Rookie Camp

[the canadian dream]

I think burnt out is better than playing without heart. They all had heart. They were all not satisfied with how they played and how the season ended.

THIS!!!



"burnt out" is the perfect description of the team last year.



People tend to forget also that the 3 of the 4 teams the Hawks played in their cup run were not the softest teams in the league either. San Jose was pretty soft. Vancouver/Nashville/Flyers. Anyone else going to go through best of 7 series with these 3 teams and come out feeling like a ball of cherries during the offseason? Don't think so. Add on all the post cup press functions the complete inability to have a private life and having to get back to the rink in a couple months (lets not forget having to travel to Europe to start the season). And yah..teams burnt out to start the season. Mentally and physically drained!!! They may be pro hockey players but they are also human beings..not robots.



Add onto that adjusting to new players (and there were a lot), unrealistic expectations from the hockey world, 1st real season under new management, key injuries, a really shitty schedule to start the season, some personal issues with individual players? Recipe for a tough season.



It even happened to the Flyers it just pronounced itself later in the season than it did for the Hawks. Later in the second half of the season and into the playoffs the Flyers looked done.



It's going to happen to the Canucks and it's going to happen to the Bruins. Esp the Canucks as they are beat to shit after that cup race and they must be still in a state of massive disappointment and frustration..and not sure if they are the head strong team to use that to their advantage...GOOD!!! hehehehehe. Bruins might be like the Flyers last year. They may start of strong but they may taper off later in the season.



With all that said...I am sure someone will bring up the "Red Wings" factor. As the Red Wings always seem to be the go to team to counter these sort of theories. The Red Wings are an enigma. That's all I have to say about them.

 

[PatrickShart]

Well...Seabrook, Toews, Sharp, Kopecky all had career years. Kane averaged a ppg and Campbell matched his high +/- in about 65gms



So...I don't know how they would be considered playing lame last year, but I guess I'm just "spinning" that too. That was a figment of my imagination.

 

[PatrickShart]

No..the Wings aren't as much of an enigma, but a group of players that have played together for 6+ years.



Look at the core roster and how long they've been in DET -

Cleary - 6yrs

Datsyuk - 9yrs

Draper - 17yrs

Franzen - 6yrs

Holmstrom - 14yrs

Kronwall - 7yrs

Lidstrom - 19yrs

Osgood - 14yrs

Zetteberg - 8yrs

Filpula - 5yrs



Then..have had..

Rafalski - 4yrs

Hudler - 4yrs

Bertuzzi - 2yrs

Stuart - 3yrs



So...12 of their players have played minimum 4yrs together.



Lets look at the Hawks, by comparison.

Sharp - 6yrs

Keith - 6yrs

Seabrook - 6yrs



Then...you have..

Toews - 4yrs

Kane - 4yrs

Bolland - 4yrs



Hawks have had 6 players that have played together for more than 4 years.

 

[R K]

I don't think Lame is good either, other than beat up. In that respect Lame = Being beat up is right.



I'd expect a different level of drive this year. Infact it will surprise me if there isn't. From all the Vets on this team. Career years from several.

 

[the canadian dream]

Good point PMX. Lets also not forget that the Hawks the year prior to the cup year also made it to the Western conference final. Even that probably played into this last years exhaustion to some degree. AND key roster players also played additional physical emotionally driven games in the Olympics.



These things add up. This team and the core players haven't had a real off season in 2 years up to now. Kane and Toews alone have never experienced one at the NHL level until this season. Those 2 have been publicity whores since being here. Poster boys for turning this franchise around..never a day off.



Hossa!!! That guys hasn't had one for what? 5 years? He was clearly the king of the burnt outers and for good reason.



I agree with RK I suspect career numbers again from some of our guys.

 

[Kerfuffle]

As far as all they had to do was win the last game. Take a look at who it was against. Take a look at how easy it is in any sport - let alone hockey to win back to back in a home and home series - against one of the best teams in the league, nonetheless. After the Hawks thoroughly embarassed them the nite before.



