Reality is settling in nicely.

BIGGIEsmalls 23

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Yes Houston did have well thought out management in this deal and got a bit lucky. Right place, right time.
There was no reason for GarPax to not go after Harden.

It was well known that once OKC gave Westbrook & KD max contracts, they were not gonna be inclined to give one to Harden. Years ago, I predicted that they would have to choose between Harden & Ibaka. I figured they would choose Ibaka because of his defense, considering Harden's offense was more of a simple luxury to them with KD & Westbrook being prolific NBA scorers.

Houston watched the situation unfold before it even happened, like I did. GarPax should have been doing the same.
 

Scoot26

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There was no reason for GarPax to not go after Harden.

It was well known that once OKC gave Westbrook & KD max contracts, they were not gonna be inclined to give one to Harden. Years ago, I predicted that they would have to choose between Harden & Ibaka. I figured they would choose Ibaka because of his defense, considering Harden's offense was more of a simple luxury to them with KD & Westbrook being prolific NBA scorers.

Houston watched the situation unfold before it even happened, like I did. GarPax should have been doing the same.

Right time, right places, right place. Houston had all of that. OKC wanted a scoring SG in return for Harden. Did Chicago have that? Nope. They did not. The Bulls had Deng, Boozer, and Noah to offer, and OKC didn't want any of that. They may have taken Noah and something but in the end they wanted someone who could replace Harden's scoring.

I don't defend GarPax at every round, but I'm realistic about it. I look at the trade that was made, and say could Chicago really offer what that team was looking for? In just about all cases, its a sound no.
 

clonetrooper264

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Right time, right places, right place. Houston had all of that. OKC wanted a scoring SG in return for Harden. Did Chicago have that? Nope. They did not. The Bulls had Deng, Boozer, and Noah to offer, and OKC didn't want any of that. They may have taken Noah and something but in the end they wanted someone who could replace Harden's scoring.

I don't defend GarPax at every round, but I'm realistic about it. I look at the trade that was made, and say could Chicago really offer what that team was looking for? In just about all cases, its a sound no.
Hit it on the dot. If Deng was a SG then maybe we could've made something happen, but we didn't have what they were looking for. It's ironic though since they basically only got Jeremy Lamb out of that deal. Though if he proves himself to be legit, it could be not quite the "OMG WTF WERE YOU THINKING?!?" kind of trade it's being viewed as now.
 

Scoot26

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Hit it on the dot. If Deng was a SG then maybe we could've made something happen, but we didn't have what they were looking for. It's ironic though since they basically only got Jeremy Lamb out of that deal. Though if he proves himself to be legit, it could be not quite the "OMG WTF WERE YOU THINKING?!?" kind of trade it's being viewed as now.
While OKC made a logical decision in deciding to keep Ibaka, I think it was a terrible idea. That trio of Harden-Durant-Westbrook is good enough to rival the Heat and sign some serviceable defensive free agents to the team (or draft really well) and you're gold. Granted they would need to find a lot of post help from somewhere.
 

BIGGIEsmalls 23

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Right time, right places, right place. Houston had all of that. OKC wanted a scoring SG in return for Harden. Did Chicago have that? Nope. They did not. The Bulls had Deng, Boozer, and Noah to offer, and OKC didn't want any of that. They may have taken Noah and something but in the end they wanted someone who could replace Harden's scoring.

I don't defend GarPax at every round, but I'm realistic about it. I look at the trade that was made, and say could Chicago really offer what that team was looking for? In just about all cases, its a sound no.
Good points, man.

I truly believe a "creative" Bulls FO (enlisting a 3rd team) would have found a way to pair Harden up with Rose. We would have been set for a decade.

Let's revisit what OKC actually received for Harden:

OKC received Kevin Martin (left after one season), Jeremy Lamb (spent time in D-League last season, but is looking decent at 10 ppg so far this season), & Toronto's lottery pick (ended up as #12).

I don't see why a package of Deng (to 3rd team in exchange for a Kevin Martin-type expiring guard), Charlotte lottery pick, & Mirotic is a bad package. Hell, I would have even added one of our future 1st round picks. I don't see how this package pales in comparison to the package from Houston.
 

Scoot26

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Good points, man.

I truly believe a "creative" Bulls FO (enlisting a 3rd team) would have found a way to pair Harden up with Rose. We would have been set for a decade.

Let's revisit what OKC actually received for Harden:

OKC received Kevin Martin (left after one season), Jeremy Lamb (spent time in D-League last season, but is looking decent at 10 ppg so far this season), & Toronto's lottery pick (ended up as #12).

I don't see why a package of Deng (to 3rd team in exchange for a Kevin Martin-type expiring guard), Charlotte lottery pick, & Mirotic is a bad package. Hell, I would have even added one of our future 1st round picks. I don't see how this package pales in comparison to the package from Houston.

