Question for the non-meatballs

[Diddy1122]

The Hawks won't be very good. I don't even think they will be .500.

The Raptors were 13-18 last season with Andrea Bargnani and now they added Kyle Lowry and Calderon is coming off of the bench. And they added a true center in Jonas Valanciunas. They can fight for the 8th seed.

And if the Bulls lose Boozer or Noah for a while, while Rose is out, don't be surprised if the Bulls challenge for the worst record in the East.

Sure you take the 2 best players off of any team & of course they will struggle.

The Raptors were below .500 WITH Bargnani (whose is becoming injury prone btw). Lowry is decent but he doesn't put them into the playoffs. Nor does a 20yr old ROOKIE euro center. I just don't see it at all. The Pistons have a better shot at making the playoffs then the Raptors.

 

[Diddy1122]

Knicks/Nets/76ers/Bucks/Hawks/Raptors tier = between 35 and 48 wins.

35 wins is not getting you in the playoffs. The Bulls will not be that low in Win totals even without Rose.

Did people just suddenly forget that we have a future HOF coach at the helm? You think he's not going to be able to turn the new bench into something good fairly quickly? Hello? 2010 anyone? People knock the offseason moves, but what it did was provide financial flexibility in the future & a much needed scoring punch off the bench, something that absolutely KILLED us the past 2 seasons. I honestly feel this team is going to surprise all the doubters & haters when Rose is out. I'm sticking with no lower than a 5 seed, that's even WITH Rose potentially sitting out all season.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Couple things here...

Last year, without Rose for a good portion of the season, the Bulls were tied for the best record primarily because of their bench. I think the compacted schedule of last years season helped them, because the Bulls are a full throttle team. They play hard, some argue (me) they play that hard because they have to, but they were helped a lot last season because of how many games teams were playing in a week. With such a deep bench last year that was a plus in their side. With the full 82 game season, and it being stretched out, and with the uncertainty of their bench I don't see them winning those games this year that they did last year. Especially considering how much more rested opponents will be.

I'm going to be paying attention to the dynamic of this team, coached by Thibs, without its superstar. One criticism of Thibs is how hard he practices and plays these guys. (I still defend him for having Rose in the game against the Sixers) I really worry about this team imploding this year because of Thibs' style of coaching. He rides guys to the end, and if they aren't winning I wonder what that locker room is going to look like.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

35 wins is not getting you in the playoffs. The Bulls will not be that low in Win totals even without Rose.

Did people just suddenly forget that we have a future HOF coach at the helm? You think he's not going to be able to turn the new bench into something good fairly quickly? Hello? 2010 anyone? People knock the offseason moves, but what it did was provide financial flexibility in the future & a much needed scoring punch off the bench, something that absolutely KILLED us the past 2 seasons. I honestly feel this team is going to surprise all the doubters & haters when Rose is out. I'm sticking with no lower than a 5 seed, that's even WITH Rose potentially sitting out all season.

You're not going to like my post.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Sure you take the 2 best players off of any team & of course they will struggle.

The Raptors were below .500 WITH Bargnani (whose is becoming injury prone btw). Lowry is decent but he doesn't put them into the playoffs. Nor does a 20yr old ROOKIE euro center. I just don't see it at all. The Pistons have a better shot at making the playoffs then the Raptors.

Toronto has become one of the top PG teams in the NBA. DeRozan is bound to improve his all-around game and limit mistakes. Fields adds depth at the wing. Bargnani has become one of the better p&r defenders under Dwane Casey. And he will no longer need to play center which will help their team rebounding and defense.

Detroit doesn't have a better chance at making the playoffs than Toronto. Drummond or Knight would need to basically break out to give them a shot (Bargnani staying reasonably healthy is far more likely than either of those things to happen). Washington and Cleveland will likely be better than them.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

35 wins is not getting you in the playoffs. The Bulls will not be that low in Win totals even without Rose.

Did people just suddenly forget that we have a future HOF coach at the helm? You think he's not going to be able to turn the new bench into something good fairly quickly? Hello? 2010 anyone? People knock the offseason moves, but what it did was provide financial flexibility in the future & a much needed scoring punch off the bench, something that absolutely KILLED us the past 2 seasons. I honestly feel this team is going to surprise all the doubters & haters when Rose is out. I'm sticking with no lower than a 5 seed, that's even WITH Rose potentially sitting out all season.