And please tell me, how the fact being they were 2 points out of 4th place - is "spinning". Its not true? It didn't happen? So being the 8th place team...they didn't earn the playoffs by having more points in an 82 game season than the 9th place team? 2 more wins...was that real or fake?

The Hawks controlled their own destiny and could have secured a playoff spot by beating Detroit - they didn't and it was a major disappointment. Also disappointing was knowing that in order to get in, we had to back-in, and hope for other teams to lose. And with Minnesota rolling out a bunch of kids and basically 'mailing in' their last game it didn't look good for the Hawks. But for god knows what reason Dallas couldn't close it out.



I told you above that your assertion about being 2 points out of 4th place was true - just as true as the fact that we backed in. If teams #1-#8 all finished the season with 90 points and the Hawks had 89, guess what? We still end up in 9th place and out of the playoffs - even though by your logic we only missed winning the conference by 1 point. At end of the season the ONLY thing that matters is your final slot - you don't make it, tough shit you're out. No excuses (unless you're Vancouver).

 

[Kerfuffle]

I dont know why I bother.



Do all the new players matter, or do you expect a 50% roster turnover to click right away?

Giving key minutes to rookies - Crawford, Bickell, Skille, Dowell, Leddy - 20% of your roster? How many rookies played the year before? Let me know...please. Open your eyes and spin me how many rookies were on the team the year before

How about career years for - Kopecky ,Sharp, Toews, Seabrook, Campbell (+/-)..or Kane being one of about a dozen players in the whole NHL that averaged a PPG..guess they're hearts weren't into it?

This team scored 10 less goals (not counting EN goals)than the previous Stanley Cup winning team - without any heart or not caring.



There were 5 players that ended the 08-09 (Havlat, Barker, Walker, Pahlsson, Khabibulin) that didn't start the season the next year. Only Havlat the top 6 forward - who was replaced and upgraded by Hossa.



From the end of 09-10 team to the start of 10-11 team - 9 key players - Byfuglien, Versteeg, Ladd, Sopel, Eager, Madden, Burish, Fraser, Niemi.



As far as "backing in"....the season is 82 games long. You get points in every game. Same amount whether its game 15 (right about when you gave up on the team) or game 82. Any way you spin it. Show me or prove to me that some other game means more than others or you get more points in another game.



Now...show me some facts - some absolutes - that the team's heart wasn't into it. Show me how they didn't care.

I am well aware of all the players we lost and going into this season I thought we would be a good team but not great - and I was right. Our core is excellent and very young. And I knew that rounding out the roster with a bunch of kids just to fill slots and stay under the cap would be a difficult mix for the season. What I did NOT expect and what disappointed me the most was seeing our core at times 'take the night off' or just not bring it. The best way to say it was we were being out-intensified. The hunger and grit that I say in their play the year before was not always there. I saw it with the White Sox as well in 2006. It is hard to keep that killer mentality after you have won it all. No one can stay on top forever. You can throw stats out all day that show point totals were the same or greater than the championship season. I will tell you from what I witnessed out there that we were not playing at the same level as the year before. Keith and Seabs were not the dynamic duo of the prior season. Kane had his hangover incident in January that disappointed me. Hossa wasn't Hossa. And on and on. First 3 games against Vancouver in the first round we played dead out there. Then we showed signs of life and the old Hawks were back for the next 4 games. That was a nice way to end the season and gives me hope for this upcoming season.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

"Oi vey!"

 

[PatrickShart]

Ok. You convinced me. They had no heart and TMZ's reporting of Kane being hungover....Kane should be ashamed for disappointing all of us and hopefully his long stint in rehab helps.



