Paxson vs. Del Negro

Fred

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http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chi...onts-del-negro-tries-to-fight-him-shoves.html

I just heard Barkley talk about this on TNT. This might explain Vinny's reluctance to play Noah more than 35 minutes in the loss to the Nets. For once, I'm kinda at a loss for words.

On another note, I took the Bulls -5 (I'm in Vegas for work). I've never loved Kirk Hinrich as much as I did in the first half. He played awesome, with the exception of the missed technical free throw.
 

RC_Skinny22

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Fred wrote:
He played awesome, with the exception of the missed technical free throw.

I knew you would find a "...but..." :D
 

houheffna

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I have lost some respect for Paxson after hearing this......

very unprofessional, and sad...
 

RC_Skinny22

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Well if this is the truth Houh is absolutely right.
 

Diddy1122

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Wasn't Pax just supposed to be a title anyway? Shouldn't it be Gar's job to challenge Vinny to a fight?

Honestly I'm fairly shocked by this. 1) because I never expected Pax to anything other than professional & respectful when it came to all things Bulls, & 2) WE WON THE F'N GAME BECAUSE OF NOAH!!!. Granted Vinny exceeds his minute limit & basically knocked him out for 3 weeks, but Jo is the reason that game went to OT & the reason they won it. I can understand being pissed about not following orders but it is the coaches job to WIN, & that's what Vinny was trying to do.
 

Shakes

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My money is on Paxson, Vinny wouldn't want to mess up his pretty boy face. ;)
 

clonetrooper264

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Fred wrote:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chi...onts-del-negro-tries-to-fight-him-shoves.html

I just heard Barkley talk about this on TNT. This might explain Vinny's reluctance to play Noah more than 35 minutes in the loss to the Nets. For once, I'm kinda at a loss for words.

On another note, I took the Bulls -5 (I'm in Vegas for work). I've never loved Kirk Hinrich as much as I did in the first half. He played awesome, with the exception of the missed technical free throw.
How about now that he's scored 30? Sorry...just had to say it.
 

pinkizdead

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Fred wrote:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chi...onts-del-negro-tries-to-fight-him-shoves.html

I just heard Barkley talk about this on TNT. This might explain Vinny's reluctance to play Noah more than 35 minutes in the loss to the Nets. For once, I'm kinda at a loss for words.

On another note, I took the Bulls -5 (I'm in Vegas for work). I've never loved Kirk Hinrich as much as I did in the first half. He played awesome, with the exception of the missed technical free throw.

i'm just glad you survived. let's all hope hinrich keeps it up!
 

pinkizdead

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clonetrooper264 wrote:
Fred wrote:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chi...onts-del-negro-tries-to-fight-him-shoves.html

I just heard Barkley talk about this on TNT. This might explain Vinny's reluctance to play Noah more than 35 minutes in the loss to the Nets. For once, I'm kinda at a loss for words.

On another note, I took the Bulls -5 (I'm in Vegas for work). I've never loved Kirk Hinrich as much as I did in the first half. He played awesome, with the exception of the missed technical free throw.
How about now that he's scored 30? Sorry...just had to say it.

against a playoff team. not just above .500 a playoff team!
 

pinkizdead

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was this the reason for the alcohol ban, was it the same night?
 

TheStig

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Its amazing how this board is all against VDN and all for management for the most part. I doubt this is the first time he has gotten mixed messages and it certainly isn't the first time he has been put out as the scape goat. Management has hung a lot of coaches out to dry, yet it hasn't taken responsibility for their own actions. VDN didn't pick his players and it certainly appears that he didn't have much input on the roster. VDN simply isn't a bad coach. Despite losing talent to begin the year and loosing even more talent at the trade deadline and a key injury to Noah(and deng's annual vacation), he has us potentially having the same record as last year while changing the focus of the team in the summer. I don't think he is a top 5 coach but he is certainly an average nba coach. What he lacks in in game management(remember you hired a guy with no coaching expirence) he makes up for with what seems to be a good implementation and getting the most out of guys. VDN isn't getting a fair shake here, he isn't completely without fault but I only have problems here and there not big overall problems.

Management on the other hand has fumbled almost all of its major decisons besides falling ass backward into rose and picking noah over hawes. Other than that they have wasted countless lotto picks, signed horrible deals minus noc's original deal and duhons extension. We have mismanaged salary so badly that only one year post dynasty was our highest paid players in the top 2 on the team and that was the year we traded for Jalen Rose. Not a impressive track record.

I view management JR/Pax/Gar as much more of a detriment to our success than VDN.
 

TheStig

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pinkizdead wrote:
was this the reason for the alcohol ban, was it the same night?

I could have sworn that was a player incident plus it was on the plane and not the coach's office.
 

pinkizdead

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ahh sweet. i was trying to remember the details. the mystery continues.
 

Diddy1122

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I'm not a Vinny supporter by any means. I think his rotations, though they have gotten better, still stink. He's a horrible X's & O's guy, & he still struggles with when best to use a TO & when best not to. However, I am sympathetic towards Vinny now aftering hearing about this. I work in the corporate world where there's really no such thing as a quick decision so I know the frustration of having to get authority to do something you know is right & in the companies best interest, in the heat of the moment, then not hearing anything back until it's pretty much too late. That type of crap happens all the time. I just never expected it to go on in the Bball world.

