Pace and Nagy:Gun to head you have to extend one and fire the other...

[Black Rainbow]

If you think about it Paces last draft actually wasn't that bad. Got Mooney Kmet and Jaylon. Kmet and Mooney would be playing a lot better if this o line wasn't so garbage and Nagy wasn't such of a Special person.

Jaylon seems legit. Kmet is averaging 11 yards per game. Mooney is averaging 34.

We are so used to our draft picks being busts any production seems like a big deal. We were high on Anthony Miller his rookie year, but not so much now.

 

[HearshotKDS]

I want to fire both, but if I have to pick its fire Pace extend Nagy.

The reason I chose that path is because Nagy's flaw are limited to single seasons: the bad calls, clock management, personnel packages, etc. can only hurt the current season. Pace's flaws - inability to evaluate a good QB at NFL level, overpaying the teams own marginal talent (Massie is the 10th highest paid RT in the league, Whitehair is a top 10 paid Center, Trevathans contract), neglecting OL depth because he uses mid round picks to move up earlier in the draft for questionable results, etc. all damage the team for multiple seasons. He did build a fantastic defense - but the offense he's built is almost as bad as the defense has been good.

TLDR: a bad coach stops being a problem the day you fire him, the consequences of a bad GM are felt long after he's been kicked to the curb. Get a bad GM out early so you can work through the shit cap & draft situation he put you in.

 

[iueyedoc]

I want to fire both, but if I have to pick its fire Pace extend Nagy.

The reason I chose that path is because Nagy's flaw are limited to single seasons: the bad calls, clock management, personnel packages, etc. can only hurt the current season. Pace's flaws - inability to evaluate a good QB at NFL level, overpaying the teams own marginal talent (Massie is the 10th highest paid RT in the league, Whitehair is a top 10 paid Center, Trevathans contract), neglecting OL depth because he uses mid round picks to move up earlier in the draft for questionable results, etc. all damage the team for multiple seasons. He did build a fantastic defense - but the offense he's built is almost as bad as the defense has been good.

TLDR: a bad coach stops being a problem the day you fire him, the consequences of a bad GM are felt long after he's been kicked to the curb. Get a bad GM out early so you can work through the shit cap & draft situation he put you in.

You are not the first to reason that a new GM can then just fire Nagy soon after. That's sort of a cop out answer. By extending one the point is you have to keep one long term( i.e. 3-4 yrs).

While the offensive personnel is lacking, I believe a good coach could and would willingly adjust to fit his players best attributes and hide the weaknesses. That is something Nagy puts zero effort into. With an actual good offensive minded coach and this defense I think the Bears, as constructed, are a playoff game winning or more team.

That is why I fire Nagy every day and twice on Sunday over Pace.

 

[Montucky]

Jaylon seems legit. Kmet is averaging 11 yards per game. Mooney is averaging 34.

We are so used to our draft picks being busts any production seems like a big deal. We were high on Anthony Miller his rookie year, but not so much now.

Kmet I have no idea what to make of but I'm pretty sold on Mooney. Guy gets open and makes some tough catches, not sure how good he is but he obviously can hack it in the NFL.

 

[Anytime23]

Pace and it's not even close. Im shocked the voting is this much in favor Nagy.

 

[ltap]

I think both deserve to get fired, but if I had to choose, it would be Nagy. I'm just tired of his act. Listening to him after the Rams game was aggravating. He blamed his lack that disaster on the fact that the Rams punter kept pinning them back in their own zone. He complained about penalties. Not once did he take any responsibility for the shitty playcalling. Look waht McVay does to help his QB and offence. He puts them in the best position to be successful. Nagy thinks his plan is the best and he's not changing it for anyone. He absolutely refuses to make changes to his offensive philosophy despite it not working for years. I'm tired of his attitude. Him thinking he's the smartest guy in the room. I'm sick of him telling us that that plays looked good in practice.

 

[WindyCity]

Pace and it's not even close. Im shocked the voting is this much in favor Nagy.

I am as well.

The offensive talent sucks. Our cap is a mess.

We only need a QB, LT, RT, RG to be successful on offense, we are really close.

 

[Anytime23]

I am as well.

The offensive talent sucks. Our cap is a mess.

We only need a QB, LT, RT, RG to be successful on offense, we are really close.

Dont get my wrong, i think Nagy is terrible too but yeah, the talent is just not there. Draft Watson instead of Mitch and you had a real shot at winning the SB in '18.

There's only so many top 10 picks you can blow until it's obvious that you're the problem with the team. Its one thing if the player doesnt live up to expectations, its another when they're worthless. Mitch, Floyd and White killed this team and that's just the top 10 picks.

 

[BearDen]

Absolutely fire Pace because the new GM will likely fire Nagy anyway, problem solved

 

[TecmoSuperbOwl]

Easily Pace. Nagy seems to be a coach that the players like and play hard for, and he's able to amass quality coaches. Hopefully a new GM would take play calling away and not wiff on every first rounder (save one).