Regardless of what the numbers, stats and facts show, their 97pts with a new roster and new roles and falling VAN 0-3 in the series was an embarassment. Kopecky "faking" his injury in game 1, Bolland nursing his concussion...Brouwer playing with his bad shoulder, Bickell lacerating his wrist in game 2 and Seabrook showing lack of heart by not playing after Torres hit - all proved to your fact that this team didn't give the commitment to compete at a high enough level. Smith, Kruger, Leddy...all should have stepped up and done more in VAN - regardless of their experience. It was an epic failure and hopefully, they play up to yours...or 'our' standards this season. Otherwise, by November...we'll know what we have.

 

[LordKOTL]

I don't think Lame is good either, other than beat up. In that respect Lame = Being beat up is right.



I'd expect a different level of drive this year. Infact it will surprise me if there isn't. From all the Vets on this team. Career years from several.

I agree with a lot of what you said--especially on the "burnt out" part...I just think Keith showed it by not making smart plays rather than being gassed. I also think that Keith should make a huge rebound next year after healing up, along with a lot of the other guys.

 

[R K]

"Oi vey!"

HAHAHAHA! Couldn't have said it any better!

 

[R K]

Ok. You convinced me. They had no heart and TMZ's reporting of Kane being hungover....Kane should be ashamed for disappointing all of us and hopefully his long stint in rehab helps.



Regardless of what the numbers, stats and facts show, their 97pts with a new roster and new roles and falling VAN 0-3 in the series was an embarassment. Kopecky "faking" his injury in game 1, Bolland nursing his concussion...Brouwer playing with his bad shoulder, Bickell lacerating his wrist in game 2 and Seabrook showing lack of heart by not playing after Torres hit - all proved to your fact that this team didn't give the commitment to compete at a high enough level. Smith, Kruger, Leddy...all should have stepped up and done more in VAN - regardless of their experience. It was an epic failure and hopefully, they play up to yours...or 'our' standards this season. Otherwise, by November...we'll know what we have.

I just fucking threw up. Failures were from 1996-2004 and still as we were discussing the other day, I'd take some of those times back in a heart beat. Most of these dumb asses never paid attention to the team. So their dumb opinions were never thrown out there. Ignorance is Bliss I guess. Or just ignorance.

 

[R K]

I agree with a lot of what you said--especially on the "burnt out" part...I just think Keith showed it by not making smart plays rather than being gassed. I also think that Keith should make a huge rebound next year after healing up, along with a lot of the other guys.

I agree and I think Seabrook fit into that category as well. ALthough Seabrook seemed to improve in my opinion as the season went along.



The Cup players, along with the assinine schedule, really put them being the curve. They lost the ONE GOAL games instead of winning them. How many games did this "disappointing team" lose by one goal? I can only remember 2 games they were blown out. One major collapse, ie Dallas.

 

[howcho]

I work with a guy that is friends with Duncan Keith. He relayed to me some thoughts that Keith had.



Keith had said that the off season was brutal. With appearances all over the place, even starting some Nascar race. None of the Hawks where on their work out routines. Their training regimines where greatly reduced.



I think with the longer off season this year, the boys will come back much stronger and healthier. Plus our young guys will have had another year to add some weight and muscle.

 

[LordKOTL]

I agree and I think Seabrook fit into that category as well. ALthough Seabrook seemed to improve in my opinion as the season went along.



The Cup players, along with the assinine schedule, really put them being the curve. They lost the ONE GOAL games instead of winning them. How many games did this "disappointing team" lose by one goal? I can only remember 2 games they were blown out. One major collapse, ie Dallas.

...and as much as I hate to bring this up, let's not forget we should have WON one of those games regular season games against Vancouver, no thanks to the officiating and the impromptu breakdance routine of Lou when Brou almost nudged him.



Either way, I think Keith more than any player will have a very high bar set for him next year. I personally think he will exceed it. Seabrook, as the year wore on, I think played very nicely into his new contract.

 

[R K]

True but on the other hand we should have lost a couple of those we won.