OT | Clips Owner Sterling "don't bring [blacks]"

The Hawk

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This provides a look at both sides of the issue. The legal beagles are not in agreement. As a guy very interested in the law, I'd be interested how this gets resolved legally.


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The NBA owners' advisory and finance committee will hold a meeting Thursday to discuss the next steps in the removal of Donald Sterling as owner of the Los Angeles Clippers.
For Mr. Sterling to be ousted, at least 23 of the NBA’s 30 principal owners would have to vote to do so. Commissioner Adam Silver vowed Tuesday that he will do “everything in his power” to ensure that result, drawing sweeping praise from players, sponsors, and many owners.
But it may not be so simple, observers say. If Sterling decides to vigorously contest the ouster – and most believe he will – legal experts foresee a protracted legal battle.
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In fact, some have wondered whether there may be larger principles at stake than ostracizing an alleged racist. Can ugly, indefensible, and socially offensive comments, apparently made during a private lovers' spat and recorded surreptitiously, be enough to force a person out of private ownership of a billion-dollar business?
The case offers a wide-lens view on the intersection of American social values, property rights, and public responsibility for private speech.
“It would not be a frivolous lawsuit,” says Jeffrey Shinder, managing partner of the New York office of Constantine Cannon, which specializes in antitrust law.
Removing an owner of a private business is never taken lightly in US jurisprudence, with its precepts of free enterprise. Yet sports leagues are often given wide legal leeway for their collective “best interests.”
The NBA is its own private entity, of course, with its own private constitution and bylaws. Membership in this basketball association is not a right, and Article 13 of the NBA constitution lists 10 situations in which its board of governors can, with a three-fourths majority vote, oust an owner or any other member.
“Problem is it generally involves fraud or gambling, not a private conversation in the living room with your ‘girlfriend,’ ” writes Boston Herald columnist Ron Borges.
Indeed, if he were forced to sell, Sterling could sue the league, saying he broke no concrete bylaw. He could even make an antitrust argument, saying in effect that the league’s competitive owners are conspiring against another owner.
Then again, the sheer ugliness of Sterling’s alleged words, and the unambiguous contempt for black people expressed to his then-girlfriend – who is black and Latina herself – has provoked widespread social disgust for the NBA’s longest-tenured owner.
“Consider the ramifications of him continuing to own this team,” Mr. Shinder says. “[The team] could substantially atrophy back to the time – even worse than the team was back when it was the laughingstock of the league. No one is going to want to sponsor it, it’s going to lose its season ticket holders, players aren’t going to want to play it.”
Still, before the NBA exiled and fined Sterling on Tuesday, Mark Cuban, the billionaire owner of the Dallas Mavericks known for his provocative remarks, publicly expressed worries that punishing Sterling for his alleged “abhorrent” words might lead to a “slippery slope.”
“In this country, people are allowed to be morons,” Mr. Cuban said Monday night. “They're allowed to be stupid. They're allowed to think idiotic thoughts.”
“But regardless of your background, regardless of the history they have, if we're taking something somebody said in their home and we're trying to turn it into something that leads to you being forced to divest property in any way, shape, or form, that's not the United States of America,” he continued. “I don't want to be part of that.”
Cuban even retweeted the words of a follower: “Sterling's no victim. But one doesn't need to agree w/ his beliefs in order to argue his right to privately have them.”
After Tuesday’s press conference, however, Cuban seemed to soften his view, tweeting: “I agree 100% with Commissioner Silver's findings and the actions taken against Donald Sterling.”
By Wednesday, though, others began to echo his initial worry, saying even a vile racist doesn’t merit having private property taken away.
“[The] process does raise some troubling issues,” writes Mike Pesca in Slate. “A private citizen whose private thoughts were audio-taped (perhaps illegally) has been told he can no longer own his private property because of the thoughts that were revealed on that tape. These thoughts were loathsome to be sure, but didn’t advocate anything illegal and didn’t call for any violent or even literally hurtful actions.”
But for others, private property is not the only factor to consider. Not only is the NBA its own kind of private entity, with the right to enforce its rules and pursue its collective best interests, but a broader concern for the greater social good is also at stake, given the historical horrors of racism.
“Although it’s a tough question, I think as an owner of a sports team, you owe some kind of obligation to a greater whole,” says Shinder. “He’s a public figure in the sense that he owns a now-marquee franchise, and the interests of the NBA have a profound effect on our culture – which is why these leagues have constitutions and allow commissioners to ban people for a year, or ban them for life.”
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remydat

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What he said was disgusting. And those fans have every right to boycott Clippers games. But again, he was in his own residence and was pissed off and this is FREE SPEECH. Do you care at all about freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech does not protect you from your employer or the league. The NBA had to approve his owning a franchise which they did upon his adhering to their rules. He did not and now the same league that giveth can taketh away.

