Picking apart Hoyer saying he will spend this off season.

[knoxville7]

I pointed it out because you constantly nitpick things. People that do that are trolls and toxic for discussion boards. Going on block now.

lmao enjoy!

yeah, I hate when other people present countering viewpoints to where I go run and hide too!

I actually presented logical reasons for why the Mets would give Thor the QO and your response is… “but but but I’m right!! You must be blocked now!! You threaten my superiority complex!!”

good riddance

for fucks sake @CSF77 handles criticism better than you do

 

[CSF77]

I don't care about a QO or not. What is it a 3rd round player?

If you are targeting a player that becomes a focus the only concern is how much and will injury concern be a heavy hitter.

If a QO is a deterrent to signing a player then Tom needs to sell the team and go invest into the Rays whom have a legit excuse for being lame.

If we were talking about Matz then I kinda get it. Thor most likely works about a deal to stay. Sox have 2-3 pitchers that can slot in next year with out risking Rodon takes the QO.

So if anything. I feel that the Sox might not offer at all. They have upside in hand and Lopez. Being forced to pay Rodon and holding them back another year is not the smartest gamble.

 

[CSF77]

Just saying.

If it was me. Bit of a injury at the end and a track record. 20M in hand and a year to prove that I can last a whole year? Ya I could do that gamble and go into the next year with no QO block and leverage to get what I want.

Sox IMO are running a 65% chance if him taking it and now on the hook for 20M when they could have had Crochet battle for it for nickels

 

[Diehardfan]

Just saying.

If it was me. Bit of a injury at the end and a track record. 20M in hand and a year to prove that I can last a whole year? Ya I could do that gamble and go into the next year with no QO block and leverage to get what I want.

Sox IMO are running a 65% chance if him taking it and now on the hook for 20M when they could have had Crochet battle for it for nickels

I just want to clairify something. I personally like Carlos Rodon....love his attitude and work ethic. You listen to him on
interviews and he comes across as a guy you pull for.....likeable, a good teammate. Trouble is the poor guy just can't stay healthy. Look at his last start which was only his 5th start since August 7th.....sure he did well but his velocity dropped off the chart, barely hitting 90. If the Cubs were looking to add a piece for a WS run, then sure....you might roll the dice on him. But that is few years away....right now, I believe they will be looking for low rent free agents that have a chance to have a year....then flip them at the deadline. Whether the Cubs have the money or not is irrelevant.....it's just not the right time to gamble big dollars on guy who gets hurt every season.

 

[knoxville7]

I just want to clairify something. I personally like Carlos Rodon....love his attitude and work ethic. You listen to him on
interviews and he comes across as a guy you pull for.....likeable, a good teammate. Trouble is the poor guy just can't stay healthy. Look at his last start which was only his 5th start since August 7th.....sure he did well but his velocity dropped off the chart, barely hitting 90. If the Cubs were looking to add a piece for a WS run, then sure....you might roll the dice on him. But that is few years away....right now, I believe they will be looking for low rent free agents that have a chance to have a year....then flip them at the deadline. Whether the Cubs have the money or not is irrelevant.....it's just not the right time to gamble big dollars on guy who gets hurt every season.

exactly. when the cubs signed Lester it was different. Lester had a pretty good track record of taking the ball every 5th day. So you felt like even if the cubs were a year or two away still from competing, it would be fine because you “know” Lester will be there healthy still by then. Rodon you don’t know when you can and can’t expect him to be healthy

 

[CSF77]

I just want to clairify something. I personally like Carlos Rodon....love his attitude and work ethic. You listen to him on
interviews and he comes across as a guy you pull for.....likeable, a good teammate. Trouble is the poor guy just can't stay healthy. Look at his last start which was only his 5th start since August 7th.....sure he did well but his velocity dropped off the chart, barely hitting 90. If the Cubs were looking to add a piece for a WS run, then sure....you might roll the dice on him. But that is few years away....right now, I believe they will be looking for low rent free agents that have a chance to have a year....then flip them at the deadline. Whether the Cubs have the money or not is irrelevant.....it's just not the right time to gamble big dollars on guy who gets hurt every season.

I'm not taking it personal with him.

Like I said. If I am the Sox I am not offing because it is in his interest to take it.

If I am Jed I would look over the paperwork on Dr reports and get insurance. Then build up depth because injury is a big part.

Boras would have to work a deal based off of innings pitched to kick in bonus and year guaranteed perks.

This stuff is done all of the time. It is more of a mechanic issue and can it do the job or not?

