OT: PFF loses ALL credibility

fatkid73

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The numbers don't even matter if you don't know what they represent. I can tell you Rodgers didn't get a negative number. He got a positive number. More importantly, however, you have to understand how their grading system works. They give grades based on how each play was analyzed. You might think if a player got a zero, that's bad but it's not. Take Rodgers for instance. They gave him a grade of +.7 last game. To you and others that seems ridiculous cause he threw for 5 TDs and what not. If I was to look at that grade, it wouldn't make me think he had a bad game, just an easy time of it. In other words, he wasn't seeing much or any pressure and his receivers were getting open consistently and at will. Each play is graded individually and then all are averaged out. If Rodgers completes a pass to a receiver who is wide open, that play would be graded a 0 for Rodgers. It means he hit hit receiver as was intended but required no extra or special effort to do so. If he had to fit it in to a tighter window on a deeper route he'd get more credit for that. They go by increments of .5 for each play. Every play is graded on the same scale no matter if a TD or Int. A TD would just be another good pass while an Int would be 1 bad pass if the QB is to blame.

Pff also does rating based off the numbers which lay fans would better understand. For that game, Rodgers' pff QB rating was 101.

Not sure where this came from or if you made it up, but multiple articles i looked at are saying Rodgers got a negative grade from PFF. Here is one as an example from @TheBuzzer on Fox Sports:
After NFL analytics website ProFootballFocus (PFF) revealed its negative game rating for Packers QB Aaron Rodgers' Monday Night Football performance, a mob of incredulous NFL fans began urging PFF to (discount) double check its model.
Rodgers completed 24-of-35 passes for 333 yards and five touchdown passes against zero interceptions, good for a 138.5 passer rating. But PFF, which grades every player's performance on every play according to its more nuanced model, saw it differently. Take a look at how Rodgers, who graded a negative 0.8 for the game, stacked up against other QBs in Week 3:
Love me some @PFF but Aaron Rodgers was not worse than Nick Foles, Jameis Winston or Blake Bortles this week. pic.twitter.com/F4BYr7PR17

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/pff-aaron-rodgers-negative-grade-packers-chiefs-mnf-092915
 

fatkid73

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I know reading is hard Spartan, but if you keep trying real hard, you may get it.
 

Warrior Spirit

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Was posted earlier in the thread. Commented on. laughed at.

PFF is fucking trash.

A link to the PFF explanation is actually in a quote of yours on this page. Fairly lazy to not see it before commenting.
 

Warrior Spirit

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I know reading is hard Spartan, but if you keep trying real hard, you may get it.

I have access to the updated premium stats, fatso. I can read just fine. Again, the important part is to know how to interpret the numbers. If a big play goes to Cobb because he got wide open and then got a lot of yards after the catch, he'd get the extra credit for that play and not Rodgers.

Cobb's grade was extremely high for 1 game which shows you he was beating his defender like a drum and getting the YAC.
 

FirstTimer

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Oh, ok. I see where that number came from now. In the actual premium stats section you have to sign in for, he actually got an overall +.7 for that game. Maybe they adjusted his numbers after that article was written.

Wait..you actually PAY for this crap?

The hell is wrong with you?
 

Wild_x_Card

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I have access to the updated premium stats, fatso. I can read just fine. Again, the important part is to know how to interpret the numbers. If a big play goes to Cobb because he got wide open and then got a lot of yards after the catch, he'd get the extra credit for that play and not Rodgers.

Cobb's grade was extremely high for 1 game which shows you he was beating his defender like a drum and getting the YAC.

People aren't really having a problem with Cobb getting extra credit. It's how they gave Rogers negative marks for shit like almost interceptions and a fumble that was recovered by the offense.

If they want to give him a negative mark for an incompletion, I could see it. But they're really walking on stupidity with things like almost ints.
 

Wild_x_Card

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I've attached a link with PFF's explanation as to why Rodgers received a negative grade. I'm not buying it. They did not give Rodgers any credit for 3 of his TD passes b/c they were short passes where the WR did all the work to score the TD. They basically say that anyone could have made those throws, and they credit Cobb for turning them into TDs. I can sorta understand the rationale for that, but not completely because I doubt Clausen could have done the same thing. They further explain that they gave Rodgers a negative mark for fumbling once, and another negative mark for "almost" throwing an interception, which they believe could have been a pick 6. So he received only 2 negative marks... and those more than offset everything else he did in the game? Something does not compute...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/29/why-aaron-rodgers-earned-a-slightly-negative-grade/

Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers ended last night’s game with a -0.8 grade overall. This isn’t a bad game, just because the number begins with a minus, but it is an average grade very close to zero for a player who threw five touchdown passes, which seems crazy on the face of it. It’s not.

On the surface, Rodgers’ raw statistics paint the picture of one of the best games of the season. 333 passing yards, five touchdown passes, no interceptions, a 138.5 passer rating; Rodgers’ should be supplanting Carson Palmer in our team of the week as the top quarterback, not earning a grade with a minus in front of it, right?

Well, not if you dig a little deeper into Rodgers’ performance on a play-by-play basis. Looking first at his touchdown passes offers a view on how raw stats inflate the perception of a solid performance. Two of his touchdown passes were good or very good throws. His first touchdown pass on a whip to Ty Montgomery was a good throw leading his receiver away from the coverage for the score, so it earned a positive grade. His third touchdown pass to James Jones was a good throw on a back-shoulder pass yet again taking advantage of a free play, so it earned a positive grade.