Let someone tape you being a bigot and take it to work. See if your ass isn't fired. You and Sterling's mistake is in thinking that because he owned the team it means he is above punishment.

And I already said earlier in this thread that if he were to challenge this it would likely be on antitrust grounds just as whenever player challenge the league antitrust gets mentioned. However that has fuck all to do with freedom of speech.
 

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Freedom of speech does not protect you from your employer or the league. The NBA had to approve his owning a franchise which they did upon his adhering to their rules. He did not and now the same league that giveth can taketh away.

Let someone tape you being a bigot and take it to work. See if your ass isn't fired. You and Sterling's mistake is in thinking that because he owned the team it means he is above punishment.

And I already said earlier in this thread that if he were to challenge this it would likely be on antitrust grounds just as whenever player challenge the league antitrust gets mentioned. However that has fuck all to do with freedom of speech.


You know, screw you and the horse you rode in on. Where in the hell have I ever said that Sterling is above punishment? Screw you and any others who imply that somehow I am a racist or supporter of sterling. You keep bringing up bullshit that isn't applicable to the issue at hand. By the way......... do you know what California law says regarding taping a person's speech?............ I didn't think so. But to enlighten you, in California , BOTH PARTIES need to agree to being taped. If you believe that somehow, Donald Sterling of all people( guy who lives on suing people) would agree to being taped in a racist statement, then you are really dense. Taping him without his consent is ILLEGAL under California law. Now then, a tape which has been made without his cognizance or approval will be dismissed in any court action. Therefore, if it is dismissed, then sterling can argue in California courts that his rights were violated and the evidence of his racism would be dismissed ergo the NBA vote would also be voided as a violation of his civil rights. Personal injury suit anyone?
 

houheffna

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You know, screw you and the horse you rode in on. Where in the hell have I ever said that Sterling is above punishment? Screw you and any others who imply that somehow I am a racist or supporter of sterling. You keep bringing up bullshit that isn't applicable to the issue at hand. By the way......... do you know what California law says regarding taping a person's speech?............ I didn't think so. But to enlighten you, in California , BOTH PARTIES need to agree to being taped. If you believe that somehow, Donald Sterling of all people( guy who lives on suing people) would agree to being taped in a racist statement, then you are really dense. Taping him without his consent is ILLEGAL under California law. Now then, a tape which has been made without his cognizance or approval will be dismissed in any court action. Therefore, if it is dismissed, then sterling can argue in California courts that his rights were violated and the evidence of his racism would be dismissed ergo the NBA vote would also be voided as a violation of his civil rights. Personal injury suit anyone?

You were one of the main supporters of the last thread speaking of some double standard...bringing up the transgressions of the Obama Administration. Now you pump up the Constitution as if you were John Adams. You sullied the argument...sometimes being called a racist in an argument about racism might be the repercussion. Just sayin...
 

remydat

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You know, screw you and the horse you rode in on. Where in the hell have I ever said that Sterling is above punishment? Screw you and any others who imply that somehow I am a racist or supporter of sterling. You keep bringing up bullshit that isn't applicable to the issue at hand. By the way......... do you know what California law says regarding taping a person's speech?............ I didn't think so. But to enlighten you, in California , BOTH PARTIES need to agree to being taped. If you believe that somehow, Donald Sterling of all people( guy who lives on suing people) would agree to being taped in a racist statement, then you are really dense. Taping him without his consent is ILLEGAL under California law. Now then, a tape which has been made without his cognizance or approval will be dismissed in any court action. Therefore, if it is dismissed, then sterling can argue in California courts that his rights were violated and the evidence of his racism would be dismissed ergo the NBA vote would also be voided as a violation of his civil rights. Personal injury suit anyone?

