Our prized recruit from the rebuild haul

[Diehardfan]

What I would call a strong play from the Cubs is:

Trade Contreras and Hendricks. Free up a bit of cash. Toss in Madgral for a better return.

Cubs have 2 solid catchers right now. Promote Kilian to take his lumps. The Cubs need to be in the top 3 in the draft after this mess.

Off-season.

Target Max Muncy and Josh Bell. Muncy can play 3B, 2B and 1B. That would be a huge improvement over what is current. Bell is a masher. Make the splash deal here.

After that keep Happ and maybe extend him. He does give plus value and he would still work going forward.

Way I would work it:

SS Hoerner.
LF Happ
RF Suzuki
1B Bell
3B Wisdom
2B Muncy
DH Schwindel (cost cut)
C Gomes
CF Morel (Dude got a cannon in CF)

OMG, the one thing the Cubs are trying to do, you want to negate with two dumbass signings. That lineup you posted will strike out over 900 times. Thankfully......you're almost never right about anything.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

And why exactly, is that? They will have the funds and the way Ross is using the catchers this year tells me that there will be plenty of games and ABs for Amaya if he is indeed ready. If he doesn't work out, you still got Willy and if Amaya is the real deal....having two catchers that can play and DH would be a bonus. Contreras loves it here, he wants to stay and he's still young enough where if he was used correctly....he could be a useful piece for another 5 years.

IMOP.....unless it's an absolute killer, franchise altering offer....they should and will resign him.

The numbers I am hearing from Contreras camp is 5/150. The Cubs would be stupid to do that. 3 for 75 maybe. But more than 3 and for 30 millions a year is craziness.

 

[Diehardfan]

The numbers I am hearing from Contreras camp is 5/150. The Cubs would be stupid to do that. 3 for 75 maybe. But more than 3 and for 30 millions a year is craziness.

Wow. Someone with an inside angle on what Willy "really" wants.......trouble is, I haven't seen anything on the net saying he's asking for over 100. But you obviously have the real story.................straight from the "Contreras camp".

 

[CSF77]

OMG, the one thing the Cubs are trying to do, you want to negate with two dumbass signings. That lineup you posted will strike out over 900 times. Thankfully......you're almost never right about anything.

Do you even look at stats?

2023 MLB Player Hitting Stat Leaders

The official source for player hitting stats, MLB home run leaders, batting average, OPS and stat leaders

www.mlb.com

Wisdom is #2 at 100. But he is cheap.
Side note is Judge is at 83 and Trout at 79. Yep you would sprout wood on those guys and SO be damned.

Muncy 53.
Bell 43.

But nice try to be smart on something.

 

[CSF77]

Oh and the Cubs are trying to do something. Loose 100. They are doing a outstanding job of it

 

[CSF77]

The numbers I am hearing from Contreras camp is 5/150. The Cubs would be stupid to do that. 3 for 75 maybe. But more than 3 and for 30 millions a year is craziness.

You really need to be a bit real on market values.


30M per to 6-8 WAR value.

Wilson falls somewhere in-between 25/30 per. This year he is the #2 ranked catcher in fWAR at 2.9. at his pace he will be at 6 fWAR at the end. So the DH has benifited him vastly as he can get fielding days off to keep his P/A's up.

So by the numbers 5/150 might end up being his market value and players normally do not leave cash on the table.

So I believe his floor is 3/75. Someone will pay him market because he is that good and the DH keeps him viable for the duration.

 

[CSF77]

Contreras 2.9 fWAR
Nico Hoerner 2.3
Ian Happ 2.0

They should be better than their record. Injury to the rotation has been taxing.

The rest of the line up is under 1 fWAR .. so ya teams are going to get easy outs rolling through CHC.

Cubs are ranked #18 in runs scored. 26 in ERA.

So pitching is the larger issue going on and injury is a major reason for this.

 

[Diehardfan]

Do you even look at stats?