Deng is not 100% and his shooting percentage inside suffered last year. If Noah or Boozer is out, this team is lottery-bound and Rose probably won't need to come back.

Their bench last year played great team defense. That will not be the case this year. Watson-to-Robinson; Asik-to-Mohammed; Korver-to-Belinelli; Brewer-to-Butler. Taj Gibson is capable of filling in some of Asik's role, thankfully. But the Bulls (at best) aren't better than Indiana. They are one injury from being horrible.

 

[Happy Human 1001]

I really worry about this team imploding this year because of Thibs' style of coaching. He rides guys to the end, and if they aren't winning I wonder what that locker room is going to look like.

I wonder about this too. It's all right to have a hard-nosed guy like Thibs on your case every second of every game when you're winning all the time.

If you start losing more often than you win and Thib's stays the same (or gets worse), nerves could start getting really frayed in the Bull's locker room.

 

[FirstTimer]

Couple things here...

Last year, without Rose for a good portion of the season, the Bulls were tied for the best record primarily because of their bench. I think the compacted schedule of last years season helped them, because the Bulls are a full throttle team. They play hard, some argue (me) they play that hard because they have to, but they were helped a lot last season because of how many games teams were playing in a week. With such a deep bench last year that was a plus in their side. With the full 82 game season, and it being stretched out, and with the uncertainty of their bench I don't see them winning those games this year that they did last year. Especially considering how much more rested opponents will be.

I'm going to be paying attention to the dynamic of this team, coached by Thibs, without its superstar. One criticism of Thibs is how hard he practices and plays these guys. (I still defend him for having Rose in the game against the Sixers) I really worry about this team imploding this year because of Thibs' style of coaching. He rides guys to the end, and if they aren't winning I wonder what that locker room is going to look like.

Best post in the thread.

Props to Prope.

 

[Diddy1122]

You're not going to like my post.

Funny thing is, I agree with alot of what you said. I also feel the schedule last year, combined with our depth & already cohesive chemistry was a big part of last season's success with all the injuries. However, there's been ALOT of movement in the NBA this off-season. Alot of teams are going to go through the same growing pains that we will in terms of bench play & some with starters. Look at the Nets. 9 new players. They aren't going to click right off the bat. We all know that thanks to the Heat's start in 2010.

As for Thibs riding his players into the ground, 1) I don't think that's the case at all. There are many coaches who run hard practices. Riley was notorious for it & he's won multiple titles. 2) Personally I find it ridiculous that hard practices is even an issue. These guys are grown men in better shape than the majority of men their age. Practicing hard should be expected. Going hard on every play should be expected. Full effort should be expected. This is, after all, their jobs. I highly doubt there will be lockerroom quarrels over Thibs style because the players who have played for him, have the utmost respect for his knowledge of the game & daily preparation. And don't think for a moment that Rose isn't going to be there every day in practice & on the bench during games pushing his teammates. They will follow his lead as they have in the past. That's not going to change just because he's not suiting up til potentially March.

 

[thechosenone]

1nd or 2nd round exit no matter when DRose returns

 

[thechosenone]

Btw Bulls bench this year is better than last year's bench. The Bulls last year had one of the worst benches in the league. I don't know why and who started this joke about the "bench mob power" but players like CJ Watson and Ronnie Brewer wouldn't make it even in Europe. No comment about Asik. Long live the Rockets. lol. The only guy that was good enough was Korver BUT he is old, slow and not athletic enough. I hope Belinelli won't be much worse than him. Marko Jaric is a great 3pt shooter too and a tough player.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Btw Bulls bench this year is better than last year's bench. The Bulls last year had one of the worst benches in the league. I don't know why and who started this joke about the "bench mob power" but players like CJ Watson and Ronnie Brewer wouldn't make it even in Europe. No comment about Asik. Long live the Rockets. lol. The only guy that was good enough was Korver BUT he is old, slow and not athletic enough. I hope Belinelli won't be much worse than him. Marko Jaric is a great 3pt shooter too and a tough player.

Seriously? I'd think they'd be pretty darn good. And actually, I think CJ already played in Europe before coming to the NBA so...:dunno:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Btw Bulls bench this year is better than last year's bench.The Bulls last year had one of the worst benches in the league. I don't know why and who started this joke about the "bench mob power" but players like CJ Watson and Ronnie Brewer wouldn't make it even in Europe. No comment about Asik. Long live the Rockets. lol. The only guy that was good enough was Korver BUT he is old, slow and not athletic enough. I hope Belinelli won't be much worse than him. Marko Jaric is a great 3pt shooter too and a tough player.

