Poles Grade so far???

[TL1961]

Incomplete, trending towards D.

Decided to rebuild. Is rebuilding.

Elected to light the offense on fire and thus a year of Fields development.

Hired a defensive head coach for some reason.

The bitching about hiring a defensive coach is SO fucking off base.

 

[run and shoot]

I thought Laurence Holmes had a good rant on Poles yesterday:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583194739079188480

Pretty much says it all, to me. If Poles drafted Justin Fields, there is no way his off-season moves would have been the same as they were this year. No shot. This whole rebuild has been operated in bad faith, in regards to Fields development/evaluation.

If a GM walked in this spring and said they were going to tailor a rebuild around a rookie who was as abysmal as fields was last year, I would tell him to get the **** out.

It remains to be seen where poles is headed, but he began properly.
He cleaned out the trash and clutter that was left in his office on day one.
He balanced the invoices left behind.
Now he is looking to see what useful pieces are left.

Next year he starts with a clean slate, and we should begin seeing his fingerprints on the team.

Literally the best way you could describe fields when poles came in is a gigantic question mark- and that is being generous.
Is it so outlandish that poles would want to see which way the arrow is pointing before staking his entire tenure on who Justin was last year?

The video poses the question of bad faith JF development. Has or is JF being properly developed last yr or this yr?

 

[Bear_Assed]

The bitching about hiring a defensive coach is SO fucking off base.

You're not wrong, but the praising of Poles for cutting guys on shitty contracts is also SO fucking off base. It takes 0 talent to cut a player.

Poles had plenty of $ to bring in at least one above avg player for Fields. He chose to wait, hoping some good players would be cut by other teams that he could get on the cheap, and it completely backfired.

 

[TL1961]

People do understand one can learn how to get the ball out on time and read defenses regardless of the talent around you?

Saying we are wasting a year of Field's development is just asinine. Staring at an open Deebo Samuel and not pulling the trigger isnt a better outcome than staring at an open ESB and not pulling the trigger.

Further a better WR means that WR will be wide open more and Fields biggest issue is he needs to learn what NFL open is not what wide open is.

So think people are confusing Fields having better stats with better players with Fields developing.

The ideal outcome is Fields learns hoe to throw with anticipation and get the ball out on time while the Bears still lose because the talent is shit.

Het

You're not wrong, but the praising of Poles for cutting guys on shitty contracts is also SO fucking off base. It takes 0 talent to cut a player.

Poles had plenty of $ to bring in at least one above avg player for Fields. He chose to wait, hoping some good players would be cut by other teams that he could get on the cheap, and it completely backfired.

This is ridiculous. He is smart enough to know he’s not building for 2022

 

[Bear_Assed]

Het

This is ridiculous. He is smart enough to know he’s not building for 2022

LOL There's such a thing as a multiyear contract.

Not every contract in the NFL has to be a 1 year contract, contrary to what Poles whats you to believe.

 

[run and shoot]

Het

This is ridiculous. He is smart enough to know he’s not building for 2022

Het
Does that mean .....highly excited : upset. I just didn't wanna misinterpret

 

[napo55]

That is your opinion. Thanks for sharing it but I disagree. Sorry.

Well, I wish I was wrong, but I don't see these three becoming procuctive receivers. Appreciate the civil conversation.

 

[remydat]

Well, I wish I was wrong, but I don't see these three becoming procuctive receivers. Appreciate the civil conversation.

Maybe they wont but 6 games isnt enough time to make that determination. Hell it has been 0 games for Harry and 3 for Jones.

 

[Canth]

The grade on Poles should be incomplete. Just way too soon for that.

He was generally very conservative in FA. He drafted what he believed was BPA for each pick. Reasonable minds can question the VJJ pick both for the pick and for not trading down at that point rather than make that VJJ pick (assuming one could find a trading partner).

In a vacuum, you can look at each of the moves by Poles and understand the thought process in the context of rebuilding a team. However, you definitely wish he had done a lot more for the offense.

He admitted that the failed signing of Ogunjobi meant he missed opportunities for other players. So, they prioritized a 3T, had the medical and their other targets for a bigger contract probably already had agreements to sign elsewhere. It sucks, but I would rather them stick to their guns on a medical evaluation than sign a guy for a bunch of money that can't live up to the contract because of injury.

 

[napo55]

Maybe they wont but 6 games isnt enough time to make that determination. Hell it has been 0 games for Harry and 3 for Jones.

Well, ESB and Pettis are in their 5th year and Harry in his 4th. It's not like they're rookies. True, Jones is a rook, but was widely considered to lack receiving skills. We will see...