 

[HearshotKDS]

You are not the first to reason that a new GM can then just fire Nagy soon after. That's sort of a cop out answer. By extending one the point is you have to keep one long term( i.e. 3-4 yrs).

While the offensive personnel is lacking, I believe a good coach could and would willingly adjust to fit his players best attributes and hide the weaknesses. That is something Nagy puts zero effort into. With an actual good offensive minded coach and this defense I think the Bears, as constructed, are a playoff game winning or more team.

That is why I fire Nagy every day and twice on Sunday over Pace.

Assuming Pace is replaced by a good GM (big assumption), i'd rather watch Nagy for 3 years while a good GM rebuilds the OL + finds the next QB so that there is a decent team here when the next competent coach comes after Nagy's 3 years are up. I think that's better than signing a good coach, but seeing him saddled with what I assume would be poorly invested contracts to middling Bears players, a 1 year wonder with a humble demeaner at QB who busts in the NFL, all while future mid round picks are mortgaged to trade up in current drafts for players that don't actually move the needle all that much.

But don't get me wrong - im not trying to defend Nagy here, I just think in the long term view a good GM does more benefit to a franchise than a good coach. Unless you give me the option to sign a Coach/GM like Reid or Belichick who is actually making the FO decisions while the titled GM just signs checks and contracts - but i assume that's cheating in this hypothetical.

 

[mecha]

Pace's approach to GM-ing would've been perfectly fine in 2015-2016 when there was absolute desperation to rebuild after Angelo/Emery/Trestman disasters. maybe even 2017 with Fox still at the helm, but that's when the money shot of drafting Trubisky backfired. it continuing 2018-2020, the team is never going to stop bleeding. everything is shit.

you can simply replace a head coach, but a general manager's decisions over the course of a few years will adversely affect a team for a long time. I'm not trying to contradict myself by saying the Trestman experiment set the team back 5 years, because there was Angelo's and Emery's blunders coupled with saddling the team's best offense in a long time with the statistical worst defense in franchise history, but that was a thing too.

Nagy's trying to run the Kansas City Chiefs without all the tools to get it done. I'm sure it's that simple. Pace's misses and the mismanagement of the money is way worse than what's being seen on the field.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Fire Pace extend Nagy. Nagy has good leadership qualities and it’s honestly shocking to me Khalil Mack and Akiem hicks didn’t try to fight the offense outside or Halas Hall yet. As bad as this offense is Nagy doesn’t have a QB, arguably the worst offensive line in football, a non difference maker at RB, and 1 good WR. Nagy is good at keeping this team together and not imploding which is one of the biggest tasks of a HC.

I would compare one "genius" offensive mind to another.

McVay was creative and, because of that, their QB had a ton of open receivers and easy throws.

Where were the creative plays that would allow Foles to have a ton of easy passes?

I would fire Nagy (who cares if he is a nice guy?), resign Pace and lock him out of Halas Hall on the first day of the draft.

Solved!

 

[DaaBears]

Pace and it's not even close. Im shocked the voting is this much in favor Nagy.

It doesn't surprise me at all. It is so clear that Nagy expects players to adapt to what he wants without taking into account the skills of the players that he has. Kind of the opposite of what the Ravens and how they transformed the offense to the skill set of the players.

 

[Anytime23]

It doesn't surprise me at all. It is so clear that Nagy expects players to adapt to what he wants without taking into account the skills of the players that he has. Kind of the opposite of what the Ravens and how they transformed the offense to the skill set of the players.

The Bears cant even run the ball for 3 yards. Thats a personnel problem.

The Ravens have one of the best front offices in the league. People keep crediting Harbaugh for the offense when it should be Greg Roman, who id take as HC in a second.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

I would compare one "genius" offensive mind to another.

McVay was creative and, because of that, their QB had a ton of open receivers and easy throws.

Where were the creative plays that would allow Foles to have a ton of easy passes?

I would fire Nagy (who cares if he is a nice guy?), resign Pace and lock him out of Halas Hall on the first day of the draft. McVay did nothing special on Monday night.

Solved!

No the Rams were able to physically dominate the Bears soft ass front up front with physical RBs and an imposing offensive line and build off of that. The bears couldn’t block a HS team right now.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

No the Rams were able to physically dominate the Bears soft ass front up front with physical RBs and an imposing offensive line and build off of that. The bears couldn’t block a HS team right now.

You don't need to "dominate" anybody for long when the QB fakes a hand off, rolls out and immediately hits a wide open receiver ... again ... and again ... and again.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

You don't need to "dominate" anybody for long when the QB fakes a hand off, rolls out and immediately hits a wide open receiver ... again ... and again ... and again.

That’s called play action... which works when the defense respects your run game. Never thought I would have to explain play action on a football message board.

 

[ChiGuy]

I’ll choose for Pace to be sacked and I’m shooting Nagy with the gun.

 

[msadows]

I'd keep pace.

Nagy has shown no redeeming qualities thus far. Pace has at the very least draft some talent on defense.