Wow........ just..... wow.

 

[thechosenone]

Seriously? I'd think they'd be pretty darn good. And actually, I think CJ already played in Europe before coming to the NBA so...:dunno:

Yeah seriously. ANd CJ played in Europe but he wasn't good. He sucked in a non elite Europe team. He averaged something like 7 points and 2 assists in 2 non elite European teams. Teams that didn't participate in Euroleague or Eurocup. In teams that if he was good enough he should have been the big star. I hope you don't want me to name you NBA players who were huge stars in ELITE European teams because you will be completely disappointed. CJ Watson is a player easily replaceable in the NBA, a much worse player than Robinson and maybe a much worse player than Teague. The only GOOD player the bulls had in the bench last year and they have him this year too is Gibson and maybe Butler (haven't seen him yet playing). Everyone else... No thank you. I can find you better players easily.

The Bulls bench last year wasn't as good as you say. Actually it was one of the worst benches in the league. The spurs and the 6ers for example had much better bench than the Bulls.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The Bulls bench last year wasn't as good as you say. Actually it was one of the worst benches in the league. The spurs and the 6ers for example had much better bench than the Bulls.

You just said they were one of the WORST benches in the league last season. Back that up. Name just 15-20 who were better.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Best post in the thread.

Props to Prope.

I try my best.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

As for Thibs riding his players into the ground, 1) I don't think that's the case at all. There are many coaches who run hard practices. Riley was notorious for it & he's won multiple titles. 2) Personally I find it ridiculous that hard practices is even an issue. These guys are grown men in better shape than the majority of men their age. Practicing hard should be expected. Going hard on every play should be expected. Full effort should be expected. This is, after all, their jobs. I highly doubt there will be lockerroom quarrels over Thibs style because the players who have played for him, have the utmost respect for his knowledge of the game & daily preparation. And don't think for a moment that Rose isn't going to be there every day in practice & on the bench during games pushing his teammates. They will follow his lead as they have in the past. That's not going to change just because he's not suiting up til potentially March.

I should clarify, because I don't think I did a real good job of it in that post.

When I say riding players, I don't mean expecting them to work hard. I mean tiring players out as the the season nears to the playoffs. I look at a guy like Pop in San Antonio, and he does a very good job of hitting the breaks during the season to make sure his team is rested for the playoffs. I don't know if Thibs has learned that yet.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Yeah seriously. ANd CJ played in Europe but he wasn't good. He sucked in a non elite Europe team. He averaged something like 7 points and 2 assists in 2 non elite European teams. Teams that didn't participate in Euroleague or Eurocup. In teams that if he was good enough he should have been the big star. I hope you don't want me to name you NBA players who were huge stars in ELITE European teams because you will be completely disappointed. CJ Watson is a player easily replaceable in the NBA, a much worse player than Robinson and maybe a much worse player than Teague. The only GOOD player the bulls had in the bench last year and they have him this year too is Gibson and maybe Butler (haven't seen him yet playing). Everyone else... No thank you. I can find you better players easily.

The Bulls bench last year wasn't as good as you say. Actually it was one of the worst benches in the league. The spurs and the 6ers for example had much better bench than the Bulls.

I wish you would qualify that assertion with more than Euroleague stats.

 

[Diddy1122]

I should clarify, because I don't think I did a real good job of it in that post.

When I say riding players, I don't mean expecting them to work hard. I mean tiring players out as the the season nears to the playoffs. I look at a guy like Pop in San Antonio, and he does a very good job of hitting the breaks during the season to make sure his team is rested for the playoffs. I don't know if Thibs has learned that yet.

I think this "riding" players idea is a bit out of whack in general. In 2 seasons as head coach, Thibs has had a fully healthy roster for maybe 30 total games. None of this is due to him wearing down his players. Nearly every injury the past 2 seasons has been due to freak falls or nasty collisions. And yes I am speaking partially about Luol Deng, since this is the 1 player constantly mentioned when this "issue" is brought up. Deng has been played extensively because 1) his perimeter D is the best on the team & he often is asked to guard the team's best opposing wing player, who generally plays alot of minutes; & 2) He can handle it. Deng is one of the better conditioned athletes in the NBA. He never stops training all year.

So to sum up what I should have just said in few words, I don't agree with you on this one.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

:shrug: