Rizzo call-up... In June?

[dabynsky]

Rizzo was up last year for a while.

I've seen all this talk about Rizzo's "clock starting" but I believe it started last year didn't it?

He was up last year, but I've always read that it is time on the 25 man roster that counts towards service time. Hence Rizzo isn't earning any time right now in Iowa. Mlbtraderumors had a chart of some of the big time prospects earning super 2 and or extra year of control. I believe if Rizzo stayed down until late June or early July would prevent Rizzo from having a year of service time at the end of this season. Again that is what I've been reading in multiple sources and my limited knowledge of the cba.

 

[FirstTimer]

He was up last year, but I've always read that it is time on the 25 man roster that counts towards service time. Hence Rizzo isn't earning any time right now in Iowa. Mlbtraderumors had a chart of some of the big time prospects earning super 2 and or extra year of control. I believe if Rizzo stayed down until late June or early July would prevent Rizzo from having a year of service time at the end of this season. Again that is what I've been reading in multiple sources and my limited knowledge of the cba.

Sounds right.

Just saying I haven't heard or read anything definitive on it, nor has it been mentioned in any recent articles as far as a rationalization for keeping him at AAA. Seems to be the cry of the fans right now so not sure if it was/is true.

 

[Rice Cube]

I'm guessing if they're hell bent on having Rizzo up (not to mention he's making it hard for them to keep him down) that they probably don't care about the extra year. Only 25-man roster time counts towards MLB service, and Rizzo was up for a month or so in SD so that's why they can't bring him up in May, they have to wait until late-June if they do care about the extra year.

I don't really care anymore since it's not my money :lol:

 

[Rice Cube]

There's a certain day-cutoff for "one year" of MLB service, I guess I could Google it. Let's see...

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/how_many_service_days_is_a_service_year/

Sounds like 172 days is a service year. Any less than that and he can't accrue the full year.

According to his B-Ref page, Rizzo has 68 days of service. How many days are left in this season? There are something like 121 games left so just find the game where they can guarantee he won't be up for another 100 games and that's about when you should expect him.

That might be around the next White Sox series, actually.

 

[Rice Cube]

The season ends on October 3. If you assume he doesn't get called up until June, that's 30 + 31 + 31 + 30 + 3 days of season, or 123 days. That means that to keep that seventh year in play, Rizzo cannot be called up until around June 23 or so. DL time does count towards service time so they can't fake an injury. If they really just want him up for interleague they can try to send him back down for seasoning until after the ASG, but once he's up, he's up. The players' union wouldn't take too kindly to a send down just to suppress service time.

 

[daddies3angels]

i look at this 2 ways.

1: It sucks they not playing there best players cause of money. Cubs are big market and shouldnt be worried about saving 5 mil or so cause of 1 more year service time

2: With team so bad not like he comes here and makes the team competitive. So why not save that 1 yr so in 6 yrs when they are suppose to be good they still have that 1 yr avaible

 

[dabynsky]

You do realize 1 directly contradicts 2?

 

[daddies3angels]

You do realize 1 directly contradicts 2?

i know... why im so torn.

 

[dabynsky]

2 is the right answer.

Anyways I didn't realize the Cubs only had two series in AL parks this year. That makes me think the odds of Rizzo coming up for the Twins series. I bet the Sox series is when Rizzo comes up agiven that Rizzo will stay up when called up and that would be enough time to avoid the extra year. Just guessing but given the available evidence and rice's rough figuring that ought to be when it happens.

 

[daddies3angels]

2 is the right answer.

Anyways I didn't realize the Cubs only had two series in AL parks this year. That makes me think the odds of Rizzo coming up for the Twins series. I bet the Sox series is when Rizzo comes up agiven that Rizzo will stay up when called up and that would be enough time to avoid the extra year. Just guessing but given the available evidence and rice's rough figuring that ought to be when it happens.

i agree 2 is the right answer. Just tough to watch this team in the last week. We all knew though once Campy and LaHair come down to earth they have hard time scoring runs. Sori has been playing better but no production from C, 3B, 2B is killing the team.

 

[dabynsky]

i agree 2 is the right answer. Just tough to watch this team in the last week. We all knew though once Campy and LaHair come down to earth they have hard time scoring runs. Sori has been playing better but no production from C, 3B, 2B is killing the team.