2023 MLB Player Hitting Stat Leaders

The official source for player hitting stats, MLB home run leaders, batting average, OPS and stat leaders

www.mlb.com

Wisdom is #2 at 100. But he is cheap.
Side note is Judge is at 83 and Trout at 79. Yep you would sprout wood on those guys and SO be damned.

Muncy 53.
Bell 43.

But nice try to be smart on something.

You're an idiot. The season isn't even half over, so you can at the very least double those numbers. You can also look at their history. If you can't see 900 K's in that lineup of yours, you are a bigger bonehead than most of us already think. Oh, yeah....that's right. This is your flavor of the day....so you can forget what their track record is because these are "your guys"......today. A few days from now, it'll be someone else. But again, you are nearly always wrong....so it's a pretty safe bet that none of this will ever take place anyway.

 

[CSF77]

You funny. Even when given raw facts you still spill out garbage.


This problem fix that Jed did...660 SO's to date. So contact hitters? Jed did not improve anything here. If anything he made it worse.

The best team in baseball here is the Gardians. They are at 509 SO's as a team.....so 900 SO is pretty much going to be a league wide thing. So you set the bar pretty low to begin with.

Okay, as bad as you want to make it out. It is not about strike outs. The Cubs won more than they lost while striking out.

It is about talent. The Cubs lost talent. Thus they lost. So what if a guy strikes out 30% of the time. What is he doing with the 70%. 93 wRC+ or 154?

I brought up Judge. 4.00 fWAR. 25.2% strike out rate. Trout. 4.0 fWAR. 27.5% strike out rate. Swanson 3.4 fWAR 27.4 SO rate.

So the reality is or you can cherry pick anything that we want to make a point. But as illustrated above. SO's are part of the game. What matters is what value they bring while making contact.

Josh Bell: 11.5% walk. 13.3% SO. 2.3 fWAR. Ya that is a major improvement to what is happening in Chicago. He is ranked #26 in baseball right now. Contreras is ranked #16.

Contreras will be paid more. Better numbers and plays a more essential.

Is it nice? Sure. But lets be realistic. Are you going to shit on Trout now? He strikes out at a high clip. Much higher than Bell.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Wow. Someone with an inside angle on what Willy "really" wants.......trouble is, I haven't seen anything on the net saying he's asking for over 100. But you obviously have the real story.................straight from the "Contreras camp".

I never said I had an inside scoop, lol. Just being realistic and yes all we have is rumors at this point. Realmulto is getting 23 AAV for 5 years. Contreras is a better catcher and he could be reaching for that 30 million per, as he is currently the best catcher now.

25 million over 3 years fine by me, but anything over 3 years or approaching 30 million, the Cubs would be smart to walk away from that and trade him if that is what he is asking.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

You really need to be a bit real on market values.


30M per to 6-8 WAR value.

Wilson falls somewhere in-between 25/30 per.

Says I need to be real on market values, then posts the same number as I did, lol.

 

[Diehardfan]

I never said I had an inside scoop, lol. Just being realistic and yes all we have is rumors at this point. Realmulto is getting 23 AAV for 5 years. Contreras is a better catcher and he could be reaching for that 30 million per, as he is currently the best catcher now.

25 million over 3 years fine by me, but anything over 3 years or approaching 30 million, the Cubs would be smart to walk away from that and trade him if that is what he is asking.

You said you heard from the Contreras camp.....let's see the proof. I haven't read anything about that kind of money. So you either have
inside stuff or you're full of shit.

 

[TL1961]

Most of those deals were to clear payroll for the other team. Cards just know when to strike and to take on cash vs lose talent.

Now if StL would do a deal lol ke Contreras and Hendricks for:

3. Jordan Walker, 3B, 19, High-A
Walker dominated 2021 in a big way. The 19-year-old hit 14 home runs, 48 RBI, 14 SB, and a .317 average. Walker has skyrocketed up most of the Cardinals prospect lists and will be a mainstay in the top of them for years to come. The all-around talent is there and has made him into one of the top 3B prospects in all of baseball. He’s still really young and will be a future stud.

