

 

[Nick80]

That list almost hinders your argument rather than help it.

Edit: I should remove the word 'almost' but as I typed it I'll leave it in.

 

[onebud34]

That list almost hinders your argument rather than help it.

Out of the last 10 years of 1st round RB's...5 went on to be feature backs.

 

[Xplosive]

Out of the last 10 years of 1st round RB's...5 went on to be feature backs.

WTF? Can you count?

Trent Richardson, CJ2k, Steven Jackson, AP, Marshawn Lynch, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Darren McFadden, Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams, Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Willis McGahee,Rashard Mendenhall, Larry Johnson...How do you count 5? Its more like 15 out of the 28 1st rounders. Meanwhile about 200 RBs have been drafted in the other rounds.

You disagree based on nothing but opinion and hype, are you claiming "feature" back is some special class of running backs that the ones listed above are NOT a part of?