Because three team trades are hard to piece together. This isn't NBA 2k where its as easy as anything. You gotta make sure salaries match, other teams even want to get involved, etc. Everyones in it for themselves for one reason or another, if the Bulls couldn't find another team to finda reason to be in this trade, they're kidna handicapped. Rumors went on for quite some time involving Harden too, so I assume OKC was having a hard time finding a trade they did like.
 

scottiepippen1994

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The Bulls have way too many issues going on. All of which are contributing to embarrassing losses to teams they should beat. First off, Rose sucks right now. He is playing way too passive. Yes, he attacks the rim, but only every so often. He has fell in love with his shaky jumpshot and is seemingly too stubborn to stop taking those shots and drive to the rim. He needs to force the refs to make the call and he's not doing that. Which is shown in his low FTA's. Too many times (like last night) he will pass the ball to start the offense, and never touch it again because he ran to the corner and hid. He score THREE WHOLE POINTS last night in the second half. THREE!!! If this isn't infuriating to Bulls fans, I don't know what is.

It's glaringly obvious that Mgt. is inept and clueless. They had chances to surround Rose with good talent and get a decent scorer and they whiffed on all of them. They didn't get the Aldridge deal done, which should've been a no brainer. They let Iggy sign with GSW, Ellis sign with DAL and Nate walk. Any other capable scorer is gone and we got Dunleavey. Yes, that was the big help the Bulls needed. ANOTHER Duke player. Because we've won sooo many titles with them, wait. Brand, Duhon, Williams, Reddick (though he got matched by ORL), Deng, Boozer. It's obvious these character players aren't going to win anything, Paxson just keeps going to the well. Only to get the same results.

Coaching is terrible. Spare the records, the stats, and all of that bullshit. He is a terrible game manager and runs his guys into the ground which leaves them often hurt or injured come playoff time. And for all of those "Best record in the NBA" that we shared with SAS, it got us exactly where? I know Rose was hurt one of those seasons, but the point remains is that he feels it's perfectly fine to play Deng 40 minutes a night, even in blowouts. He runs them hard in practice and in games and the Bulls under him have been nothing more than a M*A*S*H unit. IMO it is time for him to go, but we are stuck with him for the next three seasons (Thanks Pax). We need a coach that understands that a healthy team come May is more important than running the Bobcats out of the building with your starters still in the game. And don't even get me started on his refusal to play young players. They didn't draft Snell to ride the bench, he needs to play. He needs to play Teague, so he can get more experience. If they don't get it now, when will they? THere is no reason to have a 7-8 man rotation this early in the season. Fire his ass!!!

The rest of the players are what they are. Boozer has been solid offensively at times, but they need to amnesty him already. Deng has had a good run, but he's maxed his talent, time to dangle his expiring contract and get a capable scorer. THey need to sign a good player in the off-season to help Rose whom I expect to regain his form. Right now this team is a mess from the top down. And if they are going to go forward with this trash play and inept management, then they really need to consider firing everybody and starting over.

*prepares for the hate*

LoL

Youre late.

I attempted to make 2 threads about this the last week.

Unfortunately it was deleted to silence the truth.

Did you forget to mention paxsons plan to set himself up for the draft?

I think there should be a "FIRE JOHN PAXSON AND HIS PUPPET" thread.
I thought there should of been one years ago..........
But, like said, anytime i tried to share that truth, i got heat for it on this forum.

Guess nobody wants to read things like this.

Only happy talk.......Dont want to get Chrys mad....:)

LoL
 
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BIGGIEsmalls 23

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Because three team trades are hard to piece together. This isn't NBA 2k where its as easy as anything. You gotta make sure salaries match, other teams even want to get involved, etc.
I realize that this is not NBA 2k, but teams pull off "creative" trades all the time in the real NBA. Unfortunately, it seems that our FO is incapable of doing it.

Everyones in it for themselves for one reason or another, if the Bulls couldn't find another team to finda reason to be in this trade, they're kidna handicapped.
Of course every FO is in it for themselves. That's why GarPax get paid the big bucks. They have the same opportunities to make "creative" trades that every other NBA FO has.

Rumors went on for quite some time involving Harden too, so I assume OKC was having a hard time finding a trade they did like.
I followed Harden closely for a long time because I had been targeting him as the perfect running-mate with Rose. His name was in the news because he wanted more than OKC was offering, but I don't remember any rampant trade rumors swirling around him. Matter of fact, his name began to come up in trade discussions only a few days before the proposed Houston deal became public. I remember the media being stunned once the deal became official.
 

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While OKC made a logical decision in deciding to keep Ibaka, I think it was a terrible idea. That trio of Harden-Durant-Westbrook is good enough to rival the Heat and sign some serviceable defensive free agents to the team (or draft really well) and you're gold. Granted they would need to find a lot of post help from somewhere.
If Ibaka was as good offensively as he was defensively, then clearly it's a no brainer in their case to keep Ibaka. Unfortunately, he's a defensive big man and against the Heat, all that's good for is 6 more fouls. Though their post play would be SEVERELY lacking without Ibaka on the roster, even defensively, so you can make the argument there. Ibaka isn't total trash offensively, he's just not a post player in the David West mold that can force the Heat to play big.
 

