Report: Javy Báez turned down Cubs' $180 million extension offer prior to 2020 season

[knoxville7]

it’s definitely a risk. It looks like he’s back to old KB though. I think old KB is a special hitter everyday of the week, a top 5 third baseman and a guy that can carry your offense. My bad I’m fired up after that grand slam lol. But KB + nico + Contreras + happ isn’t a bad core to build around honestly.

i mean, it’s fine to keep one or two of these guys as long as the rest of the offense is diversified to balance out the two that are kept. Nico seems like a high contact hitting guy, so he makes sense to keep around. If you could get a more reasonable contract length with KB, I could be open to it. Maybe like a 5 year deal? Happ, I don’t think he’s worth a damn really. Sure, he can play a bunch of positions but he isn’t very good defensively at any of them, and he’s another guy you can count on striking out a third of his at bats. No thanks on keeping him long term

 

[CSF77]

i mean, it’s fine to keep one or two of these guys as long as the rest of the offense is diversified to balance out the two that are kept. Nico seems like a high contact hitting guy, so he makes sense to keep around. If you could get a more reasonable contract length with KB, I could be open to it. Maybe like a 5 year deal? Happ, I don’t think he’s worth a damn really. Sure, he can play a bunch of positions but he isn’t very good defensively at any of them, and he’s another guy you can count on striking out a third of his at bats. No thanks on keeping him long term

It makes no sense dumping Happ until Davis is ready. But I would wait a bit on this year before pushing the eject button. Something is mechanically off with him. ISO .046 and a BABIP of .213 are both out of line with his career averages. His ISO avg is .233 and BABIP .321.

I would send him to the alt site if Joc didn't get injured to get his swing under the microscope and fixed.

 

[knoxville7]

It makes no sense dumping Happ until Davis is ready. But I would wait a bit on this year before pushing the eject button. Something is mechanically off with him. ISO .046 and a BABIP of .213 are both out of line with his career averages. His ISO avg is .233 and BABIP .321.

I would send him to the alt site if Joc didn't get injured to get his swing under the microscope and fixed.

and yet, his strikeout rate is right in line with his career avg of 31.5% at 31% this season. So yeah, while he isn’t AS bad as a .145 hitter, he isn’t anything special either. The cubs should want nothing to do with extending this guy, and thus in a season where the cubs are going to be mediocre...it makes sense to listen to offers for the guy before the entirety of the league has figured out what we already know...he’s mediocre

 

[CSF77]

That is a fair argument. But the Cubs hold Arb2 and 3 over him. Davis should be at high A this year. They might push him to Tenn but the Cubs are very conservative with player development.

So what I said still holds true. Sit on him until Davis is ready. Basically that is 2 years and sure if Ian is still a 30% wiff rate then you let him walk and give CF to Davis.

But in 2 years a lot can happen so it is better to let time dictate vs pushing it.


Regardless the Cubs have control of their OF for a bit of time. Joc 2022. Happ till 2023. Heyward 2024. So I can see 2023 Davis taking over CF and Happ moved to left then the following year a corner OF F/A signed.

Regardless the Cubs should focus on extending Contreras. SS they have Nico if they let Javy walk. (Like he would ever take a walk).

3B Bryant if he sticks around 25 AAV. he goes north QO. Market sucks so Bote or target Story for 3B and run Nico at SS.

2B Sogard.

1B Rizzo if he takes 5/100. He wants more than the market is deep and you might get a 1B convert or move Contreras there and start Amaya at catcher. Which is my preference. Personal catcher and off day 1B. That way the Cubs can have a bat first corner IF to create flexibility vs holding a dead bat on the bench.

But I would like to see 1 bat invested into and 1 arm.

Rotation wise the Cubs have control over Hendricks, Arreta, Williams and Alozay. Marquez should be on a innings limit and sure I wouldn't mind him in the pen in 2022 to limit his arm use and gain knowledge of the league.

Thor is on the market and I can see him being shyed away from. That opens up a performance based contract with opt years and scalers.

 

[CSF77]

But a what if 2022.

Hoerner SS
Sogard 2B
Story 3B
Contreras C/1B
Pederson LF
Happ CF
Heyward RF
Amaya 1B/C

Bote corner IF and 2B

Rotation

Thor
Hendricks
Arreta
Alzolay
Williams

Long relief Mills

Marquez and Maples as high pressure SO needed.

Wick Set up
Kimbrel closer

Rest are interchangeable with Iowa. I wouldn't lock up contract on filler.

 

[knoxville7]

because the cubs have 2 more years of control of Happ, is all the more reason to trade him this season as it will yield a better return than hanging onto him a couple more years and then trading him will. 1,349 Plate appearances is enough to tell he’s always going to be a high strikeout guy...that’s not going to change.

 

[CSF77]

because the cubs have 2 more years of control of Happ, is all the more reason to trade him this season as it will yield a better return than hanging onto him a couple more years and then trading him will. 1,349 Plate appearances is enough to tell he’s always going to be a high strikeout guy...that’s not going to change.

If he has no value then he will equal Schwarber or Almora. No one trades for trash.