 

[airtime143]

a player with 1 year under his belt is a legacy player?
View attachment 23367

Legacy= pre existing. When used in a tech or hardware context, a legacy component is a component in use that if fails is replaced by a newer, more up to date version.
A very appropriate description of a questionable piece from the prior management that may or may not be up to the task.

Are you choosing to be obtuse, or do you really not get the point?

I will make it easy on you.
Poles had a pre existing first round draft pick from the previous regime that was costly and for all intents and purposes an unknown skill wise.
Poles had no option but to keep him and play him in order to assess his worth.

Hence the statement "he had a couple of legacy (pre existing from previous regime) guys he was forced to roll with (in order to see where they fit moving forward, being that they are complete unknowns).

 

[Collins77]

He gets an Incomplete. Let's bring this back week 1 of next year.
Edit.....I didn't read previous posts. Looks like I'm parroting previous comments. ???

 

[cameronkrazie86]

I don't like giving grades out based on there being half a season still to be played.

That said, my biggest criticism prior to the season starting was I didn't like the receiving group and I didn't like that their biggest addition was a 26 yr old 6th year college receiver in the third round. I really, really wanted them to go WR-WR or WR-OL with those first two picks rather than spending that draft capital on Safety and CB. When they went WR in the 3rd round, I didn't like that they went with someone so old (football wise) because it generally means limited upside and frankly, the Bears title window isn't likely any time soon. If he does need more development, by the time he's good, his prime is almost over. I just didn't feel like they did enough to improve the offense either now or for the future.

Things I did like to this point - I like playing the young offensive linemen. I'd rather lose with Jones/Borom at tackle than play a veteran retread even if it means more sacks/pressures. I like that they gave Jenkins a chance to earn his way back into the lineup and that now he's excelling at RG. They still need help across the board on the OL but at least they're giving 3 young players an opportunity to see what they've got. If say 2 of the 3 turn out to be average to above average players in 2-3 seasons, then it was absolutely worth it. I'd like to see them take a couple more OL in the draft next year too.

I also liked moving on from Mack and wish another team had made an offer on Quinn (don't know whether someone did or didn't so I will assume since he's here, that no one did) so they could've moved on from him too when his value was at its apex. I'm fine with moving on from Roquan if there's a good enough offer as I don't love the idea of paying $15-20 million on a linebacker. Secondary appears to be good now so that is one positive of going defense first in the draft. Linebacker + defensive line is an area to look for upgrading over the course of the next couple offseasons.

Overall, I'd say incomplete. I'm glad they're ripping off the bandaid off on the big contracts and bottoming out but do wish they could've gotten at least one positive WR contributor to go with Mooney after they made the decision to go S-CB.

 

[Bear_Assed]

I think most people giving him an incomplete are just unwilling to admit their new GM did next to nothing to improve the team in his first year. And are holding out hope he isn’t as bad as his first year.

If he was strapped for cash in FA, I can see not bringing in a single above avg player. But we all know he had plenty of $ and chose to do nothing. And did almost nothing in the draft to help fields, the most important player the bears have had in decades.

A rebuild requires adding good players not just subtracting.

The only way I would understand not adding any good players in the first year is if he blew the team up entirely, to get as many picks as possible and ensure the #1 pick in the draft, which he didn’t (Quinn, Roquan, Etc are still on the team)

 

[The Hawk]

I think most people giving him an incomplete are just unwilling to admit their new GM did next to nothing to improve the team in his first year. And are holding out hope he isn’t as bad as his first year.

If he was strapped for cash in FA, I can see not bringing in a single above avg player. But we all know he had plenty of $ and chose to do nothing. And did almost nothing in the draft to help fields, the most important player the bears have had in decades.

A rebuild requires adding good players not just subtracting.

The only way I would understand not adding any good players in the first year is if he blew the team up entirely, to get as many picks as possible and ensure the #1 pick in the draft, which he didn’t (Quinn, Roquan, Etc are still on the team)

With the salary cap in the NFL rebuilding does mean subtracting some good players namely ones who are getting older and have big time salaries. He did what he had to do in order to rebuild. As far as ensuring the number one pick in the draft by tanking, how do you develop Fields when the opposition can just kill him on the field?

 

[36special]

The bitching about hiring a defensive coach is SO fucking off base.

I agree but also disagree. The problem is not having hired a D coordinator as our new HC but him then hiring someone thats never coordinated an offense or have a ton of experience developing a young offense was a mistake on both the GM and rookie HC. Sometimes these things work out and some times they don't. Main issue is that not many out there expected us to win much this year based on our talent level and talent issues are GM issues.

