sach1
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Losing can only make winners stronger, better and wiser. As long as he will never stop trying he will have his time someday.
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If Rose started crying after Game 5 in public, I would have been pretty disturbed by that.
But you are right. Bulls fans would have excused his showing weakness and shrugged it off as caring so much.
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Crying isn't showing weakness at all IMO..whether you are sad or happy.
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In my opinion, it is showing weakness. You can't go around shedding tears after losses... especially if you are the leader of a team. This is a league that is rooted by masculinity and if you want a mental edge over an opponent, you can't be crying after losses. It shows lack of composure, and it is ammunition future opponents can use against you.
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LOL at this meatball shit.
Bosh cried after a loss in the NBA Finals.
Rose got "depressed" after a loss in the ECF. Does anyone in the NBA in their right minds think those two guys are "less masculine" because they expressed sadness or disappointment in a loss in a certain way?
Jordan cried after wins. Pippen cried after a loss in the ECF. Was Pippen less masculine or did people have a mental edge over him when he came back the next few seasons and won three more titles with Jordan? Does anyone today question Pippen's manhood?
Dirk Nowitzki litterally ran off the court and into hiding to cry after the Finals. Is that weakness? No of course not.
Jordan after losses got pissed off and threw guys like Horace Grant under the bus. IMO that's a bigger issue than "crying" or getting depressed. Jordan got a pass because he won and it was seen as "fire". Crying after wins or losses isn't a sign of weakness, it's a showing of emotion. Different people express it different ways.
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Crying after a championship win is completely different.
Crying after a loss is unacceptable as the leader of a team. I don't see any way around that. And Pippen had a very obvious lack of mental toughness against Detroit for years before he finally stopped overreacting to hard fouls. Pippen finally grew a pair after getting his ass handed back to him by Laimbeer and Rodman from '88-'90.
If you really think crying after losses is socially acceptable in an NBA lockerroom then you must be incredibly naive.
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How?
How is it not sign of weakness? That you aren't strong enough to contain those emotions and they come out as crying?
Same deal as after a loss, just a different outcome of the game.
1. Bosh isn't the leader of the Heat.
2. The actual leader of the Bulls and the MVP of the damn NBA was so mentally shot by losing that he spent 5-6 days held up in his house "depressed". How is that ANY better than Bosh crying immedietly after losing the NBA Finals?
Yeah I'm sure Bosh was openly weepeing after every loss. Are you mentally handicapped? Seriously. I'm discussing Bosh crying after ONE game, the Final game of the NBA Finals. Crying after "losses" in general I would imagine is REALLY fucking rare in the NBA and even if you want to make the lame argument that the Heat "cried" all season long and are somehow less masculine, or mentally weak then I don't have much faith in Rose or the Bulls since LeBron, Wade, and Bosh clowned them in crunch time for the entire ECF even after getting blown out in Game 1.
I highly doubt that a less than masculine team, or mentally weak team could have pulled that off against a veteren team like the Celtics, and then the Bulls.
This place never ceases to amaze me with the absurd meatball shit posters say.
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It's not the same deal as a loss because, as irrational as it may be, crying after losses gets you ridiculed by the media. Therefore, there's more incentive to try to hold those tears back after a loss until a camera isn't in your face.
I am not calling Bosh a *****. I still think he would have been much better off if he managed to hold his tears back for a few more feet. He is going to be called a fagg*t and a ***** from now until forever.
It's better because he didn't cry. I don't make the rules. If you cry, you get laughed at and ridiculed and are subject to trash talk.
When did I say that? Classic... putting words in my mouth.
Over generalizing again. But in the case of Bosh, he goes out and beats his chest. He talks trash after he fouls somebody and pretends as though he's this tough guy and then he cries. That's where the finger pointing comes in; because he's a hypocrite.
Again, putting words in my mouth.
You're cute.
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Talk about missing the point.
Simply because dipshits in the media harpoon a guy for it doesn't mean the media is right or the reaction of the media is right.
You're seriously using the media as your backing for your mindset on this?
I don't give two shits what "the media" thinks about this. I'm able to think for myself. Apparently that is rare at this site.
Talk about hypocrisy.
Cry in public= labeled as a ******
Cry in the lockerroom= better off.
So "crying" to you isn't the issue it's where it's done at?
Get fucking real.
Crying after a win or loss is essentially the result of the same thing "weakness" or inability to control a strong emotion. I don't see it as weakness at all, hence the quotes. Crying is what it is.
