Schwarber

[chibears55]

@TommyBirch: Kyle Schwarber finished the night 4-4 with a walk, 3 RBIs, a passed ball, an error, and allowed 2 stolen bases. #Cubs #PCL #MiLB

Here my thoughts on Schwarber. .

I dont know if he athletic enough to play LF, but if he to come up to play with cubs anytime soon its not going to be as a catcher..

I wish they would just let or make him play LF and see if he can handle it .. they could sure use his bat now

I do wonder though since their in no hurry to put him out there and allow him to continue to catch if their thinking of using him to pull off a trade..

 

[TC in Mississippi]

@TommyBirch: Kyle Schwarber finished the night 4-4 with a walk, 3 RBIs, a passed ball, an error, and allowed 2 stolen bases. #Cubs #PCL #MiLB

Here my thoughts on Schwarber. .

I dont know if he athletic enough to play LF, but if he to come up to play with cubs anytime soon its not going to be as a catcher..

I wish they would just let or make him play LF and see if he can handle it .. they could sure use his bat now

I do wonder though since their in no hurry to put him out there and allow him to continue to catch if their thinking of using him to pull off a trade..

I'd be stunned if Schwarber was traded. They love this kid. I haven't heard any concerns that he couldn't play LF but they want him to catch and they're not going to sacrifice that work for a season they don't care that much about. As far as bringing him up to play LF now all the projections I've seen have him projected at a lower WAR than Coghlan us projected for the rest of the season so not sure how that helps.

 

[CSF77]

Cogs is hitting .255. Schwarber would be back in Iowa hitting that low.

A bigger concern is Fowler hitting .239. That is unexceptable.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Cogs is hitting .255. Schwarber would be back in Iowa hitting that low.

A bigger concern is Fowler hitting .239. That is unexceptable.

Correct, but there are no alternatives to Fowler. They're stuck with him until the end of the year.

 

[CSF77]

Correct, but there are no alternatives to Fowler. They're stuck with him until the end of the year.

They have Alcantara. I'm not sure if he is better. Just a younger version of Fowler.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

I feel like Schwarber would get figured out and go through a long stretch of being worse than Coghlan

 

[TL1961]

They have Alcantara. I'm not sure if he is better. Just a younger version of Fowler.

I am biased when it comes to AA, but I think he'd be better. He was adapting to CF last year, and needs to learn the angles to take. But so does Fowler. At least AA would be getting better.

 

[beckdawg]

@TommyBirch: Kyle Schwarber finished the night 4-4 with a walk, 3 RBIs, a passed ball, an error, and allowed 2 stolen bases. #Cubs #PCL #MiLB

Here my thoughts on Schwarber. .

I dont know if he athletic enough to play LF, but if he to come up to play with cubs anytime soon its not going to be as a catcher..

I wish they would just let or make him play LF and see if he can handle it .. they could sure use his bat now

I do wonder though since their in no hurry to put him out there and allow him to continue to catch if their thinking of using him to pull off a trade..

This is literally the first bad game he's had defensively in Iowa. I read minor league reports on players nightly. My opinion is he is never going to be a full time catcher like say Yady is but then you probably don't really want that anyways. Yady gets the hell beat out of him every season and clearly the appeal of Schwarber is his bat to begin with. On the other hand, if Schwarber can play LF say 4 or 5 games a week and catch 1 or 2 games think how valuable that is for the team. Maddon went with 3 catcher this year largely because they didn't want to dump Castillo for nothing. However, the team line at the time was Maddon liked the ability to pinch hit for the C which is also probably some what true as well.

Even if Schwarber typically starts in LF he gives you the option to double switch later in game with the C. Additionally, as a L he gives you a C option to start when facing the favored match up pitching. Again, you can pull him out of C later in the game once the starter is gone and double switch with LF. It's about having the flexibility to play there more than that he is destined to play there. If you look at a lot of the guys they have drafted, versatility is a big thing. Obviously they didn't draft AA and Baez but because of other pick ups and their struggles we've seen AA in CF/2B/3B/SS(?) and Baez in SS/2B/3B and obviously some want to chuck him out in LF. Happ is playing CF now which surprised me a bit(in a good way) but he can also play both corners and maybe 2B. Bryant has played 3B and OF. It's honestly an interesting way to build depth in that you aren't always force to go one way with an injury.