Honestly, I am hoping a few of our younger players surprise us and start figuring it out. Fields in particular. I'm rooting for the kid.

 

[Payton!34]

I am still of the opinion that the overall plan makes sense but am apprehensive about our future due to the players that Poles did bring in both via free agency and the draft.

He was supposed to be an offensive line guru with having played the position himself as well as the assistant GM he brought in that helped the eagles build the best offensive line or top three in the league.

It’s too soon to judge this draft yet but Poles looks like he’s going to be Pace 2.0, an eye for defense but the offensive player selections were a bit curious as well grading the guys he brought in from free agency.

Patrick got a lot of hype and has been horrific. Let’s say for arguments sake that his play was hindered due to injury and that he’s a better center than guard. We can only hope! But the Dakota Dozier, Davenport signings worried me, that’s akin to thinking bringing in Mike glennon was a good idea.

Then bringing in Reiff and schofield hasn’t exactly looked good so far. These two I believe are serviceable average linemen. Poles doesn’t want to pay Reiff so even if he was marginally better it wasn’t worth the money to let him play.

I think Braxton Jones looks really good for a fifth round rookie playing LT but is he the LT we want playing for this team?

I do think however that when Whitehair returns that the inside could be much improved and hope they do. Whitehair, Patrick amd Jenkins up the middle could be formidable. Maybe schofield plays well and Patrick still plays like shit, you could move Whitehair to center where I think he could be all pro would be best case scenario.

Leatherwood signing only bothered me bc we took on the contract, so Poles must really like him bc most people thought he would clear waivers.

 

[Bear_Assed]

With the salary cap in the NFL rebuilding does mean subtracting some good players namely ones who are getting older and have big time salaries. He did what he had to do in order to rebuild. As far as ensuring the number one pick in the draft by tanking, how do you develop Fields when the opposition can just kill him on the field?

Exactly! This is Point! How do you develop Fields without giving him any help at all! Poles did nothing!

 

[The Hawk]

I don't like giving grades out based on there being half a season still to be played.

That said, my biggest criticism prior to the season starting was I didn't like the receiving group and I didn't like that their biggest addition was a 26 yr old 6th year college receiver in the third round. I really, really wanted them to go WR-WR or WR-OL with those first two picks rather than spending that draft capital on Safety and CB. When they went WR in the 3rd round, I didn't like that they went with someone so old (football wise) because it generally means limited upside and frankly, the Bears title window isn't likely any time soon. If he does need more development, by the time he's good, his prime is almost over. I just didn't feel like they did enough to improve the offense either now or for the future.

Things I did like to this point - I like playing the young offensive linemen. I'd rather lose with Jones/Borom at tackle than play a veteran retread even if it means more sacks/pressures. I like that they gave Jenkins a chance to earn his way back into the lineup and that now he's excelling at RG. They still need help across the board on the OL but at least they're giving 3 young players an opportunity to see what they've got. If say 2 of the 3 turn out to be average to above average players in 2-3 seasons, then it was absolutely worth it. I'd like to see them take a couple more OL in the draft next year too.

I also liked moving on from Mack and wish another team had made an offer on Quinn (don't know whether someone did or didn't so I will assume since he's here, that no one did) so they could've moved on from him too when his value was at its apex. I'm fine with moving on from Roquan if there's a good enough offer as I don't love the idea of paying $15-20 million on a linebacker. Secondary appears to be good now so that is one positive of going defense first in the draft. Linebacker + defensive line is an area to look for upgrading over the course of the next couple offseasons.

Overall, I'd say incomplete. I'm glad they're ripping off the bandaid off on the big contracts and bottoming out but do wish they could've gotten at least one positive WR contributor to go with Mooney after they made the decision to go S-C

That's a good assessment. I do hope that they go after a good left tackle in free agency. Jones played right tackle for two years and he could conceivably could win the Right Tackle competition with Borom moving to right guard next year. I do think that Smith gets undervalued because he doesn't fit some of Bear's fans views of what a top linebacker is. A lot of that is that bear fans have been spoiled by how great our linebackers have been. But Smith is a very good linebacker and has a very top end motor. Getting a great DT and another good LB/DE for this defense could result in the Bear's having an excellent defense starting next year and beyond.

 

[bamainatlanta]

He brought in a bunch of FA’s on 1 or 2yr deals. He’s interested in seeing if a few of them stick around with the majority just being roster fodder. Some of y’all are just fucking meatballs looking for a grade just 6 games in. Same thing Carroll did in Seattle & Roseman in Philly. This isn’t hard.