Yeah and I'm sure Rose won't get shit for going all Howard Hughes for a week after a loss in the ECF.
Bosh cried for how long after the Finals that we know of? 5 minutes? An hour? Two?
Rose was all mopey and gloomy for a week in his house. Tell me what sounds "weaker".
This should be your avatar. It sums up your reading abilities.
You said "crying after losses" in an incredibley general manner. I was all along talking about Bosh crying after ONE very important loss...which I go on to put in context in the very next sentence. The point is really clear. How the hell did you not get it?
I hate to crush your world but "tough guys" cry. Michael Jordan was tough enough to punch Steve Kerr in practice then cry over a trophy. For as "mentally tough" as Pippen was he still pouted in 1994. Pippen as tough as nails. A few moments in time to the exception doesn't make them hypocrits, it makes them human and shows they have emotions.
You directly correlated crying after losses to mental toughness and composure.
I didn't put any words in your mouth.
You said it yourself.
STFU.
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It's not only about the media. You are going to be judged irrationally by your teammates and your opponents. That's enough to try to hold back tears. Never did I say that was that big of a deal or that crying should not be tolerated. The only thing that I implied was that there are consequences for that.
My entire point was players (especially team leaders) should try to avoid cameras if they are going to cry after a loss. And I've already explained why.
That's the rational way of seeing it and I agree with you. Unfortunately, that's not how most people see it. They look at crying after a title win an excusable moment. The exuberation after all the work it takes to win a title is a moment that is hard to just pass off and show zero emotion. Players are more or less expected to show little emotion until that point. If they cry before that point, they are going to be called out. I don't agree with it in every case, but the players should look to avoid it generally.
Same thing. He won't get shit because he handled it behind closed doors and we don't know what he was doing or thinking. The issue was crying after losses in front of the whole world. Emotions happen but when players can't keep it together, they are going to get called out.
It seems as though you are living by a double standard where it is cool to pick on Rose being emotional. But when people point at Bosh then that's "meatball shit."
This should be your avatar. It sums up your reading abilities.
You said "crying after losses" in an incredibley general manner. I was all along talking about Bosh crying after ONE very important loss...which I go on to put in context in the very next sentence. The point is really clear. How the hell did you not get it?
They are all important losses... your point is lost there.
I simply prefer that the best player on the team doesn't cry after getting bounced from the playoffs. Jordan never did that.
I directly correlated how far you can get between the court and away from the cameras to mental composure. And it's true.
Bosh being a complete basketcase doesn't mean the Heat have a team full of softies. Wade, James, and a bench full of veteran guys doesn't equate the Heat as soft team. Bosh is soft, and it has a lot more to do with the fact he couldn't hold his tears back long enough.
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It's funny how you look to pick a fight, FT, because you jump to conclusions about what people actually mean.
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And seriously... comparing MJ hauling off an punching Kerr/threatening Cartwright and Grant/doing asshole things to crying in front of the cameras in this day and age and subjecting yourself to all kinds of criticism is comparing apples to oranges.
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By what players? Players that were crushed after a Finals loss and can sympathize with him? You really think that if that many players had an issue with it that it wouldn't have blown up with a bunch of morons on twitter or in the media?
What are the consequences? Bosh comes back next year and continues to clown the league with the Heat and win 60 games-65 games? Boozer already refuses to acknowledge him and Bosh seemed to be mentally tough enough to dry hump Noah and him up and down the court.
Yeah they should avoid cameras, do it in the locker room in front of their teammates.....which you already said was bad...
Do you REALLY honestly think any of Bosh's teammates think less of him for crying? If you are on the Heat would you?
Then most people are tards.
The disappointment after all the work it takes to win a title is a moment that is hard to just pass off and show zero emotion.
Is that really that large of a difference?
Who, of any importance, was Bosh "called out" by?
............................ Wut?
Have you not been following along with anything I've been saying or any point I've made?
Yeah. I remember how important the loss in the 2nd to last game of the Bulls 1995-1996 season was.
What?!
Not every loss is "important". Some losses matter more than others. Losing Game 6 of the Finals>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Losing game 43 of the season.
That we know of.
You'd just prefer that they act like complete dickheads to their teammates.
It's not true. Because Bosh more than likely doesn't even know that camera is there at that moment..and franklyif you're determining someone's mental toughness on not crying for 30 seconds you're an idiot.
Odd. Bosh wasn't "soft" when people wanted him here. Now he's soft that he's with the Heat. Must be the humidity.
Also, it was rumored James cried after a regular season loss. So the best player on the Heat is soft too?