Personally is fine. I call that icing not the cake.

 

[CSF77]

I think the main issue here is you have a team with 2 ace level pitchers in the pen. If they offer a QO they have to be prepared to pay and hold back these guys.

I personally feel that they made thier decision mid season. Rodon was not the guy extended. So they have about 0% interest in going forward

Now is a 3rd round pick worth 17-20M {no clue with CBA pending}. I don't. 3rd round is Thompson. He is not worth 20M and I doubt that he will get that much over his duration pre F/A.

So it is a shitty reason to screw a guy. No I don't want you but **** you anyways. That is the message sent.

 

[CSF77]

So going in I feel that Hendricks, Mills and Steel are close to locks. Steel really one upped Kyle's last game and that is what you want to see going into the meetings. Shoot I don't even know who is tossing tonight. Doubt it matters much though

So Jed most likely inks two guys. I don't see him paying top dollar on one at all. Stroman has no Q offer and is going to get business. Gausman has no reason to leave SF. And so on.

It will be interesting for sure. And if Jed pulls a trade for 1 and sign the 2nd like I suggested it makes plenty of sense.

 

[Diehardfan]

exactly. when the cubs signed Lester it was different. Lester had a pretty good track record of taking the ball every 5th day. So you felt like even if the cubs were a year or two away still from competing, it would be fine because you “know” Lester will be there healthy still by then. Rodon you don’t know when you can and can’t expect him to be healthy

Unfortuantely for him....you can pretty much expect him to be unhealthy. But I can't feel too sorry for him, he's already made more money than I'll make in my life time. In his career he's probably already made about $6 mill. That's how crazy it is. Average pay in US is about $40 grand....if you were making $100 grand it would take you 10 years to hit a million, 60 years to hit $6 million. To play fucking baseball....WTF. I don't see any pity parties in his future.

 

[CSF77]

Oh boy. Leave it to Gordon to stroke that fire.

Cubs rebuild doesn't scare Mets free agent Marcus Stroman

Mets free agent Marcus Stroman might be the most coveted starting pitcher this winter. See what he thinks about the Cubs as a potential destination.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[supertack]

Rodon will likely cost more and receive a QO. These guys will cost less and not also get a QO.

Rodon will be a dumpster fire on a multi-year deal....

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I just want to clairify something. I personally like Carlos Rodon....love his attitude and work ethic. You listen to him on
interviews and he comes across as a guy you pull for.....likeable, a good teammate. Trouble is the poor guy just can't stay healthy. Look at his last start which was only his 5th start since August 7th.....sure he did well but his velocity dropped off the chart, barely hitting 90. If the Cubs were looking to add a piece for a WS run, then sure....you might roll the dice on him. But that is few years away....right now, I believe they will be looking for low rent free agents that have a chance to have a year....then flip them at the deadline. Whether the Cubs have the money or not is irrelevant.....it's just not the right time to gamble big dollars on guy who gets hurt every season.

I don't think the recent issues are injury related but not enough innings the last few years related. People like him may get hurt a lot in their early years and then enjoy 5-7 years of injury free pitching.

 

[knoxville7]

Injury prone pitcher, and the take is…he just needs to throw MORE innings to find healthy success. These takes just keeping getting better and better…

 

[Zvbxrpl]

exactly. when the cubs signed Lester it was different. Lester had a pretty good track record of taking the ball every 5th day. So you felt like even if the cubs were a year or two away still from competing, it would be fine because you “know” Lester will be there healthy still by then. Rodon you don’t know when you can and can’t expect him to be healthy

Which is why I'm confused several here want/wanted to give him 7 years big $$$ or @CSF77 (edit*) wanting to give him 5 years in this thread, likely for big $$$.

I think he has disaster written all over him. Ton of mileage on that arm, one notably good year out of 7 (contract year after a prove-it 3 mil deal ironically) with the others being middling, injured, and/or bad. Oh, you're going to have to give up a draft pick for the QO, if you spend over 50$ mil on him its your 1st rounder--but with the cubs picking 7th--it becomes their 2nd rounder and 5th rounder unless they sign multiple QO FA's, then its more (towards bottom of page in link below).

The qualifying offer rules, explained

Any fan can understand and appreciate the excitement of a big offseason addition for his or her favorite team. But sometimes it feels like you need to be schooled in contract law to understand the ins and outs of baseball's Collective Bargaining Agreement, especially in regard to free agents...

www.mlb.com

Wont even touch the can of worms that is what the cubs pitchlab will do to alter Rodon kind of like how the Sox de-pitchlab'd/changed Craig Kimbrel. That's soooo much unnecessary risk, and you already have one albatross contract you can't get rid of.

