Police Who Shot Homeless Man 11 Times Over Stolen Coffee Will Not Be Charged

Crystallas

Three if by air
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 25, 2010
Posts:
20,016
Liked Posts:
9,558
Location:
Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
I'm not pro or anti-cop. But seems to me if you want to support your police, that's fine, as long as you understand that the criminal justice system is full of weeds that need to be pulled.

Cops are not above the law. And excessive force is a direct conflict with the 8th Amendment.
 

Crystallas

Three if by air
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 25, 2010
Posts:
20,016
Liked Posts:
9,558
Location:
Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
Why not just shoot a knee?

Or break his arm.

[video=youtube;zXqPU_9JyvY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXqPU_9JyvY[/video]
 

jooo83

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 16, 2013
Posts:
2,901
Liked Posts:
1,374
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. DePaul Blue Demons
Shawon's problem is he's looking at this as an isolated incident, as opposed to realizing that officers are becoming more and more willing to use lethal/excessive force in non-lethal/non-excessive situations.

What is your evidence for this? I'm genuinely interested.
 

ijustposthere

Message Board Hero
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
34,252
Liked Posts:
26,379
Location:
Any-Town, USA
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Michigan Wolverines
  2. Purdue Boilermakers
What is your evidence for this? I'm genuinely interested.

There's a lot of examples. Some guy just got off after police pulled him over and beat him. Think he was facing five years jail time and the officers tried to conceal one of the dash cam tapes that let him off and put them under fire. They've actually been charged. I'm sorry but I don't have links in front of me. I just read the stories normally. Look up police brutality on google, you'll find plenty that goes almost uncovered. Some of it though, is horseshit. They might post a video of a cop beating someones ass without any context as to what started the altercation.
 

Nail Polish

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
28,167
Liked Posts:
10,726
Shawon's problem is he's looking at this as an isolated incident, as opposed to realizing that officers are becoming more and more willing to use lethal/excessive force in non-lethal/non-excessive situations.
You have to look at each situation by itself. Each has their own unique circumstances. Ya can't lump em all together..I do know 1 thing..When a cop shoots someone, the vetting process is brutal. Outside agencies even get involved..That's why I'm stumped as to why the cops in the OP weren't charged...We must not be getting it all. That's a frequent occurrence when ya get a video...Something had either been left out, or the clip was edited in some way. I've seen dozens that have been done like that

Even the Rodney King Video didn't show the whole story
 
Last edited:

Nail Polish

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
28,167
Liked Posts:
10,726
One thing I've found to be helpful is to go to the local newspapers for the story instead of some blogger who usually has an agenda

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/09/prosecutor_milton_hall_homicid.html

"The initial call came in at 1:50 p.m. July 1 from the Mobile gas station across the street from the Riverview Plaza on West Genesee in Saginaw.




ccording to the time on the video, the shots were fired at 2:09 p.m.

Thomas said 47 shots were fired. Eleven of those shots hit Hall. Ten of them hit his arms and legs, and one gunshot caused his death.

Kanu Virani, the Saginaw County Medical Examiner, completed an autopsy on Hall's body. Thomas said Virani found that one gunshot entered Hall's pancreas and killed him.

Thomas said officers requested a "bean bag gun," but the lieutenant at the department did not have access to the room where it was locked.

"The officers didn't go out and shoot him right away when he was threatening the first officer," Thomas said, adding that the officers looked for non-lethal options.

He said he's not talking about the shooting being "justified" but whether the officers "committed a criminal act."

"The officers' lives were dangered," he said. "Especially the officer with the dog, and the dog."

Thomas said the state police interviewed 20 sworn witnesses throughout the 10-week investigation.

He said one witness, who came forward about two weeks ago, wrote down everything she saw that day and provided that information to investigators.

"All you're hearing today is from two prosecuting authorities who have criminal jurisdiction for the county of Saginaw. Both have said we don't feel we saw criminal intent, and we are not issuing criminal charges," Thomas said.

He added that the Department of Justice denied a request from him to participate in an investigation.