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OKC could have kept Ibaka and Harden.

.... If they chose not to give Perkins that stupid ass deal. Or if they amnestied Perkins.
 

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There was no reason for GarPax to not go after Harden.

It was well known that once OKC gave Westbrook & KD max contracts, they were not gonna be inclined to give one to Harden. Years ago, I predicted that they would have to choose between Harden & Ibaka. I figured they would choose Ibaka because of his defense, considering Harden's offense was more of a simple luxury to them with KD & Westbrook being prolific NBA scorers.

Houston watched the situation unfold before it even happened, like I did. GarPax should have been doing the same.

Are you proposing that Westbrook and Rose play in the same backcourt together? Or were you thinking of trading Rose? Can't see them being a good fit defensively given their dimunitive size and lack of length.
 

clonetrooper264

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OKC could have kept Ibaka and Harden.

.... If they chose not to give Perkins that stupid ass deal. Or if they amnestied Perkins.
Clearly Perkins is the key to victory :obama:
 

BIGGIEsmalls 23

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Are you proposing that Westbrook and Rose play in the same backcourt together? Or were you thinking of trading Rose? Can't see them being a good fit defensively given their dimunitive size and lack of length.
Huh?

None of my posts have even mentioned Westbrook in a Bulls uniform.
 

Axl Rose

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trading harden will go down as one of the worst moves ever
 

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I keep hearing that the Bulls have "gotten worse" and that this is evidence that management is inept. I don't get this.

During preseason, I compared the current team to the 62-win 2010-11 team like this:

PG: 2011 had Rose at about 36 minutes and Watson for the remainder. This season you have Rose for 35 and Hinrich for the remainder. Should be a wash.

SG: 2011 had Bogans for 18 minutes, Brewer for 20 and Korver for 10. This season, you should have Butler for about 30, Dunleavy for 10 and Hinrich for 8. I give a strong edge to the current team.

SF: 2011 had Deng at about 34 minutes, Korver for 10 and Brewer for the remainder. This season, Deng will probably be at about 32 minutes, Dunleavy at 10 and Butler at about 6. I give the slight edge to the current team.

PF: 2011 had Boozer at about 25 minutes, Gibson 20 and Deng the remainder. This season, Boozer will probably go around 26 minutes, Gibson 15 with Deng and Dunleavy taking the remainder. A wash.

C: 2011 had Noah at about 33 minutes, Asik at 12 with Kurt Thomas and Boozer taking the remainder. This season, I'd expect Noah for about 30 minutes, Gibson for 10 and Mohammed the remainder. I think Noah's a better player now than then, but the 2010-11 team gets the edge by virtue of Asik.

Net, if this year's team can stay healthy, they're at least as talented as the 62-win team. I realize that in 4 whole games they haven't looked that way, but a lot of good basketball ought to come out of this group.
 

BIGGIEsmalls 23

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Net, if this year's team can stay healthy, they're at least as talented as the 62-win team. I realize that in 4 whole games they haven't looked that way, but a lot of good basketball ought to come out of this group.
Good breakdown in the rest of your post, Transplant. However, I see the underlined as a big "if". We have been waiting for this team to stay healthy for years & it hasn't happened. I'm not blaming it solely on Noah, Kirk, Taj, & Deng.......I'm pointing the finger at Rose, as well.

I'm not freaking out over 4 games. I've always stated that Rose will not be back to form until around the all-star break & I don't believe that Noah is fully healthy/conditioned yet. It's gonna take some time.

The issue that I have is that we have no one that's capable of carrying the load while Rose shakes off the rust & effects from the ACL tear. When a team is equipped with a #2 consistent scorer, they're able to maintain until the franchise player is back to form. We don't have that luxury & that falls on GarPax, IMHO.
 

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Why was there so much discussion about OKC? Who cares what they did?

This is about the Bulls and they need offensive help. This is not going to cut it. Their game plan seems to be a few weave plays, pick and roll, and Give Rose the ball and everybody get out of the way. That's not going to beat anybody come playoff time. They a set offensive system, like the Triangle. (Note: I'm NOT saying they need the triangle, I'm throwing a name out there for an example.) Or a the Princeton Offense. I'm just naming schemes, not saying they need those specific ones. (Some people don't understand context)

And when will they get Rose a capable scorer? They should look at Ferdette or somebody that won't cost much, but can shoot. They don't need a superstar, they just need someone to take pressure off of Rose. Dunleavey ain't it. Kirk ain't it, and Butler could be, but he's not there now. Time to move the Dookies and get some real players in here. This experiment with using Dook players has failed and will continue to fail.
 

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