As for why we're not seeing Schwarber in LF, they clearly think that's a non-factor for him and want to focus on him being a C which is obviously something harder. He's more athletic than people seem to think. He has 33 doubles and 4 triples in 597 minor league PAs as well as another triple in 23 MLB PAs. Bryant had 49 doubles and 3 triples in 773 PAs in the minors. So, clearly he runs similarly to Bryant despite his size and few have concerns about Bryant in the OF. Bryant's probably a more instinctual as he steals more bases but that has less to do with speed and more to do with reading the pitcher which is why Rizzo of all people leads the cubs with 12 SBs.

 

[chibears55]

I definitely dont see Schwarber catching and playing LF at same time..
Squatting a couple times a week will take it toll on those legs to make it a struggle running down balls in LF..

I think it just one or other for him, not both...

Until i see him playing in LF in AAA , they plan on him being a catcher... if so, unless they plan on trading montero this offseason ( i doubt they do ) .. i think their keeping his value up as a good hitting LH catcher for a possible trade..

 

[beckdawg]

I definitely dont see Schwarber catching and playing LF at same time..
Squatting a couple times a week will take it toll on those legs to make it a struggle running down balls in LF..

I think it just one or other for him, not both...

Until i see him playing in LF in AAA , they plan on him being a catcher... if so, unless they plan on trading montero this offseason ( i doubt they do ) .. i think their keeping his value up as a good hitting LH catcher for a possible trade..

I could be mistaken but I don't think this is as uncommon as you think. Pretty sure Ryan Doumit did this. There's likely others but he was the first that comes to mind. Additionally, I would take it the other way around. I think playing both would keep his legs fresher especially if he was swapped in say the 6th or 7th as part of a defensive switch moving to LF. Catching say 80-90 pitches once or twice a week shouldn't really be that taxing.

 

[chibears55]

I could be mistaken but I don't think this is as uncommon as you think. Pretty sure Ryan Doumit did this. There's likely others but he was the first that comes to mind. Additionally, I would take it the other way around. I think playing both would keep his legs fresher especially if he was swapped in say the 6th or 7th as part of a defensive switch moving to LF. Catching say 80-90 pitches once or twice a week shouldn't really be that taxing.

Doumit was a utility player. ..

If Schwarber going to be an everyday player he not going to be bouncing back n forth between OF and C. ..

 

[beckdawg]

Doumit was a utility player. ..

If Schwarber going to be an everyday player he not going to be bouncing back n forth between OF and C. ..

Well I'd argue what I'm suggesting is him being a LF with options. It wouldn't be the first time Maddon had a utility player starting daily at a different position(Zobrist). Either way, it's not a negative. All I'm saying is he's a left handed bat who might be able to play passable catcher. Let's say the cubs run out with 2 catchers who are righties normally. Schwarber gives you the option to do something different if your facing someone particularly tough on rightes even if it's only once a week.

And who knows, are we seriously doubting their scouting which seems to suggest that they think he is a C? By in large they've been rather spot on and the only reason any of us on this board are trying to move him away is because some other scouts have negative things to say about his defense. Ultimately I'm totally unconcerned. A bat like his appears to be you find a place in the lineup for. I may have thrown this out in this topic or some where else but Manny Ramirez was an absolute train wreck in LF defensively but his bat was good enough that they made due. So, as long as he is hitting who cares where he ends up? If we're talking about Vogelbach then fine it's a concern but even prior to the draft many viewed Schwarber as a LF/1B and some don't even view Vogelbach as a 1B. There's a clear distinction between the two. A lot of the people who didn't like Schwarber's defense prior to the draft have come out and said that he's better behind the plate than they expected(though it's obviously still not a sure thing).