"Whether or not they are performing an independent investigation depends on what the source of your information is," Thomas said, elaborating that he is not aware of an investigation.



"The caller stated that a man was walking out of the gas station with a coffee and hadn't paid. She added that he spit on the clerk's face. One Saginaw police officer responded to the gas station and then went across the street to the plaza parking lot.

Hall approached her car, and the officer saw him remove a knife from his pocket, Thomas said.

In police scanner traffic, the officer responding called for backup. A dispatcher radioed that there was a man armed and dangerous.

The responding officer can be heard saying, "We can't let him get out of this area, he's going to kill somebody."

Eight officers responded, Thomas said. They were the only officers on patrol duty that day.

"Officers repeatedly said, 'Put the knife down, put the weapon down.' (Hall) said, 'No, I ain't putting it down. I ain't putting this (expletive) knife down. You're gonna have to bust a cap; I'm not gonna put the knife down.' And (Hall) refused every command of every officer out there to disarm himself," Thomas said as he was reading from audio transcripts.

Thomas said that one witness stated an officer yelled out for Hall to drop the weapon. The witness, according to Thomas, said that Hall refused.

Thomas said that Hall's response, according to witness testimony, was, "Nope, some mother (expletive) is gonna die today."

"He said, 'Some mother (expletive) is gonna die today. It's gonna be me, or it's gonna be you," Thomas said.

In the video, which was taken by the camera on the second police car that arrived, Hall can be seen holding his knife out in his right arm.

A K-9 handler and the police dog were standing in front of Hall. The other seven officers were in a semi-circle around him.

There was no audio with the video because the police microphones were not working properly, Thomas said.

Thomas explained the video before he showed the officers shooting Hall.

"You can see the knife in his right hand. He takes four or five steps toward the officer and police dog, and the officers shot at that time," he said.

Six of the eight officers fired their weapons. Thomas said the K-9 handler did not fire because he was holding onto the police dog, and the eighth officer was switching from his Taser to his gun and did not fire."
 

Nail Polish

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
28,167
Liked Posts:
10,726
One thing I've found to be helpful is to go to the local newspapers for the story instead of some blogger who usually has an agenda

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/09/prosecutor_milton_hall_homicid.html

"The initial call came in at 1:50 p.m. July 1 from the Mobile gas station across the street from the Riverview Plaza on West Genesee in Saginaw.


The caller stated that a man was walking out of the gas station with a coffee and hadn't paid. She added that he spit on the clerk's face. One Saginaw police officer responded to the gas station and then went across the street to the plaza parking lot.

Hall approached her car, and the officer saw him remove a knife from his pocket, Thomas said.

In police scanner traffic, the officer responding called for backup. A dispatcher radioed that there was a man armed and dangerous.

The responding officer can be heard saying, "We can't let him get out of this area, he's going to kill somebody."

Eight officers responded, Thomas said. They were the only officers on patrol duty that day.

"Officers repeatedly said, 'Put the knife down, put the weapon down.' (Hall) said, 'No, I ain't putting it down. I ain't putting this (expletive) knife down. You're gonna have to bust a cap; I'm not gonna put the knife down.' And (Hall) refused every command of every officer out there to disarm himself," Thomas said as he was reading from audio transcripts.

Thomas said that one witness stated an officer yelled out for Hall to drop the weapon. The witness, according to Thomas, said that Hall refused.

Thomas said that Hall's response, according to witness testimony, was, "Nope, some mother (expletive) is gonna die today."

"He said, 'Some mother (expletive) is gonna die today. It's gonna be me, or it's gonna be you," Thomas said.

In the video, which was taken by the camera on the second police car that arrived, Hall can be seen holding his knife out in his right arm.

A K-9 handler and the police dog were standing in front of Hall. The other seven officers were in a semi-circle around him.

There was no audio with the video because the police microphones were not working properly, Thomas said.

Thomas explained the video before he showed the officers shooting Hall.

"You can see the knife in his right hand. He takes four or five steps toward the officer and police dog, and the officers shot at that time," he said.

Six of the eight officers fired their weapons. Thomas said the K-9 handler did not fire because he was holding onto the police dog, and the eighth officer was switching from his Taser to his gun and did not fire.