The other three touchdowns, however, were passes thrown short of the end zone on speed outs to Randall Cobb. Were they bad throws? No, they were expected throws with the credit going to Cobb for fighting through contact or defeating the coverage with speed to the edge. That makes these zero-graded throws: Three passes that have a massive effect on Rodgers’ statistical performance but do not increase his grade.

However, those touchdown passes aren’t the story of what takes Rodgers’ grade from a grade with a plus in front of it to a grade with a minus in front of it. The story of what takes Rodgers’ grade below zero are two plays that you aren’t likely to see mentioned anywhere else today, but are taken into account of in a play-by-play grading system.

1. Rodgers had a fumble, which displayed poor pocket management, with 8:39 remaining in the second quarter. That play earned a negative grade.

2. With 12:58 remaining in the third quarter, Rodgers forced a pass that Josh Mauga could and possibly should have been returned for six points for Kansas City. If Mauga makes this interception, it would have tacked an ugly interception onto Rodgers’ stat line. Instead, Rodgers maintained his interception-less streak at Lambeau field, but it is a negatively graded play regardless. These are poor plays on Rodgers’ part that bring his game grade down that won’t show up on any widely quoted statistical analysis of his performance.

Context is crucial with everything in football, and if you believe we are saying that Rodgers had a poor game last night because his grade has a minus in front of it, then let me set your mind at ease; I do not think Rodgers played a poor, subpar game last night and neither does anybody else at Pro Football Focus. Rodgers did his job last night, but his job was executing simple throws, putting the ball quickly in the hands of receivers like Randall Cobb in favorable matchups on short throws, and allowing others to do the heavy lifting.

But for a couple of poor plays, his overall grade would have matched the sort of grade that you would be expecting to see from him, but those poor plays, coupled with the relative ease of some of his scores mean his performance last night was far closer to average than it was to the fantastic performance the box score suggests. The context surrounding his grade is crucial.

The greatness of Rodgers’ performance last night was in the intangibles. Recognizing the blitz, drawing the defense offsides, catching the Chiefs in bad situations and exploiting those scenarios with simple passes to open receivers. But you cannot — and we do not try to — quantify intangibles, or what comes pre-snap. Our system grades what can be graded — the execution of the play post-snap — and in that regard Rodgers did not stand out in the same way that his statistics did.
if your initial "analysis" needs this much of an explination chances are it was Shit to begin with.
 

FirstTimer

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People aren't really having a problem with Cobb getting extra credit. It's how they gave Rogers negative marks for shit like almost interceptions and a fumble that was recovered by the offense.

If they want to give him a negative mark for an incompletion, I could see it. But they're really walking on stupidity with things like almost ints.

PFF is also issuing grading that they forward as meaning SOMETHING when they admit they can't take into account all the things that Rodgers does great to play the defense like a fiddle to get guys like Cobb, Jones, (insert bum here) so open that the throws are "easy".

Just looking at the result of the play and not taking into account what lead to that result from pre-snap, especially in this day and age of football, is idiotic.
 

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PFF is also issuing grading that they forward as meaning SOMETHING when they admit they can't take into account all the things that Rodgers does great to play the defense like a fiddle to get guys like Cobb, Jones, (insert bum here) so open that the throws are "easy".

Just looking at the result of the play and not taking into account what lead to that result from pre-snap, especially in this day and age of football, is idiotic.

Correct. And those intangible are what separates guys like Rodgers, Manning, Brady, etc., from the rest of the pack and makes them elite. It's also arguably just as important as, or even more so, than the measurable stats. So as long as those intangible factors are not measured, then their grading system will always be inherently flawed.
 

Warrior Spirit

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Wait..you actually PAY for this crap?

The hell is wrong with you?

It's cheap. Forget exactly how much but around 20 bucks for the year I'd say. If you know how to interpret all the grades and ratings it's pretty cool. I understand now they are not offering anymore subscriptions due to exclusive partnerships.
 

FirstTimer

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It's cheap. Forget exactly how much but around 20 bucks for the year I'd say. If you know how to interpret all the grades and ratings it's pretty cool. I understand now they are not offering anymore subscriptions due to exclusive partnerships.

Dude, I love statistical shit and PFF is garbage of the highest order.
 

Warrior Spirit

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Dude, I love statistical shit and PFF is garbage of the highest order.

They are huge throughout the NFL and now that they're doing college too they'll be even a bigger deal which is why they don't offer basic subscriptions anymore.
 

FirstTimer

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They are huge throughout the NFL and now that they're doing college too they'll be even a bigger deal which is why they don't offer basic subscriptions anymore.

Good for them.

None of this means they aren't garbage.
 

fatkid73

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I have access to the updated premium stats, fatso. I can read just fine. Again, the important part is to know how to interpret the numbers. If a big play goes to Cobb because he got wide open and then got a lot of yards after the catch, he'd get the extra credit for that play and not Rodgers.

Cobb's grade was extremely high for 1 game which shows you he was beating his defender like a drum and getting the YAC.

I'm soooooo impressed you pay extra for the Premium package with PFF Spurtin'. However, it would be nice if you did a little research yourself before attacking someone's post and calling them illiterate. The numbers I posted were accurate numbers that were posted all over the internet. I too read just fine.
 

Warrior Spirit

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I'm soooooo impressed you pay extra for the Premium package with PFF Spurtin'. However, it would be nice if you did a little research yourself before attacking someone's post and calling them illiterate. The numbers I posted were accurate numbers that were posted all over the internet. I too read just fine.

I apologize for calling you illiterate. Have a great day, lad.
 

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