Yet they still with all this softness made Chicago's dick shrink in crunch time of the ECF. I remember how "soft" I though Lebron and Bosh were when they were stomping on Noah and Rose down the stretch and at times when Noah wasn't even on the floor for those critical stretches.
It's funny how you make a statement then try and backpedal from it and don't stand behind it.
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Yeah because those things don't show an inablity to control an emotion.
:rolling:
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The point is we don't know the full extent of what damage it might cause on the court. We know what KG and Noah and Jason Terry will be saying in Bosh's ear the next time they play on the court. Stuff like this can fuel the other team and affect Bosh's confidence going forward.
If I were Bosh, I'd rather cry in front of my teammates than, both, my teammates everybody in the world.
I won't argue that point.
I understand that there's emotion involved any way you slice it. But I still think it may come back to haunt him that it went down in the way that it did.
I personally don't agree with the social stigma, but it is seen differently by the masses of idiots out there. And the masses of idiots don't exclude opposing players who will get in your head.
Well, after "some guys cried" in the Heat locker room, ESPN and many players jumped all over them.
Crying again isn't going to help the image of Bosh. Even if he wasn't one of those guys who cried the first time, it is not going to help his 'tough guy' image that he tries to front with.
Something may have gotten lost in translation but I saw that you were making a point about how Rose being mopey could be construed as worse than what Bosh did. I don't think it will because those are two completely different kind of emotional reactions; Bosh's reaction was obviously less socially acceptable. That was my point.
I may have been wrong, but it seemed as though you were saying that Rose's reaction to losing the Conference Finals was a little bit much seeing as he wasn't in the Finals when he lost like Bosh was.
The 'that we know of' part is a key part to note. If he did, we don't know it and nobody else probably did either.
And, yes, I actually do prefer that they act like dicks. Being a dick seems to correlate to being a winner in professional sports.
Crying after a loss is seen as a weakness. I don't really agree with that, and I certainly wouldn't say that it makes you a ***** and what-not. But I do think he should have been smart enough to realize that cameras are going to be flooded through that tunnel. It is the NBA Finals that has just ended. You know for a fact that the media wants to get a shot of the losing teams' players- especially since the Heatle hate is so strong.
I called Bosh soft before he got here. I was one of the few people saying Dirk would be far more ideal than Bosh or Boozer.
It was rumored that "some guys" cried after that loss to the Bulls. If he cried or not, I don't think anybody in their right mind would call James soft. And he was smart enough to do it behind closed doors if he actually did cry.
I didn't call the Heat soft. I called Bosh soft and the rest of his teammates added enough tenacity and toughness to make up for that. They were flat out better than the Bulls and just deep enough to make it look easy.
In your original response, you went off on a tirade based on a couple of general statements I made. So... yeah. I rest my case.
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The difference is that those things have two completely different sets of consequences.
Jordan will be seen as an asshole by many people, through all walks of life, for all the bad things he's done.
Bosh will be seen as a crybaby/*****/etc. because he cried after a loss.
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Yeah Noah has real room to talk about Bosh beat his ass on the floor. Same with KG.
And again, what consequences have there been? Like I said wouldn't logically this thing blow up on twitter with guys, on TV, radio etc if it were THAT big of a deal. There are plenty of loud mouthed NBA players and no one that I can recall said shit about it.
I really doubt most NBA players care or think less of Bosh.
You also never answered my questions:
Do you REALLY honestly think any of Bosh's teammates think less of him for crying? If you are on the Heat would you?
You should have just posted this to begin with.
And no one did when Bosh did it after the Finals...
See the point?!
Virutally no one cares or sees anything wrong with it.
My point was that in the Bosh thread people jumped all over him for crying for a few mintues(that we saw). Rose goes Howard Hughes recluse and depressed and predictably Bulls fans circle the wagons:
"Losing makes winners stronger"
"Well I can feel with him. Nothing worse than working your ass off and come back home with empty hands! "
"That's why we love Rose...He genuinly cares about the game.."
"But seriously, that will give him a ton of motivation for next season at least. DRose is going to be even more of a beast. "
Frankly, I find nothing wrong with that either of them did. Neither is "worse" to me.I was asking you which "sounded" worse to prove/disprove your point of social perception.
Except when Wade, Bosh, and James were dicks to the NBA the entire season.
Well duh. "Softness" aside Dirk is the vastly surperior player.
Fixed.
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My favorite teams
Dick Vermeil routinely cried after football games. He never lost the respect of his players.