According to the time on the video, the shots were fired at 2:09 p.m.

Thomas said 47 shots were fired. Eleven of those shots hit Hall. Ten of them hit his arms and legs, and one gunshot caused his death.

Kanu Virani, the Saginaw County Medical Examiner, completed an autopsy on Hall's body. Thomas said Virani found that one gunshot entered Hall's pancreas and killed him.

Thomas said officers requested a "bean bag gun," but the lieutenant at the department did not have access to the room where it was locked.

"The officers didn't go out and shoot him right away when he was threatening the first officer," Thomas said, adding that the officers looked for non-lethal options.

He said he's not talking about the shooting being "justified" but whether the officers "committed a criminal act."

"The officers' lives were dangered," he said. "Especially the officer with the dog, and the dog."

Thomas said the state police interviewed 20 sworn witnesses throughout the 10-week investigation.

He said one witness, who came forward about two weeks ago, wrote down everything she saw that day and provided that information to investigators.

"All you're hearing today is from two prosecuting authorities who have criminal jurisdiction for the county of Saginaw. Both have said we don't feel we saw criminal intent, and we are not issuing criminal charges," Thomas said.

He added that the Department of Justice denied a request from him to participate in an investigation.

"Whether or not they are performing an independent investigation depends on what the source of your information is," Thomas said, elaborating that he is not aware of an investigation.



"The caller stated that a man was walking out of the gas station with a coffee and hadn't paid. She added that he spit on the clerk's face. One Saginaw police officer responded to the gas station and then went across the street to the plaza parking lot.

Hall approached her car, and the officer saw him remove a knife from his pocket, Thomas said.

In police scanner traffic, the officer responding called for backup. A dispatcher radioed that there was a man armed and dangerous.

The responding officer can be heard saying, "We can't let him get out of this area, he's going to kill somebody."

Eight officers responded, Thomas said. They were the only officers on patrol duty that day.

"Officers repeatedly said, 'Put the knife down, put the weapon down.' (Hall) said, 'No, I ain't putting it down. I ain't putting this (expletive) knife down. You're gonna have to bust a cap; I'm not gonna put the knife down.' And (Hall) refused every command of every officer out there to disarm himself," Thomas said as he was reading from audio transcripts.

Thomas said that one witness stated an officer yelled out for Hall to drop the weapon. The witness, according to Thomas, said that Hall refused.

Thomas said that Hall's response, according to witness testimony, was, "Nope, some mother (expletive) is gonna die today."

"He said, 'Some mother (expletive) is gonna die today. It's gonna be me, or it's gonna be you," Thomas said.

In the video, which was taken by the camera on the second police car that arrived, Hall can be seen holding his knife out in his right arm.

A K-9 handler and the police dog were standing in front of Hall. The other seven officers were in a semi-circle around him.

There was no audio with the video because the police microphones were not working properly, Thomas said.

Thomas explained the video before he showed the officers shooting Hall.

"You can see the knife in his right hand. He takes four or five steps toward the officer and police dog, and the officers shot at that time," he said.

Six of the eight officers fired their weapons. Thomas said the K-9 handler did not fire because he was holding onto the police dog, and the eighth officer was switching from his Taser to his gun and did not fire."
 

Nail Polish

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
28,167
Liked Posts:
10,726
http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2014/02/no_federal_charges_for_officer.html


“After a careful review of all of the evidence, experienced prosecutors from the Criminal Section of the Civil Rights Division and the United States Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Michigan have determined that the evidence in this case is insufficient to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the SPD officers willfully shot Hall for an unlawful purpose, rather than for their stated purpose of preventing Hall from harming SPD staff.

“Even if the officers were mistaken in their assessment of the threat posed by Hall, this would not establish that the officers acted willfully, or with an unlawful intent, when using deadly force against Hall.”
 

jooo83

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 16, 2013
Posts:
2,901
Liked Posts:
1,374
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. DePaul Blue Demons
There's a lot of examples. Some guy just got off after police pulled him over and beat him. Think he was facing five years jail time and the officers tried to conceal one of the dash cam tapes that let him off and put them under fire. They've actually been charged. I'm sorry but I don't have links in front of me. I just read the stories normally. Look up police brutality on google, you'll find plenty that goes almost uncovered. Some of it though, is horseshit. They might post a video of a cop beating someones ass without any context as to what started the altercation.