Also, Schwarber has made comments to the effect that it pisses him off people don't think he can catch. Again, maybe he ultimately can't but he seems pretty determined to put the work in. And at the end of the day he doesn't have to be Yady Molina back there. If he ends up being a Castro level C his bat more than makes it a wash what you lose defensively. Piazza was arguably the worst C in the league defensively during his career and from 24-33 his worst season was 3.4 fWAR and he averaged 6.4 fWAR per season which is truly absurd when you consider 4 catchers last season were above 3 fWAR(Lucroy 6.2, Posey 5.6, Yan Gomes 4.6, and Salvador Perez 3.1). Schwarber probably wont be that good of a hitter but even if he's a minimal 3 fWAR per season he's a top 5 catcher. That's why it's worth totally exhausting every chance he can play at C.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Doumit was a utility player. ..

If Schwarber going to be an everyday player he not going to be bouncing back n forth between OF and C. ..

From everything I've heard and read between the lines this is exactly what's going to happen. I think they'll make a final decision at the end of the year as to whether he's a catcher and if he is I think they'll have a super sub that will play LF a couple days a week with Schwarber getting 2 days behind the plate and learning from Ross and Montero. Next offseason they'll likely trade Montero and Schwarber can take over full time in 2017. There are many in the Cubs organization that think this kid is ultimately their best hitter. They will make this work anyway they have to and Maddon is really the perfect guy to do it.

 

[chibears55]

Well I'd argue what I'm suggesting is him being a LF with options. It wouldn't be the first time Maddon had a utility player starting daily at a different position(Zobrist). Either way, it's not a negative. All I'm saying is he's a left handed bat who might be able to play passable catcher. Let's say the cubs run out with 2 catchers who are righties normally. Schwarber gives you the option to do something different if your facing someone particularly tough on rightes even if it's only once a week.

And who knows, are we seriously doubting their scouting which seems to suggest that they think he is a C? By in large they've been rather spot on and the only reason any of us on this board are trying to move him away is because some other scouts have negative things to say about his defense. Ultimately I'm totally unconcerned. A bat like his appears to be you find a place in the lineup for. I may have thrown this out in this topic or some where else but Manny Ramirez was an absolute train wreck in LF defensively but his bat was good enough that they made due. So, as long as he is hitting who cares where he ends up? If we're talking about Vogelbach then fine it's a concern but even prior to the draft many viewed Schwarber as a LF/1B and some don't even view Vogelbach as a 1B. There's a clear distinction between the two. A lot of the people who didn't like Schwarber's defense prior to the draft have come out and said that he's better behind the plate than they expected(though it's obviously still not a sure thing).

Also, Schwarber has made comments to the effect that it pisses him off people don't think he can catch. Again, maybe he ultimately can't but he seems pretty determined to put the work in. And at the end of the day he doesn't have to be Yady Molina back there. If he ends up being a Castro level C his bat more than makes it a wash what you lose defensively. Piazza was arguably the worst C in the league defensively during his career and from 24-33 his worst season was 3.4 fWAR and he averaged 6.4 fWAR per season which is truly absurd when you consider 4 catchers last season were above 3 fWAR(Lucroy 6.2, Posey 5.6, Yan Gomes 4.6, and Salvador Perez 3.1). Schwarber probably wont be that good of a hitter but even if he's a minimal 3 fWAR per season he's a top 5 catcher. That's why it's worth totally exhausting every chance he can play at C.

My whole original thought is ...

If their leaving him behind the plate to catch every game, unless they plan on trading montero this offseason ( I doubt it ) then what other reason to continue to catch him unless it to keep his value high for a trade..

If he going to come up and play LF, then start playing him there in Iowa.. thing is he hasn't played out there since he got to AA last yr..


So,their not giving any indication their planning on playing him in LF at all.. why im thinking he could be a trade candidate this off season unless it montero they trade..

Doubt they carry 2 LH catchers or make either the back up..

 

[TL1961]

Well I'd argue what I'm suggesting is him being a LF with options. It wouldn't be the first time Maddon had a utility player starting daily at a different position(Zobrist). Either way, it's not a negative. All I'm saying is he's a left handed bat who might be able to play passable catcher. Let's say the cubs run out with 2 catchers who are righties normally. Schwarber gives you the option to do something different if your facing someone particularly tough on rightes even if it's only once a week.

