OT: Jose Fernandez may be out for year

[beckdawg]

Pitchers are dropping like flies this year. I sorta worried about this earlier in the year when I noticed he was pretty reliant on his curve.

 

[theberserkfury]

This is seriously getting out of hand... MLB has to start putting pressure on Little League and high school and college and whatever to make sure young pitchers aren't being overused/abused...

 

[Parade_Rain]

OK. Let's stop blaming LL and curveballs. Let's take a look at pitching mechanics. Here's a blog written a couple of months ago noting his mechanical changes.

http://baseballrebellion.com/jorenduff/did-jose-fernandez-change-his-pitching-mechanics/

 

[theberserkfury]

Is there an article like that for all of the other guys who are getting TJ?

 

[beckdawg]

OK. Let's stop blaming LL and curveballs. Let's take a look at pitching mechanics. Here's a blog written a couple of months ago noting his mechanical changes.

http://baseballrebellion.com/jorenduff/did-jose-fernandez-change-his-pitching-mechanics/

I'm always going to worry about young MLB pitchers who use curves as their out pitch. That doesn't mean all will break but the fact it happens often enough to notice is enough worry for me.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'm always going to worry about young MLB pitchers who use curves as their out pitch. That doesn't mean all will break but the fact it happens often enough to notice is enough worry for me.

It isn't the curve ball. It's the type of curve and mechanics used for that one, as well. Are we talking 12-6 or something supinated like more of a slider?

 

[Parade_Rain]

Is there an article like that for all of the other guys who are getting TJ?

I don't know. When I have time, I will search some of my resources.

 

[theberserkfury]

I don't know. When I have time, I will search some of my resources.

Cool, thanks.

 

[SilenceS]

I still stick to their arms damage comes from when they are young. I dont know if it was on here or another site about how Andrews believes younger kids shouldnt throw off a mound. They should just throw off flat ground. There body isnt mature enough to handle the directory of the hill and puts huge pressure on them.

 

[zack54attack]

Shitty. One of the games best young players.

 

[Parade_Rain]

If anyone gets a chance...if they replay it, MLB Network Roundtable: the Pitching Dilemma has some great information. Well worth the watch.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Yeah. That Pitching Dilemma roundtable included a surgeon who does TJ surgeries, an SI writer, Tom House, Jim Kaat, John Schmultz and a segment with Andrews about the issues with pitching in MLB and youth. Very good topic.

As for youth CB, here is a nice article from both angles. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/s...-young-pitching-arms.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

“What we found out in the lab is true,” Andrews said. “For pitchers with proper mechanics, the force of throwing a curveball is no greater than for a fastball. But that’s not what happens in reality on the baseball field. Many kids don’t have proper mechanics or enough neuromuscular control, or they are fatigued when throwing curveballs. Things break down.

“Those are the kids I’m seeing every day in my operating room.”
...
“It doesn’t mean we’re advocating throwing breaking balls,” Keener said. “We don’t promote it. We just think it’s very difficult to regulate it out of the game, and there is no data to show that throwing breaking balls is at the root of arm injuries.”
...
One aspect of the curveball debate, and the studies it has spawned, that everyone agrees on is that throwing too many pitches of any type is the biggest danger.

As surprised as Mihalik might have been about her study’s findings on curveballs, what alarmed her most was the number of pitches thrown.

“So many were playing for three teams at once,” she said. “And the data was extremely clear that overuse led to injury more than any other factor.”

That, too, is consistent with the findings of more than 15 years of research at the American Sports Medicine Institute, and similar studies around the country.

“Maybe asking whether the curveball is safe is the wrong question,” Fleisig said. “Maybe the question should shift to this: Are you overdoing it? Because there is no question, scientifically or anecdotally, that too much throwing leads to injury, and often it’s serious injury.”

I think if Fleisig could change his wording there from "throwing" to "pitching", he'd be spot on. What is going on with a lot of the travel teams is year round baseball, throwing when tired to win a tournament, etc. Also notice Mahilik's comments about "playing for 3 teams at once." Yikes.

 

[theberserkfury]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...chooler-throws-194-pitches-in-14-inning-start

I feel like this is probably not good.

 

[brett05]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...chooler-throws-194-pitches-in-14-inning-start

I feel like this is probably not good.

I go the other way. I think the pitchers today suffer so much because they don't pitch a lot.

Overuse is a problem, but so is underuse. Back when there were four man rotations and bullpens were just a few guys those guys threw a ton. I really think not throwing enough which would cause the arm to be under conditioned is the issue.

 

[Parade_Rain]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...chooler-throws-194-pitches-in-14-inning-start

I feel like this is probably not good.

194 pitches seems outrageous, but that wasn't the only thing that was crazy. Did you click the link to the MaxPreps report? How about the catcher coming in relief for 3 innings and pitching the next game. So one player pitches 14 innings and the other (the catcher) pitches 10 innings. Yikes. It's a small school, so they have a limited amount of talent available, but so does the school they are playing. It sounds like they need to do a better job of player/pitcher development to have more arms. The opposing pitcher in the 17 inning game threw about 130 pitches in 12 innings.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I go the other way. I think the pitchers today suffer so much because they don't pitch a lot.

Overuse is a problem, but so is underuse. Back when there were four man rotations and bullpens were just a few guys those guys threw a ton. I really think not throwing enough which would cause the arm to be under conditioned is the issue.

I like your idea, but remember...there is a difference between throwing and pitching. Throwing a lot is great. Pitching is absolute max effort. For MLBers I tend to agree. For HS? Especially at smaller schools you will find some pitch too much.

 

[brett05]

I like your idea, but remember...there is a difference between throwing and pitching. Throwing a lot is great. Pitching is absolute max effort. For MLBers I tend to agree. For HS? Especially at smaller schools you will find some pitch too much.

That's overuse though and insufficient rest between starts.

 

[Parade_Rain]

That's overuse though and insufficient rest between starts.

What rest? If you watch the Pitching Dilemma, Kaat (averaged 241 innings from 1961 - 1971) said he threw often. The day after the game he would take GB at SS and throw over to 1B. Flat ground. Flat ground is essentially what SilenceS remembers about what Andrews said, too. The mound adds stress.

 

[brett05]

pitching=throwing unless specified otherwise when talking about a pitcher. I think that's the mixup

 

[Parade_Rain]

pitching=throwing unless specified otherwise when talking about a pitcher. I think that's the mixup

Throwing and pitching are two different things, even when discussing a pitcher. Different effort and different mechanics. One keeps the shoulder/elbow stretched and in shape. The other is max effort 100% of the time.