All due respect...I'd be willing to bet the exact opposite is true. Logic tells you that with the easily availability of video recording equipment that it would be far less likely for a police officer to get away with (or possibly attempt less often) unjustified lethal/excessive force.
 

Omeletpants

Save America
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
27,619
Liked Posts:
12,616
My favorite teams
  1. Colorado Rockies
  1. Atlanta United FC
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  2. Orlando Magic
  3. Phoenix Suns
  4. Sacramento Kings
  1. Columbus Blue Jackets
We killed the alligator that ate the DeLuca boy
 

ijustposthere

Message Board Hero
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
34,252
Liked Posts:
26,379
Location:
Any-Town, USA
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Michigan Wolverines
  2. Purdue Boilermakers
All due respect...I'd be willing to bet the exact opposite is true. Logic tells you that with the easily availability of video recording equipment that it would be far less likely for a police officer to get away with (or possibly attempt less often) unjustified lethal/excessive force.

And yet, there are plenty of examples out there where they simply do what they please because they rarely face significant punishment.
 

ijustposthere

Message Board Hero
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
34,252
Liked Posts:
26,379
Location:
Any-Town, USA
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Michigan Wolverines
  2. Purdue Boilermakers
That kid should have obeyed

Agreed. In that vid, doesn't look like they used excessive force. If they started clubbing him repeatedly or something, that'd be different.
 

Urblock

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
19,159
Liked Posts:
12,239
8 cops and a dog. Crazy **** with a knife. 47 shots with 11 hits. 47?
 

Shawon0Meter

PLAYOFFS?!?
Donator
Joined:
Feb 9, 2011
Posts:
5,444
Liked Posts:
2,774
Location:
Minnesota
The responding officer can be heard saying, "We can't let him get out of this area, he's going to kill somebody."



"Officers repeatedly said, 'Put the knife down, put the weapon down.' (Hall) said, 'No, I ain't putting it down. I ain't putting this (expletive) knife down. You're gonna have to bust a cap; I'm not gonna put the knife down.' And (Hall) refused every command of every officer out there to disarm himself," Thomas said as he was reading from audio transcripts.

Thomas said that one witness stated an officer yelled out for Hall to drop the weapon. The witness, according to Thomas, said that Hall refused.



"He said, 'Some mother (expletive) is gonna die today. It's gonna be me, or it's gonna be you," Thomas said.



In the video, which was taken by the camera on the second police car that arrived, Hall can be seen holding his knife out in his right arm.


"You can see the knife in his right hand. He takes four or five steps toward the officer and police dog, and the officers shot at that time," he said.


"The officers' lives were dangered," he said. "Especially the officer with the dog, and the dog."
Plenty of reasoning here why I feel the way I do
 

ijustposthere

Message Board Hero
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
34,252
Liked Posts:
26,379
Location:
Any-Town, USA
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Michigan Wolverines
  2. Purdue Boilermakers
Plenty of reasoning here why I feel the way I do

So lets spray 47 shots in broad daylight at a guy who can easily be disarmed with a taser. All their training, and the best solution they can come up with is to spray wildly at him? I call bullshit. They showed no concern for where those bullets went.
 

ijustposthere

Message Board Hero
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
34,252
Liked Posts:
26,379
Location:
Any-Town, USA
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Michigan Wolverines
  2. Purdue Boilermakers
And to Bearsbud, a "blogger" has an agenda but mainstream media doesn't?
 

Urblock

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
19,159
Liked Posts:
12,239
Last summer a 20 yr old girl was walking the family lab in the afternoon when a pit attacked. When the cop got there he went pussy and fired 7 shots. He hit the lab once and the pit ran away. Lab died.. I think he hit at least 2 apt buildings.
 

Top