How is Vinny expected to perform his job when he is thrown under the bus by the FO at any opportunity, is constantly looking over his shoulder, & has to get the FO's ok to play a player on his bench an extra 2 minutes? If Pax wants to coach, THEN COACH! It is seriously time for Pax to just do what he was going to do last season & retire. The stress of this job has eaten him alive the past 7 years & if he keeps this up, he'll be looking at a major coronary in the near future.

This means Vinny is gone. No way either of these two should be back imho. Pax needs to retire & Vinny needs to go elsewhere. My biggest concern with this is it's impact on 2010 free agency. How are we going to look to potential FA's when our VP of Bball Ops is batshit crazy?

On another note: Why in the world did KC hold this story back? Does he really respect Vinny that much? Where's the journalistic integrity? Where's the objectivity? I know he's a beat sports writer, which means opinions kind of come with the territory, but I can't for the life of me understand why a journalist would sit on a story like this for 3 weeks. Respect or no, it's KC's JOB to report the news. And shame on whatever player or coach that let this slip out. Though since there are lawyers involved I'm betting it was a player's agent who leaked the story.
 

Diddy1122

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http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5086856

Ok so now I don't know what the hell to believe.

Is Pax a hot head or is it Vinny? Did Pax start it or did Vinny? Has Vinny been out for himself all season?

For some reason I get the feeling that the "source" is a part of the FO, thus they are trying to spin this thing to make Vinny the bad guy & make firing him look less like a bush league move at this point. I've watched Vinny the past 2 seasons & he does not strike me as confrontational at all. What does he have 2 techs in 2 seasons? Though I could be wrong & Vinny may really be a hot-headed Italian.

However, after hearing Gar blatantly lie to the entire fanbase during the offseason, I have ZERO trust in any information coming from the FO so I don't know what the hell to believe. This just a friggin' mess that did not need to come out right now.
 

Kush77

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Diddy1122 wrote:
On another note: Why in the world did KC hold this story back? Does he really respect Vinny that much? Where's the journalistic integrity? Where's the objectivity? I know he's a beat sports writer, which means opinions kind of come with the territory, but I can't for the life of me understand why a journalist would sit on a story like this for 3 weeks. Respect or no, it's KC's JOB to report the news. And shame on whatever player or coach that let this slip out. Though since there are lawyers involved I'm betting it was a player's agent who leaked the story.

and it was funny listening to Reggie Miller rip K.C. on the TNT broadcast. I agree, that needs to be reported.

As for Pax and VDN, it's time for both to go. This is just par for the course as far as Chicago Bulls management. Vinny deserves some criticism but the Bulls also botched a coaching search that resulted in Vinny's hiring. They're the ones to blame as well.

Bulls management is a joke and will continue to be as long as uncle Jerry is running things.

Notice the turnaround in the Blackhawks once Rocky took over for Dollar Bill. Good management can really change things. I think JR holds this team back, the sooner he retires/sells the team - the better.
 

houheffna

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I'm not a Vinny supporter by any means. I think his rotations, though they have gotten better, still stink. He's a horrible X's & O's guy, & he still struggles with when best to use a TO & when best not to. However, I am sympathetic towards Vinny now aftering hearing about this. I work in the corporate world where there's really no such thing as a quick decision so I know the frustration of having to get authority to do something you know is right & in the companies best interest, in the heat of the moment, then not hearing anything back until it's pretty much too late. That type of crap happens all the time. I just never expected it to go on in the Bball world.

Exactly, and as someone who is trying to break into corporate America (damn recession), I feel that in no context is this type of behavior acceptable. Yet, I heard on the radio that this stuff happens all the time. Breakdown in communication? Yes...the rest of this stuff is over the top. Also, I didn't hear about Krause barging into Phil's office with a stepladder and getting in Phil's face challenging Phil to a fight...
 

Diddy1122

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houheffna wrote:
Also, I didn't hear about Krause barging into Phil's office with a stepladder and getting in Phil's face challenging Phil to a fight...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

Shakes

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TheStig wrote:
VDN isn't getting a fair shake here, he isn't completely without fault but I only have problems here and there not big overall problems.

I think he does suffer in the Skiles comparison. Then again, most coaches would. It's kind of like how if our SG doesn't average 30 PPG he's garbage because we came to expect that from MJ (no, not saying Skiles is the MJ of coaches).

I don't think he's awful, but I also don't think you can just say his problems are purely game management. Look at Salmons here and after he left. I'm a Skiles fan boy but I can't write it all off as Skiles getting the most out of Salmons, as Salmons is just doing what he was doing last year. I have to give some of the blame for Salmons play here to VDN, Salmons seemed to lose confidence. Likewise at times Kirk has looked afraid to take shots in a way he didn't under previous coaches. Deng has said in the past he's unsure what role he's supposed to play in the offense. That's more than just game management issues.

Management on the other hand has fumbled almost all of its major decisons besides falling ass backward into rose and picking noah over hawes. Other than that they have wasted countless lotto picks, signed horrible deals minus noc's original deal and duhons extension. We have mismanaged salary so badly that only one year post dynasty was our highest paid players in the top 2 on the team and that was the year we traded for Jalen Rose. Not a impressive track record.

Any failing of VDN reflects badly on management anyway. They hired him after all. But I think asking that the top paid player be in the top 2 isn't really on management so much. Our top two players have been rookie contract guys that whole time. What do you want them to do, get rid of all the non-rookie contracts?

I view management JR/Pax/Gar as much more of a detriment to our success than VDN.

Well obviously, you could say that about any team. Management bringing in the right players has more impact on results than coaching the players you have.
 

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