4. Ivan Herrera, C, 21, AAA
Herrera got a small taste of Triple-A in 2021 with only 4 plate appearances. Although he didn’t have a great average in Double-A, he did hit 17 home runs and 63 RBI. One of the more consistent hitting prospects in the organization, that average in 2021 seems like a minor speed bump on the way to being the next big thing behind the plate in St. Louis.

Then StL gives Wilson his cash that he wanted and they really don't lose much when Yadi retires.

The Cardinals didn’t take on cash in the air and auto trade. The Rockies not only sent Arenado to St. Louis they literally sent $50 million along with him.

 

[TL1961]

What I would call a strong play from the Cubs is:

Trade Contreras and Hendricks. Free up a bit of cash. Toss in Madgral for a better return.

Cubs have 2 solid catchers right now. Promote Kilian to take his lumps. The Cubs need to be in the top 3 in the draft after this mess.

Off-season.

Target Max Muncy and Josh Bell. Muncy can play 3B, 2B and 1B. That would be a huge improvement over what is current. Bell is a masher. Make the splash deal here.

After that keep Happ and maybe extend him. He does give plus value and he would still work going forward.

Way I would work it:

SS Hoerner.
LF Happ
RF Suzuki
1B Bell
3B Wisdom
2B Muncy
DH Schwindel (cost cut)
C Gomes
CF Morel (Dude got a cannon in CF)

Dear God, pitchers would never have a chance. Look at that defense! Happ, Muncy, Bell? Jesus, why not just spot the opponents three runs before the game starts?

 

[JP Hochbaum]

You said you heard from the Contreras camp.....let's see the proof. I haven't read anything about that kind of money. So you either have
inside stuff or you're full of shit.

It was Heyman on the Score, he said it not me. Get mad at him...

 

[CSF77]

Dear God, pitchers would never have a chance. Look at that defense! Happ, Muncy, Bell? Jesus, why not just spot the opponents three runs before the game starts?

Happy is not bad in LF.
Muncy is worse than what has been going on at 2B? Shocking.

Bell worse than Schwindel? Shocking

 

[CSF77]

Guess you would rather have a .220 hitter at 1B because he catches the ball we'll... That is ?

 

[CSF77]

If you wanted to toss out a team not caring about $$$

Resign Contreras. DH makes this a realistic choice.

Sign Bell.

Bell can DH on Contreras' catching days. 1B when Wilson is DH.

They have a back up catcher in Gomes. They need a 1B on Bell's DH days. This is where Muncy makes sense. He has been in a 2B/1B situation with the Dodgers. That ability to shift fits here.

Now main UI? They are always on the board. Dime a dozen.

3B. For the price Wisdom is still a strong choice. I don't think there is a 3B that is breaking the bank. If A stud drops into F/A then you adjust. But looking at it from right now Wisdom is the best option outside of a trade. I don't see this being a real scenerio. Jed is more likely to spend on F/A vs lose farm depth right now.

OF the same. I don't see any reason the change up here.

SP Cubs are going to need a TOR lefty. From what we saw from Miley he looked the part. Got the ball and threw. Kept the D in the game. I doubt that Jed goes there unless it is at a discount.

Closer and a set up.

Rest about the same. Let the pitchers battle for it.

 

[CSF77]

At the end of the day I ask myself:. What would improve this team?

1B has been a disaster.
2B ditto
SS great
3B pass.
C no upgrade needed.
LF no upgrade needed.
CF Morel keeps doing great things. Ain't broke.
RF this was the investment.
DH only good when Contreras is there. Rest under performance

Pen. Adding to the rotation pushes depth here.

Closer great. Set up not so.

Rotation needs a TOR. Push these guys back.

That is the way I view it. The farm will work itself out. It should be based off Morel. Came up and took it. Forced the choice. Not banking on a dice roll.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I think we fill the 2b need by signing a shortstop and moving Hoerner to second base.
1b - I'd let Rivas stay there. Good fielder, reminds a lot like Brandon Belt.
3b - Wisdom is fine for another year, as we lack legit power.