Sam Smith says get Joe Johnson

[Shakes]

JJ already left the Suns (where he'd have had a real chance at a championship) to go to the Hawks for the money, I think it's pretty likely if the Hawks wont pay the max he'll go to someone who will.

 

[Shakes]

clonetrooper264 wrote:

Johnson would be good to have...just not at the max. As someone else said, 1st priority is a low post player (ie Bosh, Amare, Boozer) then go for the 2 spot. I still like the possibility of Ray Allen though, because he won't cost the max and his shooting (while declining from his elite form) is still pretty darn good at the age of 35 or whatever. Rose, Allen, Deng, Bosh, Noah looks better than Rose, Johnson, Deng, Gibson, Noah...or at least it does to me.

I doubt we have enough money left over after a max deal to get Ray Allen. The projected cap leaves us with 5 million (give or take a few dollars) which I don't think gets it done.

If we sign someone for less than the max then Ray Allen is an option, but if we're signing Bosh for the max then I think we need to set our sights lower (Korver or Salmons would be my targets).

 

[clonetrooper264]

Shakes wrote:

clonetrooper264 wrote:

Johnson would be good to have...just not at the max. As someone else said, 1st priority is a low post player (ie Bosh, Amare, Boozer) then go for the 2 spot. I still like the possibility of Ray Allen though, because he won't cost the max and his shooting (while declining from his elite form) is still pretty darn good at the age of 35 or whatever. Rose, Allen, Deng, Bosh, Noah looks better than Rose, Johnson, Deng, Gibson, Noah...or at least it does to me.

I doubt we have enough money left over after a max deal to get Ray Allen. The projected cap leaves us with 5 million (give or take a few dollars) which I don't think gets it done.

If we sign someone for less than the max then Ray Allen is an option, but if we're signing Bosh for the max then I think we need to set our sights lower (Korver or Salmons would be my targets).

Korver or Salmons would be good too. As long as Salmons doesn't play like crap again anyway.

 

[pinkizdead]

no. no no. you dont sign salmon up right. you have a hand shake agreement with another team to sign salmons, then you trade for him with 2 months left in the season.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Interesting huh? :huh:


nba.com wrote:

I thought it was at least 50-50 Johnson would re-sign with the Hawks until his comments after Game 3. He has proven himself to be in that second tier of stars, which is fine. But his lack of leadership and three years of mostly dreadful playoff performances have damaged his reputation. Even worse, Johnson seems to have checked out mentally. He still has value on the open market. There are enough teams out there who are looking for a scorer and have money to spend. A sign-and-trade could net a nice player in return: whether a shooting guard, point guard or starting caliber center. Among the backup options at shooting guard, one name that already has popped up as a possible replacement is Milwaukee’s John Salmons. He obviously isn’t the scorer Johnson is, but he averaged nearly 20 per game in Milwaukee after a trade from Chicago this year.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/05/11/whats-next-for-johnson-boozer/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

 

[Bullsman24]

houheffna wrote:

A Ray Allen type is probably what complements Rose best. That's why when you put Ben Gordon next to Rose, we had such a dangerous backcourt to stop offensively. At least on the offensive end, the two players were perfect complements.

I think we should get a big man (Bosh, Boozer, or Amare) and then go after Ray Allen with the remainder of our cap space, and try to win it all next year with a lineup of:

PG-Derrick Rose/Kirk Hinrich
SG-Ray Allen/Kirk Hinrich
SF-Luol Deng/James Johnson
PF-Chris Bosh/Taj Gibson
C- Joakim Noah/Brad Miller

That team looks pretty legit as a title contender to me.

Well Joe is younger, and can get you a legit 20ppg plus. He has the ability to drive, post, and defensively I believe he is a better option than Allen. He expands your options. 6'8" and 220 pounds is a very good size for a shooting guard. Allen is going to be 35 this summer...he is a good player but for how long?

And no, that team doesn't win you aF championship...you put Joe in the backcourt and you have a better chance...

20ppg scorer who's young and shoot and drive huh...didn't we just let one of those go...?

 

[houheffna]

20ppg scorer who's young and shoot and drive huh...didn't we just let one of those go...?

WHO are you talking about? Salmons? Gordon? Johnson is better than BOTH of those players...is there even an argument?

 

[??? ??????]

There is no use signing Joe Johnson. All signing Joe Johnson does is make us the Atlanta Hawks, a team that is good, but not good enough to win against the elite. We could have been the Atlanta Hawks, only with a longer window of Atlanta Hawkism if we had just kept Ben Gordon and John Salmons, maybe even a little better.