I think you need to refer to previous posts in this thread. The issue of the legality of the taping has already been discussed and is irrelevant as it relates to the NBA upholding it's bylaws and constitution. Just like the NFL and NBA can discipline it's players even when they have not been convicted of crimes, so can the NBA punish owners. You are confusing standards of proof in a criminal or civil proceeding with the standards of proof as it relates to the NBA governing its owners and players which makes no fucking sense.

Also, not sure where I said you were a racist so don't be an idiot. I gave an example that if someone taped you being a bigot, that you would likely be fired. It was a hypothetical genius.
 

The Hawk

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You were one of the main supporters of the last thread speaking of some double standard...bringing up the transgressions of the Obama Administration. Now you pump up the Constitution as if you were John Adams. You sullied the argument...sometimes being called a racist in an argument about racism might be the repercussion. Just sayin...


Screw you and your "just saying" bullshit. Calling me some fucking racist is just something that illiterate and hateful people do when they cannot form their own arguments well. This thread had not a damned thing to do with Obama. I am a huge admirer of John Adams by the way. I read the book John Adams released a couple of years ago and the man was a great person. Down to earth yet profound. In fact, I wish that even 10% of those in our existing government were as smart as those founding fathers. The US Constitution was an amazing living document which has been emulated and admired throughout the civilized world.

Did you know, BTW that it was John Adams who defended British soldiers in a very unpopular case before the war in which they were falsely accused by a civilian population who demanded "justice". Adams prevailed yet bore the brunt of pissing off many colonial leaders. Adams and his cousin, Sam, had balls!

As for the double standard. Are you denying that there is one? I was talking about how the media slants stuff. Don't they? Please enlighten me.
 

The Hawk

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Okay. All of you people who have taken me on about Sterling and the issue at hand. I challenge you to rebuff the arguments on the legal issues that I have posted as defined by experts. I was challenged and responded. so.....it is your turn. You show us all the case law and legal expert opinion that states, unequivocally that the NBA has the RIGHT to take Sterling's team from him. And PLEASE do not bring up some small town's home-owners association as an example.
 

houheffna

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Screw you and your "just saying" bullshit. Calling me some fucking racist is just something that illiterate and hateful people do when they cannot form their own arguments well. This thread had not a damned thing to do with Obama. I am a huge admirer of John Adams by the way. I read the book John Adams released a couple of years ago and the man was a great person. Down to earth yet profound. In fact, I wish that even 10% of those in our existing government were as smart as those founding fathers. The US Constitution was an amazing living document which has been emulated and admired throughout the civilized world.

Did you know, BTW that it was John Adams who defended British soldiers in a very unpopular case before the war in which they were falsely accused by a civilian population who demanded "justice". Adams prevailed yet bore the brunt of pissing off many colonial leaders. Adams and his cousin, Sam, had balls!

As for the double standard. Are you denying that there is one? I was talking about how the media slants stuff. Don't they? Please enlighten me.

I didn't call you a racist...lol. I said your dumbing down the debate with right-wing hate speech towards the media would cause some to call you a racist.

Yeah, I knew about the Adams story...that's why I brought him up Einstein...to let you know your argument isn't on that level. You mucked up your Adams-like crusade with the Obama bullshit. And John Adams didn't release a book a few years ago...unless he was still alive and kicking at about 280 years old. Adams didn't own slaves which wasn't true for a lot of the founding fathers...and he was also fat. So he has my admiration for those two reasons alone.

You and others having this tirade about the media really had no place in the argument. The media has let Sterling off for years. All they had to do was let Sterling's words speak...no slant was needed. Dude is a racist, a delusional racist, something that was already known by those who delved into his past. The media, if anything, have helped to make him a sympathetic figure because of how the tapes were released.
 

houheffna

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Okay. All of you people who have taken me on about Sterling and the issue at hand. I challenge you to rebuff the arguments on the legal issues that I have posted as defined by experts. I was challenged and responded. so.....it is your turn. You show us all the case law and legal expert opinion that states, unequivocally that the NBA has the RIGHT to take Sterling's team from him. And PLEASE do not bring up some small town's home-owners association as an example.