And who knows, are we seriously doubting their scouting which seems to suggest that they think he is a C? By in large they've been rather spot on and the only reason any of us on this board are trying to move him away is because some other scouts have negative things to say about his defense. Ultimately I'm totally unconcerned. A bat like his appears to be you find a place in the lineup for. I may have thrown this out in this topic or some where else but Manny Ramirez was an absolute train wreck in LF defensively but his bat was good enough that they made due. So, as long as he is hitting who cares where he ends up? If we're talking about Vogelbach then fine it's a concern but even prior to the draft many viewed Schwarber as a LF/1B and some don't even view Vogelbach as a 1B. There's a clear distinction between the two. A lot of the people who didn't like Schwarber's defense prior to the draft have come out and said that he's better behind the plate than they expected(though it's obviously still not a sure thing).

Also, Schwarber has made comments to the effect that it pisses him off people don't think he can catch. Again, maybe he ultimately can't but he seems pretty determined to put the work in. And at the end of the day he doesn't have to be Yady Molina back there. If he ends up being a Castro level C his bat more than makes it a wash what you lose defensively. Piazza was arguably the worst C in the league defensively during his career and from 24-33 his worst season was 3.4 fWAR and he averaged 6.4 fWAR per season which is truly absurd when you consider 4 catchers last season were above 3 fWAR(Lucroy 6.2, Posey 5.6, Yan Gomes 4.6, and Salvador Perez 3.1). Schwarber probably wont be that good of a hitter but even if he's a minimal 3 fWAR per season he's a top 5 catcher. That's why it's worth totally exhausting every chance he can play at C.

A bad LF vs a good or average LF affects far fewer plays than a bad catcher does. a "passable" catcher is not a winning formula. It would be nice if he actually became a good catcher. But if they "put up with him" at catcher to get his bat in the lineup, it's a huge mistake. Defense is ten times more important at catcher than offense. They know this. It is why they knew Castillo had to go.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

A bad LF vs a good or average LF affects far fewer plays than a bad catcher does. a "passable" catcher is not a winning formula. It would be nice if he actually became a good catcher. But if they "put up with him" at catcher to get his bat in the lineup, it's a huge mistake. Defense is ten times more important at catcher than offense. They know this. It is why they knew Castillo had to go.

I was listening to a baseball discussion recently that posited that of the two most important defensive positions, SS and C, that you could sacrifice one for offense but not both. That would explain why the Cubs brass insist Schwarber is a C and Russell is a SS to some degree in that the couldn't have Castro at SS with Schwarber at C. Plus I think the key for Schwarber are for mediocre basic skills with above average framing.

 

[CSF77]

Too early to tell. I believe they promote him if they are in the hunt. I could say the same with Baez and Alcantara. I see them loading up for a play off run.

If Richards pans out it takes away the need to lose talent this year. That is win/win. That opens up the offseason to make a long term commitment. Again another win/win.

I would rather have them make decisions based on putting the best D out there.

Thinking outside of the box: Soler came in as a CF. so move Bryant to RF. Schwarber to LF. Use Alcantara to move them around. Baez at 3B. They then do not have to add payroll. This giving more resource to make a run at Price.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Too early to tell. I believe they promote him if they are in the hunt. I could say the same with Baez and Alcantara. I see them loading up for a play off run.

If Richards pans out it takes away the need to lose talent this year. That is win/win. That opens up the offseason to make a long term commitment. Again another win/win.

I would rather have them make decisions based on putting the best D out there.

Thinking outside of the box: Soler came in as a CF. so move Bryant to RF. Schwarber to LF. Use Alcantara to move them around. Baez at 3B. They then do not have to add payroll. This giving more resource to make a run at Price.

Len Kasper has said several times that he would not be surprised to see Bryant moved to CF for a couple of years if necessary so I think I'd expect him there before Soler.

 

[Diehardfan]

A note on Schwarber....he did go 4 for 4 and drive in a couple but he caught the game and had a throwing error and a passed ball.

 

[CSF77]

Len Kasper has said several times that he would not be surprised to see Bryant moved to CF for a couple of years if necessary so I think I'd expect him there before Soler.

That was based off of the angles the ball goes when hooking and slicing. CF plays more strait.