 

[knoxville7]

Which is why I'm confused several here want/wanted to give him 7 years big $$$ or you wanting to give him 5 years in this thread, likely for big $$$.

I think he has disaster written all over him. Ton of mileage on that arm, one notably good year out of 7 (contract year after a prove-it 3 mil deal ironically) with the others being middling, injured, and/or bad. Oh, you're going to have to give up a draft pick for the QO, if you spend over 50$ mil on him its your 1st rounder--but with the cubs picking 7th--it becomes their 2nd rounder and 5th rounder unless they sign multiple QO FA's, then its more (towards bottom of page in link below).

The qualifying offer rules, explained

Any fan can understand and appreciate the excitement of a big offseason addition for his or her favorite team. But sometimes it feels like you need to be schooled in contract law to understand the ins and outs of baseball's Collective Bargaining Agreement, especially in regard to free agents...

www.mlb.com

Wont even touch the can of worms that is what the cubs pitchlab will do to alter Rodon kind of like how the Sox de-pitchlab'd/changed Craig Kimbrel. That's soooo much unnecessary risk, and you already have one albatross contract you can't get rid of.

Where did I say they should give him 5 years of big money?

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Where did I say they should give him 5 years of big money?

Apologies, meant for @CSF77 for his post #2 of the thread.

Started reading yours then found that one the tailed off.

 

[Diehardfan]

Where did I say they should give him 5 years of big money?

LOL, you guys are confusing me...which is very easily done these days. I didn't know what you meant by this till I noticed that I had only read @Zvbxrpl 's edited version.

​

 

[CSF77]

Apologies, meant for @CSF77 for his post #2 of the thread.

Started reading yours then found that one the tailed off.

5 year is a decent offer. 7 might be a reach.

That said there is rumor on Stroman so I am holding back to see what happens there first.

Stroman might end up the best pitcher on the market. And with the Cubs going #1 on a fast to the majors LH. Top pitching prospect LH and the pitcher of the year a 3rd LH not to mention Steel another LH.

I believe Jed will talk on both accounts but it would be unlikely that he would sign both.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I am reading that because of the CBA, there are top tier pitchers that would be willing to do one year deals. This would be amazing if true. The Cubs could really load up, and the benefit of a one year deal is flipping them if the Cubs can't make the playoffs.

Imagine loading up on Stroman, Rodon, Syndegard, etc.... You can easily pay them way too much money and have it work out long term.

 

[CSF77]

I am reading that because of the CBA, there are top tier pitchers that would be willing to do one year deals. This would be amazing if true. The Cubs could really load up, and the benefit of a one year deal is flipping them if the Cubs can't make the playoffs.

Imagine loading up on Stroman, Rodon, Syndegard, etc.... You can easily pay them way too much money and have it work out long term.

Stroman should get a term deal. 5/135 should be the starting point

I honestly see Jed going here and targeting Marcus because it makes a statement. This is not about a rebuild. This was a remodel.

If Jed signs Marcus then finds a way to remove Heyward. Gets Davis MLB ready for RF.

Payroll wise adding Stroman would put payroll around 100M. If they go 150M that opens up a short term lefty a pen vet and a decent bat.

Let's just look at it for a second.

Rotation:. Let's say 40M here.

Stroman
Hendricks
Let's say Pax on a 1 year.
3 way battle Thompson, Azolay and Mills
Steel.

Pen. I would stick at the 10M range

2 losers from the #4 battle.
Wieck & Morgan LH pen arms
Wick & Heuer RH set up.

So they need a closer.

Jed closed out with pitching will be the #1 priority and I can see him being aggressive on this front.

Now hitting, they will need a starting quality SS. Corry Seager is still my #1 hope. They will need a LH bat core hitter. Happ has too much instability to be dependent on.

So in short.

Dump Heyward. Push Davis to RF ASAP

Sign Stroman 25 AAV. then Seager 25AAV

sign a short term closer and short term LHSP. This is more of a value signing. Cubs have talent pending here and it makes sense to keep it short term and flexible.

So we are talking 4 guys and 70M added. With Nico freed up it puts PA's on him in the OF until Davis promotes then he shifts to a sub.

Over all this team is decent and should get better as talent breaks through. Not to mention plenty of trade depth for a run.