You missed that whole USA Today post showing legal reasoning for what Adam Silver will try to do? You ignored the posting of what a "franchiser", "franchisee" and "franchise" meant? Do you deny that the Clippers are an NBA franchise?
 

The Hawk

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I mean exactly what I said.

Most of your views parrot the views of that website.

I guess that you read the website, eh? Never heard of it until either the Trib or the Times referenced it on their own site. What you think, though, is your own damn business. I can't help it if you are dumb.
 

The Hawk

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Oh for Christ's sake. The book I referred to was an autobiography about John Adams and was released probably about ten years ago. It was well written and they actually made a mini-series about his life that was based on this book. My God, how petty are those who insult people's intelligence by inferring that I thought that John Adams released the book. Grow up.
 

The Hawk

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You missed that whole USA Today post showing legal reasoning for what Adam Silver will try to do? You ignored the posting of what a "franchiser", "franchisee" and "franchise" meant? Do you deny that the Clippers are an NBA franchise?

No I didn't read the article and yes I know that the NBA is a franchise. Now what?
 

houheffna

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No I didn't read the article and yes I know that the NBA is a franchise. Now what?

Oh okay...well then you can continue to ask questions that were answered....and no the NBA isn't a franchise...the Clippers are.
 

The Hawk

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Oh okay...well then you can continue to ask questions that were answered....and no the NBA isn't a franchise...the Clippers are.


I misspoke, I meant the Clippers were a franchise. But then again, you really knew that already:) And no, I do not ask questions that have been answered.
 

The Hawk

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You just don't get it. The Constitution deals with the GOVERNMENT, not the NBA.

You just do not get it. The Constitution outlines the freedoms that are guaranteed in this country. It is sort of a rule book if you will. Freedom of speech is one of them, freedom to own property, the judiciary then rules on cases in which an individual(s) and organizations petition for redress on something that they believe is contrary to their rights as citizens. Sterling likely will seek this redress as is his right. There are a few parties in which sterling may sue as the aggrieved party, The NBA organization as well as the individual owners. Get it?
 

Nail Polish

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You just don't get it. The Constitution deals with the GOVERNMENT, not the NBA.
No...YOU just dont get it..The Constitution deals with almost every aspect of American life..It deals with private business and citizens as well as the Government

Ever hear of the Commerce clause?..I guess not .... Free Speech maybe?? How about Free Association??

Commerce Clause
The commerce clause is found in Article 1, section 8, clause 3 of the U.S. constitution. This provides congress with the right and ability to regulate international trade, as well as trade between the states. This power was given to the central government to bring uniformity to trade between the states. Any business that buys or sells items in states other than where it is located, or in a foreign country, is subject to any laws that the federal government may pass to regulate these transactions. The state government retains the right to regulate trade within its borders.


Free Speech
A person's right to free speech is preserved by the first amendment, which restricts congress from making laws restricting this right. Of course, the right can be modified as necessary for the public good and safety. Free speech also applies to a business. This was challenged with campaign finance reform, which restricted a business's right to donate to political campaigns. Some businesses owners objected, saying that it was part of free speech to give money to a political candidate of their choice. On January 21, 2010, the U.S. supreme court ruled in a five to four decision that corporations have the same right to free speech as individuals



Free Association
The constitution protects the right of free association as part of the first amendment. A person is allowed to form his own belief or association with people, essentially of his own free will. This applies to businesses, as well. Most notably, you do not have the right to hand out information about a personal cause at a place of business without the business owner's consent. He does not need to allow you to associate that belief with his business. This right of free association is limited in matters of employment, as equal opportunity employment defines several instances where employers cannot discriminate in their hiring practices.





and this guy teaches our kids??

:obama:
 

Gustavus Adolphus

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You just do not get it. The Constitution outlines the freedoms that are guaranteed in this country. It is sort of a rule book if you will. Freedom of speech is one of them, freedom to own property, the judiciary then rules on cases in which an individual(s) and organizations petition for redress on something that they believe is contrary to their rights as citizens. Sterling likely will seek this redress as is his right. There are a few parties in which sterling may sue as the aggrieved party, The NBA organization as well as the individual owners. Get it?
Ugh. It outlines freedoms from the government. Not from businesses.
 

Gustavus Adolphus

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Just unreal to me that anybody who graduated from high school doesn't know this.
 

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