Well while LaHair and Campana have cooled off we have gotten better production from LF and 3B in the past couple of weeks. Unforunately neither's production is anywhere close to what LaHair and Campana were providing. 2B is terrible because we don't have a player that is capable of being a starter and C is a little bit more excusable since we are on our 4th and 5th catchers at this point, though it was bad even when everyone was healthy.

I agree that it is hard to watch, but they are doing it the right way. It will get better, and it isn't like this team has no bright spots.

 

[Rice Cube]

Okay, sorry I bailed, had to eat and seminar and gym...anyway.

Cubs' season started on April 5. If you count the entire season (including off days and ASG which should count towards days of service, someone please check on that?) that's 26 + 31 + 30 + 31 + 31 + 30 + 3 = 182 days possible for the full season. A player must play 95% of the season to count as a full season (whether on active roster or on DL after call-up as he cannot be sent down while injured), so that means 173 days will give you the full year this season.

In the above post I said Rizzo had already accrued 68 days of service. That means they have to delay him so that he can only have 105 days of service of less.

That actually does coincide with my original estimate of June 22 or 23, which is when the Cubs are on the road in Arizona. This actually makes the most sense as Rizzo is 1. out of Chicagoland so is not as open to local fan scrutiny and 2. will have passed that cutoff such that you guarantee that extra year of service.

I don't know where ESPN or whoever is getting their info, but since Theo and Jed haven't said anything and Sveum's been wishy-washy about it, I'd suggest a wait-and-see approach. The Cubs can certainly, again, afford to waive that extra year of control, but why would they given how shitty this year's team is?

 

[Rice Cube]

Caveat is that the link I posted above was from 2010 when the max per season was 172 days, so I'm not sure if it's the same max or if they changed it. So adjust numbers accordingly if you wish to double-check what I said as I'm not an expert on MLB transactions, just going by what I'm seeing off Google for now.

 

[dabynsky]

No that looks good Rice. It might not be exactly right, but I think we can all agree that Rizzo will be called up. And it won't be til after they guarantee that extra year of control.

 

[Rice Cube]

I mean, other than Sveum sort of saying that MAYBE they'll call him up soon, has there been anything definitive? A lot of it still sounds speculative.

 

[dabynsky]

It is only because Sveum stated that the discussions would be starting soon about it.

 

[Rice Cube]

I guess they COULD just call him up for interleague and then send him down, but that seems like it would piss off a bunch of people.

 

[dabynsky]

I guess they COULD just call him up for interleague and then send him down, but that seems like it would piss off a bunch of people.

Again I don't think the union really has any leverage in the situation, just like with Liriano a few years back. The only question is how would it affect Rizzo. I doubt it would really damage his psyche too much especially if Theo and Jed were up front with him with the callup that it would be just for interleague.

 

[Rice Cube]

Again I don't think the union really has any leverage in the situation, just like with Liriano a few years back. The only question is how would it affect Rizzo. I doubt it would really damage his psyche too much especially if Theo and Jed were up front with him with the callup that it would be just for interleague.

I'm cool with that if they could get away with it. That's 12 days of service up until 6/22, then they can send him back down until 7/13 to make up for it. He can debut at home against the D'Backs. Or if they want him to debut on the road, against the Cards. Presumably Brett Jackson figures his shit out and they can both be called up at the same time, and by then DeJesus and/or Soriano will have been moved.

I do like the idea of DeJesus being the CF to accommodate LaHair but that would be one shitty outfield defense.

 

[dabynsky]

I'm cool with that if they could get away with it. That's 12 days of service up until 6/22, then they can send him back down until 7/13 to make up for it. He can debut at home against the D'Backs. Or if they want him to debut on the road, against the Cards. Presumably Brett Jackson figures his shit out and they can both be called up at the same time, and by then DeJesus and/or Soriano will have been moved.

I do like the idea of DeJesus being the CF to accommodate LaHair but that would be one shitty outfield defense.

I think that would rival the old power OF alignment under Riggleman of Glenallen Hill, Sammy Sosa, and Henry Rodriguez for defensive awesomeness.