 

[knoxville7]

If he has no value then he will equal Schwarber or Almora. No one trades for trash.

youre missing my entire point. That’s why I’m saying you trade him this season by the deadline while he still has SOME value, instead of waiting a year or two when he will have none likely

 

[CSF77]

youre missing my entire point. That’s why I’m saying you trade him this season by the deadline while he still has SOME value, instead of waiting a year or two when he will have none likely

View attachment 11467

So let me get this strait.

He has little value. Has no power right now. Strikes out at 30%. Sounds like Schwarber and Schwarber got cut vs traded.

Value is based off of current value. Low value is low value. High value is high value. Control means more high value or more low value.

Teams are looking at a player that bounced back in a short season then went back to the guy who went to AAA.

Schwarber was this guy before. He did t get this mystical return. He got the axe.

So again I don't get your point.

 

[CSF77]

As of right now there are 4 players with high trade value.

Bryant
Contreras
Arreta
Kimbrel.

Because they are 'successful'

No one wants another teams problem unless it is a problem for a problem.

Now if Happ lites up at gets his BA up to .260 with a .350 OBA again. Sure the trade value will increase but it won't be this high yield trade. We are talking about a pen arm in return. It is because his history is unstable and not a chain of success that demands a quality return.

Now if he came out of the gate as the 19-20 hitter then sure. Most teams are looking at his strike out rate right now. 30% which is 5% over last year and his ISO is at a all time low.

As of right now he should be sent to the alt site to fix his issues vs waste PA's on outs.

Trade value... Right now he needs to keep from going to the minors.

 

[knoxville7]

So let me get this strait.

He has little value. Has no power right now. Strikes out at 30%. Sounds like Schwarber and Schwarber got cut vs traded.

Value is based off of current value. Low value is low value. High value is high value. Control means more high value or more low value.

Teams are looking at a player that bounced back in a short season then went back to the guy who went to AAA.

Schwarber was this guy before. He did t get this mystical return. He got the axe.

So again I don't get your point.

of course you don’t...this isn’t surprising that you lack the cognitive ability to understand something this simple to grasp

 

[CSF77]

of course you don’t...this isn’t surprising that you lack the cognitive ability to understand something this simple to grasp

No you are lacking the common sense to understand that teams do not give up quality players for bad players.

You have gone on this diatribe for a while on Happ and his poor track record and his high strike out rate and his avg or below D.

But now you are saying that he has trade value?

Is this the same trade value Almora had? Another 1st round player that came up short and not given arb? Or Schwarber who was let go because Jed didn't want to keep paying for underperformance?

Because that is what happens when the ticket costs too much and the teams are not knocking. They would rather watch Jed cut him and then sign him for cash vs talent.

Teams pay for 'quality'. Not underperformance.

The exception is a track record of 'quality'. Like Bryant that has seasons of 4+ fWAR to back up his sale.

Happ has been a 1.5-1.9 fWAR talent EVERY YEAR.

Schwarber had a 2.6 and a 3.2 season. Jed couldn't get shit.

Almora had 2. 1.1 seasons as a back up. Again Jed couldn't get shit.

So again you said that Jed should get something while the getting is good? Minus fWAR is not defined as good. Jed getting anything of quality has not been a thing yet. When he gets spare parts for a ace it is not defined as good.

So I'll flip this around.

You are an idiot. You believe that Happ has trade value right now when he is a all time low. And believe that a person that sucks at trades can get something more than a bag of balls for him.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

No you are lacking the common sense to understand that teams do not give up quality players for bad players.

You have gone on this diatribe for a while on Happ and his poor track record and his high strike out rate and his avg or below D.

But now you are saying that he has trade value?

Is this the same trade value Almora had? Another 1st round player that came up short and not given arb? Or Schwarber who was let go because Jed didn't want to keep paying for underperformance?

Because that is what happens when the ticket costs too much and the teams are not knocking. They would rather watch Jed cut him and then sign him for cash vs talent.

Teams pay for 'quality'. Not underperformance.

The exception is a track record of 'quality'. Like Bryant that has seasons of 4+ fWAR to back up his sale.

Happ has been a 1.5-1.9 fWAR talent EVERY YEAR.

Schwarber had a 2.6 and a 3.2 season. Jed couldn't get shit.

Almora had 2. 1.1 seasons as a back up. Again Jed couldn't get shit.

So again you said that Jed should get something while the getting is good? Minus fWAR is not defined as good. Jed getting anything of quality has not been a thing yet. When he gets spare parts for a ace it is not defined as good.

So I'll flip this around.

You are an idiot. You believe that Happ has trade value right now when he is a all time low. And believe that a person that sucks at trades can get something more than a bag of balls for him.

Jed really doesn't have this awful history in trades that you claim. It should be broken down into two separate categories. Buying trades/selling trades. Buying teams have less leverage generally and often come out on the losing end. Selling he has actually faired pretty well. Pieces he got in selling were a valuable part of the run we had over the last 6 seasons. Although the good players he got were just luck per you.