You don't give the max to a playoff choker like Joe Johnson. His regular season scoring efficiency isn't even all that great. You let the Knicks sign him to the max, and anchor themselves to more years of mediocrity.

If the Bulls are hell bent on signing a wing player, than sign Rudy ***. At least we would be getting the best years of ***'s career, which wouldn't really be the case with Johnson, who I think will go into a sharp decline about 3 years into his new contract.

The Bulls should really be looking at Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudemire, and Chris Bosh as the only players they would be willing to give the max. Carlos Boozer is worthy of the max with his play, but you have to worry about him getting injured too.

But if it comes down to Joe Johnson being the Bulls' option, than they need to pass. They have cap space, they just need to be creative, making some trades, or you know...just overpay Rudy ***...because that will still be better than signing Joe Johnson for the max.

 

[houheffna]

I am not at all interested in giving JJ the max...from what the rumors are, the Bulls are NOT interested in him. That said, JJ is better than any shooting guard we have had here since Jordan.

And by the way...WHY is Johnson a playoff choker? How can you talk about how two opposing teammates double BG in his hotel room on the way to the stadium but not notice that stopping Joe Johnson has been the gameplan against the Hawks for years now? Others have to step up...Cavs did it last year to Johnson (actually the same thing the Celtics are doing to Lebron...) and the Magic did it this year. JJ alone gets you nowhere near a championship. Bosh and JJ? Possibly...

 

[??? ??????]

houheffna wrote:

I am not at all interested in giving JJ the max...from what the rumors are, the Bulls are NOT interested in him. That said, JJ is better than any shooting guard we have had here since Jordan.

And by the way...WHY is Johnson a playoff choker? How can you talk about how two opposing teammates double BG in his hotel room on the way to the stadium but not notice that stopping Joe Johnson has been the gameplan against the Hawks for years now? Others have to step up...Cavs did it last year to Johnson (actually the same thing the Celtics are doing to Lebron...) and the Magic did it this year. JJ alone gets you nowhere near a championship. Bosh and JJ? Possibly...

Over their 2 most recent playoff appearances:

Ben Gordon averaged 20.4 points on 58.4 TS% and 24.3 points on 53.6 TS%.

Joe Johnson is averaging 16.4 points on 47.9 TS% and 17.9 points on 45.3 TS%.

Joe Johnson is the definition of a playoff choker. Those stats are pathetic, and are the only explanation needed for why the Hawks struggle so much in the playoffs.

 

[houheffna]

Over their 2 most recent playoff appearances:

Ben Gordon averaged 20.4 points on 58.4 TS% and 24.3 points on 53.6 TS%.

Joe Johnson is averaging 16.4 points on 47.9 TS% and 17.9 points on 45.3 TS%.

Joe Johnson is the definition of a playoff choker. Those stats are pathetic, and are the only explanation needed for why the Hawks struggle so much in the playoffs.

That is NOT the only explanation needed, I gave the explanation.

Here is Sam Smith with his explanation...

" You can assume Johnson, who was singled out for much of the booing, was frustrated. He shot three of 15 as the Magic concentrated on him, which isn’t very hard with the worse offense in the NBA. I don’t know why Vinny Del Negro got so much grief about his offense while Atlanta runs this ridiculous, game long series of isolations that even the players abhor. Johnson is shooting 28.6 percent for the Magic series as the Magic is up 3-0. Johnson opened the playoffs averaging 25.6 points, 5.3 rebounds and six assists the first four games. Since Atlanta makes few, if any, adjustments, opponents have loaded up on Johnson. He’s averaging 13.3 points and 4.3 assists since Game 4 against Milwaukee. The notion is he’s cost himself money in free agency, but it would be a mistake to follow that thinking if you want to improve your team.

Put Johnson with a coach who runs an offense with weak side movement or off the ball and a point guard, and Johnson is back to being the 25 point scoring All-Star he’s been. During the regular season, teams cannot prepare as well and the Hawks score a lot in transition and open the court. The Bucks and Magic, with two of the league’s best coaches, easily figured out the Hawks."

I have no doubt that Joe Johnson is an allstar shooting guard. And I would rather have Johnson than any shooting guard not named Kobe or Wade. That said, just using stats and not seeing what happened in those games would explain your analysis.

 

[Shakes]

Teams never tried to stop Ben Gordon when he was on the Bulls. He was basically shooting open threes to put up his numbers.

*Homer voice* In case you can't tell I was being sarcastic.