 

[knoxville7]

No you are lacking the common sense to understand that teams do not give up quality players for bad players.

You have gone on this diatribe for a while on Happ and his poor track record and his high strike out rate and his avg or below D.

But now you are saying that he has trade value?

Is this the same trade value Almora had? Another 1st round player that came up short and not given arb? Or Schwarber who was let go because Jed didn't want to keep paying for underperformance?

Because that is what happens when the ticket costs too much and the teams are not knocking. They would rather watch Jed cut him and then sign him for cash vs talent.

Teams pay for 'quality'. Not underperformance.

The exception is a track record of 'quality'. Like Bryant that has seasons of 4+ fWAR to back up his sale.

Happ has been a 1.5-1.9 fWAR talent EVERY YEAR.

Schwarber had a 2.6 and a 3.2 season. Jed couldn't get shit.

Almora had 2. 1.1 seasons as a back up. Again Jed couldn't get shit.

So again you said that Jed should get something while the getting is good? Minus fWAR is not defined as good. Jed getting anything of quality has not been a thing yet. When he gets spare parts for a ace it is not defined as good.

So I'll flip this around.

You are an idiot. You believe that Happ has trade value right now when he is a all time low. And believe that a person that sucks at trades can get something more than a bag of balls for him.

its almost as if you’ve never seen a baseball trade deadline before. All it takes is one GM that thinks Happ can turn it around. All it takes is for one GM to fall for him being a switch hitter that can play multiple positions. It’s almost as if when this discussion started, I said it’s worth seeing what offers you get for the guy while he still has SOME small value instead of waiting a year or two when he will have none(like your pathetic almora/schwarber comparisons). But, this is apparently too difficult for you to understand. Also, I never said you’d get some quality players for Happ. But you might be able to get a lottery ticket or two. Enjoy being the pompous idiot with someone else now...

 

[CSF77]

its almost as if you’ve never seen a baseball trade deadline before. All it takes is one GM that thinks Happ can turn it around. All it takes is for one GM to fall for him being a switch hitter that can play multiple positions. It’s almost as if when this discussion started, I said it’s worth seeing what offers you get for the guy while he still has SOME small value instead of waiting a year or two when he will have none(like your pathetic almora/schwarber comparisons). But, this is apparently too difficult for you to understand. Also, I never said you’d get some quality players for Happ. But you might be able to get a lottery ticket or two. Enjoy being the pompous idiot with someone else now...

Trades at the dead line are more so about a buyer looking to make a impact signing 'Castalanos' or a starting pitcher. Or a closer.

The vast majority are injury fill.

I feel that you just post stuff like this because you want the player gone and create value where there is none.

If you were saying Baez then yes I would agree with you. He has posted 2 seasons with 4+ fWAR and Wong a GG at a premium position. A team would buy at low talent rate just to take payroll off of Jed. The only way Jed is getting talent is by eating most of the remainder.

Bryant on the other hand is killing it. Jed can use him as a blue chip ransom .

Happ lacks a track record and holds less value than both. So sure if the Cubs take say Zach Godly who you can pick up off a waver. A team might consider it. But a quality talent?

Look at the Cubs trade off history. Dempster, Garza, Feldman etc. All sold at highest value.

This is not me being arrogant. This is me telling you what has happened. The current situation. And the most likely outcome.

Your reaction of saying pompus is the same as any name calling a 5 year old yells while overmatched.

 

[knoxville7]

It’s pompous not pompus

 

[Tillman33]

youre missing my entire point. That’s why I’m saying you trade him this season by the deadline while he still has SOME value, instead of waiting a year or two when he will have none likely

View attachment 11467

I know guys like Bryant and Rizzo were un-tradeable after last season, but they missed a window of opportunity to sell on Contreras and Happ.

Contreras could have net what Realmuto got, maybe more with both NY teams in the market, 2 full years of control, 2 all star starter selections, and noticeable framing improvement.

Anybody that watched Happ last year knew what he was doing was not sustainable, haha. He should still be a serviceable fringe everyday player, but could have easily been sold as an “emerging power corner outfielder or center fielder entering his prime”.

The Cubs need to go for quality over quantity now. Get one dude like Jerred Kelenic, Luis Robert or Fernando Tatis, Juan Soto. I really hated that Darvish trade. That was the opportunity to get one of those franchise changing guys at the top of the lineup. Set the foundation and build from there. Obviously not Tatis or Robert or Soto but they could and should have tried to get a top 10 prospect into the system instead of all these kids 5 years away.

Don’t understand how 50 year old Cruz can do what he’s doing but the Cubs have a machine at their headquarters where they can print as much money as they want and throw it into the air and they have been looking for that guy for 5 seasons

 

[Discus fish salesman]

It’s pompous not pompus

Albert Alozay lol. He's been misspelling words and players names on a consistent basis for years

 

[CSF77]

Albert Alozay lol. He's been misspelling words and players names on a consistent basis for years

When your goto is Grammer vs talking about content then you have lost.

 

[Bust]

8 years 180-200 mill? Honestly, I would do it. He’s a special hitter.

Naw. Let him walk